The Desperation and Dangers of the Far-Right Extreme Evangelical Sub-Culture

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Like everything in this nation, sex and sensationalism sells and people get hook on it



[edit on 17-9-2009 by marg6043]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Antichrist is not a person. Antichrist is an attitude, or a teaching of anything in opposition to Christ. This has been going on since Christ was teaching here on earth.

Originally posted by Angus123
Liberals don't think that cavemen rode dinosaurs to church. They don't believe that witches have real magical powers the way christians do, and they certainly aren't afraid of them. (Just ask Sarah "prayer protection against witchcraft" Palin.) They worry about climate change because the silly notion that Jesus is going to come back and fix everything isn't much of an insurance policy to thinking men and women.

What's so sad is that people like yourself have no idea what real Christians believe in - or you wouldn't post your ignorance.

Originally posted by Angis123 Liberals don't view intellectualism as a vice. Liberals are not afraid to find that they have been wrong about an issue and change their views accordingly.

Being an "enlightened" liberal, please back up your claim. Tell me one instance of how you changed your liberal views about a subject when you found out you were wrong. My guess is that you can't.

Originally posted by ZombieOctopus
I'm glad someone posted this here, I read it first on Pharyngula and thought it hit the nail right on the head.

I rag on American Republicans but in reality there are two divisions of them. The lunatic Evangelical Conservatives and what are now essentially libertarians which probably make up 10-15% of the total Republican population. You could probably make a case for a third division; those who buy the lunatic Evangelical propaganda, but aren't themselves part of the religious movement.

The best way to deal with the crazies, be it the birthers, people who think Obama is the anti-christ or believe the world is 6000 years old for that matter, isn't debate because they reject logic, it's poison to them, but rather with laughter and marginalization. They need to know how ridiculous they sound, not get the false impression they have a case worth discussion.

No matter whether you think the evangelical concervatives are lunatics or not, one day we will know who is the lunatic. The evangelicals or the ones who seek to marginalize them. Seems like a 50/50 shot to me.

I don't know why people seem to hate the evangelical right so much. Other than an occasional wacko who wants to kill pro abortion activists, the evangelicals aren't trying to kill me.

However, many radical muslim zealots would love nothing more than to kill as many Americans as they could, including your children and mine. Where is the uproar over this? Why aren't people concerned about this radical group? Could it be that it isn't politically correct to marginalize radical muslims, but it's ok to talk about the evangelical right as though they are ignorant dummies . Last time I checked, the evangelicals weren't trying to kill me if they got their chance, but the radical muslims would love to take a shot on a group of children if they could.

I will never understand people who worry about or are concerned what a group thinks, when that group has no control over their life in any way. I'm sure I will catch flack over this, but that's what being politically incorect gets you.

reply to post by aero56


I know this. I'm not claiming that anyone is the Antichrist. These are claims made by other people. I don't go there.

Right Wingers in general are desperate human beings. I feel sad for them..

reply to post by mrpotatohead

However, I am concerned about a governemt who now is exercising total control over me, telling me what I should be doing, how I should raise my children, how I should do everything. That's who I am concerned about. So get real, and worry about someone who does have the power to effect your life, that's where your concern should lie.

prime example. Who's telling you how to raise your children? And how to live? See alot of people who dont pay attention to facts will believe something like that and roll with it. You probably heard the same nonsense from another source that didn't have facts. No one is enforcing anything, you get real man.


[edit on 17-9-2009 by TheWake]

Ok first off as a response to the op's video....

Did any one else notice how the interviewer generalized all conspiracies and linked them to the "fundamentalist/Anti-Obama/“birther” sub-culture. This is yet another Anti- Conspiracy Video by then end of it ( add to the recent Bill O Reilly about conspiracies about 9/11 are grotesque etc). Yes a lot of conspiracies are bunk but there are those that really hit the nail on the head and guess what!, you probably would not of heard of a lot of them that turned out to be true if it wasn't for sites like ATS. It really annoys me when they generalize people who are open to all possiblities and lust for the truth as fruitcakes. (If I have to read 1000 crappy theories to find just 1 that speaks TRUTH I will do so, if that makes me a crazy person then lock me up and throw away the key!)

Lastly I can't get over how many of you still can't see that there is only one power in control, all this about this side and that side, right wing, left wing...... none of it matters its all just a distraction away from the real agenda's, real power going on behind the scenes.

I'd also like to say that I think MSM "news" should STOP reporting on these people. Stop going after Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and birthers. That's not news. If you want something to report on, tell us what's going on in Iraq and Afghanistan. Tell us what Obama is doing to get us out of there. Tell us more about the health care bill, itself, not what the right and left are fighting over.

Going after Beck et al just makes them more popular. And makes them think that their movement actually means something. It gives them power... Leave them alone! Let them do their thing. Who cares?

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


Good call, I was going to say the same. Again, another liberal trying to marginalize ALL conservatives as the "lunatic fringe". Typical name-calling propaganda technique.

The fact is, most people are moderate, sitting on top of the bell curve. More are moving to this "independent" center because neither political party is representative of their beliefs anymore. This is, in my opinion, a symptom of the awakening of the people to the deceit that we've been experiencing. The absurdity of the government's actions of late have shown that they represent no one but themselves.

Really, people, it's time to stop marginalizing each other based on this one belief or that one belief and stand united against our oppressors.

By the way, spare the flaming for using the term "liberal". That's the other side of the bell curve from the so-called "lunatic fringe" and it's just as dangerous.

[edit on 17-9-2009 by AwakeinNM]

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
@ the OP

Wow . . . that is a very ignorant post, and an ignorant source, for that matter.

[edit on 9/17/2009 by Lemon.Fresh]

It's nice to see that ATS still has some guys willing to take on the right-wing Beck worshipers. Far too many birther threads in here nonetheless. I'm surprised it took so long before a troll arrived.

