The Desperation and Dangers of the Far-Right Extreme Evangelical Sub-Culture

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

This really opened my eyes as to some of the “debates” I have here on ATS. Some of my favorites to debate are the birthers. But I realized last night that I have this idea that if I present enough facts, someone will see them… I now realize that facts DO NOT MATTER in the least to these people. Their FAITH does. Faith that Obama was born elsewhere. Anywhere. Faith that he is a usurper. Faith that he is the Antichrist. And faith that what Glenn Beck says is the Truth…

Paranoia comes from all directions. Your fear of these people is akin to their fear of 'Liberals'.

"To reject facts as a matter of faith" is a ridiculous statement. First and foremost, to generalize the entire subculture of people into one monolithic group is erroneous. Second, the statement is an attempt to discredit anyone who dissents against our current regime.

Example: I am a Libertarian. I have gone to a tea party event, and I have many criticisms of Obama, and I have an audience (at the event) that is receptive to free market principles. I am less like the people Shaeffer describes than most democrats.
For the record, I was active against the Bush regime as well.

QUOTE FROM DBATES

Agreed. The actual number of evangelical "birther" nuts are a small minority. They're just the ones that scream the loudest.

They may be loud, but they aren't the loudest. They are just highlighted in bright pink highlighter by the Media and our Administration as a 'cross section' of the tea party movement to discredit the people. I followed an NPR reporter for and hour and a half this past Saturday, and witnessed this first hand. She didn't want to learn why those people were their, she wanted to find and interview the most ridiculous people there.

FROM THE OP in reference to how many people it takes to say something to make a blanket statement about an entire group.

I don't know what the numbers are, but all it takes is one.

For the OP and all in favor of our governments current goals.

As with the few lunatics on the right, there is paranoia and fear from the left as well as a liberal dose of faith. As Whitie McRedstate says Obama is a usurper, the OP and many others refuse to look at the debate and have Faith that the Administration is using sound economics.

John Maynard Keynes is like the Pat Robertson of the left and his ideas are more dangerous and widespread than that which the OP fears.


... forget the crazy people, lets start an actual debate in this country. Lets talk monetary policy, not BS.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


This guy has been on Rachel Maddow a couple of times before, he's good. This guy doesn't get alot of people attacking him because in essence he was one of the people in this same culture that got out of it. He knows there SOP because he used to do it. He even made another comment which I also agree with is that many of these individuals are so concerned about the rapture and going to heaven that they don't care about this world and see it as a means to get to heaven. When he said the changing village life to suit the village idiot was dead on. That is how many of the people today in the US who are in this sub-culture and other ones act like. They think that everyone should kowtow to their wishes but not take into account somebody elses or the group as a whole. I think I'm going to use that quote as my signature, You don't want to change village life to suit the village idiot.

I was raised in a fundamentalist family. I thought people like you could be reasoned with. I was wrong

[edit on 17-9-2009 by Angus123]

How are you trying to reason anything? You purposely used a couple of outrageous claims believed by maybe 10 people in this country and I said you were ignorant to Christian beliefs. Oh well, I guess in your ignorance you call that reasoning. I call it desparation.

I like how you sidestepped proving your claim of liberal superiority by not telling me a single way in which you changed your liberal views when you saw you were wrong.

reply to post by calstorm


Do you really think they would mandate that? I mean who convinced you that would happen? Do you think everyone that has children under the health care plan would be set up to see a life values instructor once a week? I dont think so. Its an optional deal that may benefit some. Lets face it, some uneducated low-income family's are confused at what to do with there children. Most are single mothers left in the dirt. Some just need some direction. Its not going to affect you.

Originally posted by DINSTAAR
Second, the statement is an attempt to discredit anyone who dissents against our current regime.

I voice dissent against the current government. Are you saying that I'm making an attempt to discredit myself?

FROM THE OP in reference to how many people it takes to say something to make a blanket statement about an entire group.

When I said "I don't know what the numbers are, but all it takes is one". I was referring to the number of "crazy people" it would take to "take out" the "usurper". I'm sorry if it wasn't clear.

For the OP and all in favor of our governments current goals.

I (the OP) am in favor of some and not of others. You might want to have a gander at some of your assumptions.

the OP and many others refuse to look at the debate and have Faith that the Administration is using sound economics.

I have looked long and hard at the debate(s). I have spoken, learned, researched and discussed the debate. I'm afraid you are mistaken in your judgments about me.

And I don't see why people have to discuss other members at all. If you want to make a point, make it.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Try living in a small farming community where most of the people are hardcore conservative Catholics. If you aren't one of them or in their little circle, life is Hell for you. Especially if you are open-minded. Most of the people here, and this is truth, are inbred. They are all related to each other and sleep with each other. Yet, they have the nerve to criticize others over something as simple as the clothes they wear or the music they listen to. What gets me is they are some of the most devious people I have ever met. They'll completely trash a person's social standing and humilate them in public...I've seen it numerous times...as long as they confess their sins a couple of times a week. They go in and confess, and are right back at the b/s before they even leave the church doors. These people are dangerous. More dangerous than any Muslim around here, I can tell ya that.

