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The Desperation and Dangers of the Far-Right Extreme Evangelical Sub-Culture

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posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 08:32 PM
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Orginally posted by Alethea:

After all, the god of Abraham requires blood sacrifice and provides for "his" people by the spoils of war. The god of Abraham started a lot of division between people and his main theme is "kill everyone who does not think like you do". That's pretty much the point of all the wars in the OT.


(Sigh. It is amazing how people can speak so authoritatively about something when they obviously have no grasp of what they speak. "Kill(ing) everyone who does not think like you do" offers a blatant example of complete ignorance of the OT. That's absurb and demonstrates a total lack of understanding and discernment. That's purely an uninformed opinion. Ok...off to the real topic. I just couldn't let that slide without a response.)

Anyway, it just amazes me how much of a double standard exists in this country nowadays. It's okay and considered free-speech when a leftwing nutjob accused Bush of being a Nazi, but when conservatives do it to Obama, it's a crime worthy of death - "stone him!" Bush was crazy. Period. He destroyed so many of our civil liberties that it's ridiculous. However, the Messiah of the new century has done nothing to reverse these afronts to the American values of liberty, privacy and freedom, yet, well, that's ok because he's Obama. Why did these issues that were so loudly tooted by the left just disappear when Obama got in office?

I've supported neither of them. They're both from the same mold. All politicians are the same, and until everybody wakes up and sees that our government has become intolerably corrupted by corporate interests, lobbyists and greed (financial and power), they will continue to sit on their golden thrones and condescendingly look down their noses at you, the average Joe. As long as we are divided over stupid crap like this, nothing will ever change. Hasn't anyone heard of divide and conquer? As long as they keep this petty squabbling alive and well, nothing will improve.

The biggest shame here is that people jump on a politcal party's talking points without thoughtfully considering both sides - and that goes for left and right. The generalizations, accusations and mud-slinging just go to show that people no longer think rationally with facts; they now think with emotions and refrain from civility and common respect by sliding down the slippery slope of Mt. Insult. Let's face it, most Americans - on BOTH sides - are woefully ignorant of what's really going on. They watch their favorite news channel (Fox for the right, CNN and MSNBC for the left), and hear "facts" slanted and twisted so much that they are no longer "facts", they're baseless and usually misinformed opinions.

Who here has the cajones to echo Patrick Henry by stating truthfully that "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"?? Most Americans now just want to insult and shout down those with whom they don't agree. Talk a stroll through this thread alone (or any one that has Bush or Obama in the title) and you'll see what I mean.

[edit on 17-9-2009 by islandwillie to give props to Alethea in the quote]

[edit on 17-9-2009 by islandwillie]




posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by projectvxn
Here's the funny thing about this:

When MSNBC edited that video of a black guy holding an AR15 it did so in the hopes of driving the racism charge home. All the while they had missed the fact that this gun-toting individual was a right-wing evangelical zealot belonging to a church promoting the assassination of the POTUS.


Source please? Or are you just swallowing some pundit's unsubstantiated accusations like the Kood-Aid in Jonestown?

If it was a white guy, it would have been the end of the world. Since this gentleman, who was exercising his Constitutional right and not breaking any laws, was not white, it was dropped pretty quickly once the so-called shock wore off.

Please give us the source of his religious affliation and his church's promotion of an assassination. Can you?



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 08:52 PM
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One of the main pushes behind Glenn Beck is this same fundamentalist cult brainwashing...

For example

Source Link


What has Beck been pushing on his legions? "Leap," first published in 1981, is a heavily illustrated and factually challenged attempt to explain American history through an unspoken lens of Mormon theology. As such, it is an early entry in the ongoing attempt by the religious right to rewrite history. Fundamentalists want to define the United States as a Christian nation rather than a secular republic, and recast the Founding Fathers as devout Christians guided by the Bible rather than deists inspired by French and English philosophers. "Leap" argues that the U.S. Constitution is a godly document above all else, based on natural law, and owes more to the Old and New Testaments than to the secular and radical spirit of the Enlightenment. It lists 28 fundamental beliefs -- based on the sayings and writings of Moses, Jesus, Cicero, John Locke, Montesquieu and Adam Smith -- that Skousen says have resulted in more God-directed progress than was achieved in the previous 5,000 years of every other civilization combined. The book reads exactly like what it was until Glenn Beck dragged it out of Mormon obscurity: a textbook full of aggressively selective quotations intended for conservative religious schools like Utah's George Wythe University, where it has been part of the core freshman curriculum for decades (and where Beck spoke at this year's annual fundraiser).

But more interesting than the contents of "The 5,000 Year Leap," and more revealing for what it says about 912ers and the Glenn Beck Nation, is the book's author. W. Cleon Skousen was not a historian so much as a player in the history of the American far right; less a scholar of the republic than a threat to it. At least, that was the judgment of J. Edgar Hoover's FBI, which maintained a file on Skousen for years that eventually totaled some 2,000 pages. Before he died in 2006 at the age of 92, Skousen's own Mormon church publicly distanced itself from the foundation that Skousen founded and that has published previous editions of "The 5,000 Year Leap."