[edit on 17-9-2009 by andrewh7]

Thank you OP, S&F.

Last few days there has been a massive increase in such nuance threads, I agree few people with prior agenda's dont want to see facts even if it's in front of them. I also think you are correct in saying it's wasting our time trying to discuss about their views or showing them facts coz anything supporting Obama is automatically biased/ corrupt/ wrong/ prejudiced including Internationally renowned organisations, US Court Judges and even the Constitution is said to be wrong by some such people.

Obama-related conspiracy theories include I have seen last couple of days being a Nazi, terrorist, vampire, fascist and the list goes on.

Some of the things which were claimed against Obama made me laugh so hard:-

* Obama practices black magic in white house

* A number of homosexuals from Obama's former church have died mysteriously.

* Obama has dozens of social security numbers, and his passport is inaccurate.

* A Kenyan birth certificate with the name "Barack Obama" is authentic.

* Obama's first act as president was to donate money to Hamas, which she claims will be used to build Qassam rockets.

* Obama is having FEMA build internment camps for "Anti-Obama dissidents"

With views like these it fades the border of absurdity.

Just to make it clear, I support Obama 100%. Imo he is the best president to date a Country can have. I also support his policies including Healthcare.
Also I don't understand what is the meaning of Left wing/ Right Wing/ Conservative / Liberal or Repblican so keep me out of it.

[edit on 17-9-2009 by December_Rain]

[edit on 17-9-2009 by December_Rain]

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
Again, another liberal trying to marginalize ALL conservatives as the "lunatic fringe".

This is a Straw Man fallacy.

The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:

1. Person A has position X.
2. Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
3. Person B attacks position Y.
4. Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person.

When you are ready to discuss my actual position instead of a gross distortion of it, then I will be happy to respond to you.

[edit on 17-9-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Youch, someone likes their daily propaganda and wants it back. These guys, while sometimes annoying, are asking the right questions and that makes you uneasy because most of you who would say something like this choose to close your eyes and imagine that everything is lollipops and fuzzy kittens and the big government (being the benevolent entity that it is*) will make it aaaall better.

Hope in one hand and crap in the other... see which one gets you results.

reply to post by TheWake


You must not have children or you are unaware of the many bills passed by Bush threatening parental rights, or up coming bills Obama is trying to pass. I certainly consider that as telling me how to raise my children when they exercise control over what rights I have as a parent, when it comes to education and health matters.

Originally posted by bagari

Originally posted by Angus123
Liberals don't think that cavemen rode dinosaurs to church. They don't believe that witches have real magical powers the way christians do, and they certainly aren't afraid of them. (Just ask Sarah "prayer protection against witchcraft" Palin.) They worry about climate change because the silly notion that Jesus is going to come back and fix everything isn't much of an insurance policy to thinking men and women.

What's so sad is that people like yourself have no idea what real Christians believe in - or you wouldn't post your ignorance.

Originally posted by Angis123 Liberals don't view intellectualism as a vice. Liberals are not afraid to find that they have been wrong about an issue and change their views accordingly.

Being an "enlightened" liberal, please back up your claim. Tell me one instance of how you changed your liberal views about a subject when you found out you were wrong. My guess is that you can't.

I was raised in a fundamentalist family. I thought people like you could be reasoned with. I was wrong

[edit on 17-9-2009 by Angus123]

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

Youch, someone likes their daily propaganda and wants it back. These guys, while sometimes annoying, are asking the right questions and that makes you uneasy because most of you who would say something like this choose to close your eyes and imagine that everything is lollipops and fuzzy kittens and the big government (being the benevolent entity that it is*) will make it aaaall better.
Hope in one hand and crap in the other... see which one gets you results.

The overly pessimistic view of the government is also unhelpful. There are MANY things the government does right. To make sarcastic statements like you have make it look like you think the government is out to get you.

I think that overall, the government is here for the people. There are issues with it and it's not an ideal government. There's too much corruption and too much waste, but I see it going in a direction that means there will be less. It's going to get worse for a bit, but it'll get better. I'm sure of it.

Of course, I may just be too optimistic and end up being wrong, but I'll admit it when it happens.

reply to post by AwakeinNM


This just seems unnessasarily rude to me, you know? Nobody thinks we are living in lollipops. Everybody knows everything is far from okay.
I think both sides will agree on that much. But needless cliche with pointless comments doesn't help.

There has to be a way to develop some commonalities. We don't even talk to one another anymore. Just PAST one another. It's pointless.

reply to post by AwakeinNM


And this one is called Ad Hominem

An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:

1. Person A makes claim X.
2. Person B makes an attack on person A.
3. Therefore A's claim is false.

The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).

Again, when you are ready to discuss the TOPIC of my posts, and NOT me, personally, I MIGHT be willing to discuss it with you, although I'm losing interest pretty quickly.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Ok ok, fine by me... just don't toss me in with Republicans. I hate Republicans. More than Democrats even.. for all the reasons you listed, but try as I might I still get tossed into the Republican circle everytime I critisize Obama.

I AM A CONSERVATIVE

Proud one, at that..

Though I see you have clarified your stance, conservatives still suffer identity theft by the Republicans..

A true republican wouldn't be against gay marriage, abortion, or seperation of church and state.. a true republican wouldn't support massive budgets, partake in pork spending, authorize wars of agression, inflate our currency and send our jobs over seas... these conservative imposters destroyed our governments image and reputation, not to mention our economy in our name, and they don't even stand for one god damn true conservative principle..

Which is why I simply say now I hate GOVERNMENT.. all government in general, liberal or conservative.. and what's ironic about that?

Ii get called a right wing racist extreemist for thinking that....