Originally posted by TheWake
reply to post by calstorm

 

Do you really think they would mandate that? I mean who convinced you that would happen? Do you think everyone that has children under the health care plan would be set up to see a life values instructor once a week? I dont think so. Its an optional deal that may benefit some. Lets face it, some uneducated low-income family's are confused at what to do with there children. Most are single mothers left in the dirt. Some just need some direction. Its not going to affect you.

You obviously don't know me because I AM a low income single mother, something I have been quite open about here. I have experienced life as being both middle class and low income. and I guarantee you low-income families get far more education on child rearing than a middle class family. In fact its shoved down your throat with a hot iron. You can't escape it if you gave birth in a hospital. I'm sorry but you are misinformed about low income people being uneducated. They are just educated "the governments way." which is not in the best interest of the children IMO.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


hey OP, just read my signature.. it says it all. These people are crazy and have held the US hostage for 8 yrs, we simply cannot afford to allow this to happen again under Obama's term -yet I fear it is. We are on the path to Idiocracy and Palin/Beck 2012. It's over.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

Ok ok, fine by me... just don't toss me in with Republicans. I hate Republicans. More than Democrats even.. for all the reasons you listed, but try as I might I still get tossed into the Republican circle everytime I critisize Obama.

I AM A CONSERVATIVE

Proud one, at that..

Though I see you have clarified your stance, conservatives still suffer identity theft by the Republicans..

A true republican wouldn't be against gay marriage, abortion, or seperation of church and state.. a true republican wouldn't support massive budgets, partake in pork spending, authorize wars of agression, inflate our currency and send our jobs over seas... these conservative imposters destroyed our governments image and reputation, not to mention our economy in our name, and they don't even stand for one god damn true conservative principle..

Which is why I simply say now I hate GOVERNMENT.. all government in general, liberal or conservative.. and what's ironic about that?

Ii get called a right wing racist extreemist for thinking that....

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
...some of the dangers of the fundamentalist/Anti-Obama/“birther” sub-culture. For example 35% of New Jersey "conservatives" say that Obama is or might be the Antichrist.

I love how you put those three titles into one convenient subculture.

Easier to make everyone look crazy, huh?

The rest of your post is just meaningless hysteria.

I'm quite certain you could produce similar polls about democrats and Bush. I'm shaking my head that even you don't remember how wide spread those accusations were.

Just google-news the terms 'Bush' and 'antcrist'. In less than 30 seconds, I found PLENTY of examples.

EDIT:

And here are a few examples:

Pro- Kerry Catholic Website Says Bush is the "Antichrist"
Is Bush the Antichrist?
Bush and Antichrist Mania
Pope fears Bush is antichrist, journalist contends

There's even a book on it: Is George Bush the Antichrist? (Paperback)

The Antichrist accusation apparently happens at EVERY presidency:

During the eight years of Clinton's presidency, I was repeatedly asked, "Chuck, do you think Bill Clinton is the antichrist?"

Link.

BH, What point were you making again???


[edit on 17-9-2009 by loam]

Man...I miss all those hippies! They were on to something. Just wish we could agree on two things only for right now just to save this country. That we are Americans and we want our freedom back. Only that for right now, and lets all join hands and peacefully assemble at the white house to agree as one big unit that enough is enough and let us be free. No special group no special favors and no guns needed and no angry voices or loud voices hurling any slurs at anyone! That is what it will take people. You know, that will convince them that we will not be lied to and we will be free. Demand that our military is returned to us so they can be free too. We will need their help also to fix this country before we loose it completely.
Then we shut the federal reserve bank, get free of foreign queen, kings, bankers and Big Daddy Pope...they do not run this country or own us the American people. They have their own countries to run or ruin and we will be no part of it and need all foreign military bases evacuated and bring those boys home! No more left, no more right, no more special favored people and no more elite people. Then God will say....well done....faith must always have action behind it and look out and watch him go...man he is awesome when we spread the love....then he can do some powerful fixing and mending to our broken spirits and hearts and wounded thinking.
So when do we do this?

reply to post by loam


Its like calling liberals godless communist anti american raging homosexuals.

I don't think everyone who voted for Obama would appreciate being labeled that way, just as I don't like being called a racist for not liking Obama's policies..

In the end, fools like Jimmy Carter severily damage the Democrats by saying crap like that.. personally I don't think I could ever vote Democrat again after they endorse bigots like Jimmy (I voted Dem for Congress against the sitting Rep)

It just creating further divides by insulting people, whether calling them racist or fundementalist..

Originally posted by bagari

I was raised in a fundamentalist family. I thought people like you could be reasoned with. I was wrong

[edit on 17-9-2009 by Angus123]

How are you trying to reason anything? You purposely used a couple of outrageous claims believed by maybe 10 people in this country and I said you were ignorant to Christian beliefs. Oh well, I guess in your ignorance you call that reasoning. I call it desparation.

I like how you sidestepped proving your claim of liberal superiority by not telling me a single way in which you changed your liberal views when you saw you were wrong.

LOL ... there's no point! You believe in an invisible sky daddy that rewards those he favors and tortures those he doesn't. I am all too familiar with your belief system, and as such I won't waste my time trying to reason with you anymore than I'd try to teach my cat how to drive.

Now make yourself a nice cup of tea, turn of Fox news and relax knowing that the world is a simple black and white place and someday your god is going to burn me for eternity and I'll soooooooo wish I listened to you.

reply to post by Rockpuck


It's remarkable to me how hypocritical it all is...

During eight years of the Bush administration it's becoming clear that many Obama supporters were simply taking notes and perfecting the art of intellectual dishonesty.

Originally posted by whatukno

The people that believe in the wealth of bull dunk that is spewed about Obama are the kinds of people that can get sucked into the Westborough Baptist Church.

What's really freaky about this video is at the end the newscaster announces, "I don't answer to you. I worship the god of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob." (odd, he left out Moses)

If we interviewed the newscaster about his religion, I think he would be just as dogmatic and bizarre as the woman who is depicted.

After all, the god of Abraham requires blood sacrifice and provides for "his" people by the spoils of war. The god of Abraham started a lot of division between people and his main theme is "kill everyone who does not think like you do". That's pretty much the point of all the wars in the OT.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

I'd also like to say that I think MSM "news" should STOP reporting on these people. Stop going after Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and birthers. That's not news. If you want something to report on, tell us what's going on in Iraq and Afghanistan. Tell us what Obama is doing to get us out of there. Tell us more about the health care bill, itself, not what the right and left are fighting over.

Going after Beck et al just makes them more popular. And makes them think that their movement actually means something. It gives them power... Leave them alone! Let them do their thing. Who cares?

Reminds me of the Dem Repub paradigm.

BH, I believe TPTB have done their job well. Do you think all the research done on human psyche has not been used. I have added a new component to my signature.

I believe they are doing a smash up job. To think of the Billions if not Trillions that have been spent on human conditioning and brainwashing just really pisses me off.

its just propaganda. liberal leftists hate republicans and they are attacking their core beliefs. which in turn means liberal leftist's are showing their true color. they are anti christian. They are spinning it to make it look like christian's are jihadist suicide bombers and that every christian is a possible threat to the country. Its just a political ploy to remove or discredit people who believe like rush limbaugh or glenn beck or shawn hannity who are moved by their faith which is what the country was founded upon. If the Liberals had their way they would exterminate us just like Hitler tried to do with the Jews. History is beginning to come full circle again.



Keeper

Here's the funny thing about this:

When MSNBC edited that video of a black guy holding an AR15 it did so in the hopes of driving the racism charge home. All the while they had missed the fact that this gun-toting individual was a right-wing evangelical zealot belonging to a church promoting the assassination of the POTUS. Not THAT is a story, and they missed it because it was easier to charge white gun owners as racists than to actually do any research.

The opposition to Obama is not just from the right and they certainly are not racists en masse, though there may be some, it is the fringe right wing that are religious zealots and racists, and they ARE dangerous. But I bet you anything, like Muslim extremism, it starts AT THE CHURCH.

This thread as expected is over-flowing with generalizations, hatred, and disdain for fellow humans.

I am neither democrat, republican or even American. I am not a fundamentalist christian or even Catholic. Yet I am open to the possibility that Obama may not be a natural born citizen.

While some may argue I have no reason or right to criticize or question the POTUS, I beg to differ. Lets just say I have been affected directly by the current condition of the US economy.

The people who make the most sense to me on these boards or otherwise are those who have or are questioning both political parties. Those who claim the right to be wacko's and nutjobs, should put a mirror up to their own democratic party and its red headed step children that are kept in the closet but who escape now and then.

The claims against the rightwing nuts of FOX, Rush et al should have the same choice words for the likes of MSNBC, CNN etc. You know ones who for some reason get weak in the knees when hearing the choir of angels, otherwise known as the voice of the Mes.. er President

Why can't both parties be questioned, why can't there be transparency for real on both sides. And before anyone replies..... But the right do this blah blah blah, just remember so to does the other side. It is a 2 headed coin, no matter what you will lose the toss. Timne for a new coin.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Anybody that watches the Rachel Maddow show for enlightenment is woefully lacking in perspective. She will give you one view of the world, that being the butt-kissing Obama view. If that is your cup of tea - and that is obviously the view of the OP - then go for it.

Don't expect the thinking population to respect the view of a network that completely ignored the ACORN scandals that are exploding in America.