As Beck knows, to focus solely on "The 5,000 Year Leap" is to sell the author short. When he died in 2006 at the age of 92, Skousen had authored more than a dozen books and pamphlets on the Red Menace, New World Order conspiracy, Christian child rearing, and Mormon end-times prophecy. It is a body of work that does much to explain Glenn Beck's bizarre conspiratorial mash-up of recent months, which decries a new darkness at noon and finds strange symbols carefully coded in the retired lobby art of Rockefeller Center. It also suggests that the modern base of the Republican Party is headed to a very strange place.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 08:54 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 





Its like calling liberals godless communist anti american raging homosexuals.


You raised a good point,

I would wager a guess that the majority of liberals are Christian.

And the majority of blacks that voted overwhelmingly for Obama are Christian.

Obama says he is a Christian.

While people are all busy pointing the finger in one direction, they are going to get blindsided from the other, and they won't know what hit them.


[edit on 083030p://bThursday2009 by Stormdancer777]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:02 PM
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As usual, someone takes a peaceful movement such as Christianity and perverts it to gain control, power, etc. And people want to blame religion. Honestly, if you think these people know what it means to be Christian, then that say more about your intelligence than theirs.

I'm Christian, I voted for Obama. I didn't want Bush as my president. While I agree that our government is involved with a lot of shady things, I cannot see how anyone could call Obama the Anti-Christ. Truth is a lot of people in our country are still racist and use the institution of organized religion as a stomping ground. Really, let's fight ignorance.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by Angus123

Originally posted by bagari



I was raised in a fundamentalist family. I thought people like you could be reasoned with. I was wrong


[edit on 17-9-2009 by Angus123]


How are you trying to reason anything? You purposely used a couple of outrageous claims believed by maybe 10 people in this country and I said you were ignorant to Christian beliefs. Oh well, I guess in your ignorance you call that reasoning. I call it desparation.

I like how you sidestepped proving your claim of liberal superiority by not telling me a single way in which you changed your liberal views when you saw you were wrong.


LOL ... there's no point! You believe in an invisible sky daddy that rewards those he favors and tortures those he doesn't. I am all too familiar with your belief system, and as such I won't waste my time trying to reason with you anymore than I'd try to teach my cat how to drive.

Now make yourself a nice cup of tea, turn of Fox news and relax knowing that the world is a simple black and white place and someday your god is going to burn me for eternity and I'll soooooooo wish I listened to you.


I'm not even a Christian. I'm just pointing out that you make yourself look stoooopid by trying to make christians look like they believe in whacko ideas that even you know almost no one believes. Keep on living your life of put-downs. I couldn't care less. Your comments show everyone who reads them the bigotted ideas of the radical left.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:29 PM
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I like how if somone opposes one political view nowadays they are crazy as bat# fundmentalist right wing whack jobs and its OK to call them red meat eating baffoons, lalalala but how dare they question your great and illustrious leader Barry O? I mean wtf? Give me a Fin break. So what! This is America land of the free isnt it? I mean I could care less if you as a Barry O supporter Think that wipping cat dung all over your body and writhing to aretha frankilin till you pass out is the hipist coolest thing to do. Thats you baby. Live the Freedom. Have your views, have your Religion, Have your whatever makes you happy and oppose my beliefs all you want but what I want to know is why is it so Fin important to you to come here and post this dribble about fundys? Why is it so important to you to come here and try to argue people to believe like you? Will the sun not rise tommorrow if someone doesnt belive that Barry O is really a legal citizen. And heres the kicker. You can say all that shiz about fundys but anyone that says a thing bad about your leader BO they must be Racist! Give me a Break Man. enjoy that you have your guy in office and let it go. Different strokes for different folks is what makes this country what it is. Why so damn important to belittle and smurge others that don't believe like you? Sheesh if everyone believed just like you this country would be what? China? Boring? Communist? God I get so tired of these threads



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:29 PM
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Reply to OP. Amen!

My father-in-law is an intelligent, dear, God fearing religious fundamentalist, and die hard Republican, who told us at the family get together two months ago, how much he can't stand that Muslim Obama. His son countered that with, Dad, he's not a muslim. Didn't matter, so that's why we never bring up politics around him. He thinks we're the nuts for not sharing his "correct" political beliefs.

The first layer of Republican moderate voters began to peel off in the 1980's. Those who remained in the tent had to contend with the religious fundamentalist group, who had been welcomed into the tent as the third leg of the stool, cultural conservatism.

This group drew voters out in enough numbers over cultural issues, to vote into power the other legs of the stool. What better party members to have, than those who would eschew facts, find change and nuances troubling, and accept and submit to an authoritarian power. This group was considered the valuable sideshow in the circus tent, the draw.

Moderate members could not or did not speak up, for fear of risking political careers if elected members, or unwilling to speak ill of their beloved party. When it became intellectually and emotionally untenable to stay, more layers peeled away.

In the meantime, the years of electing increasingly religious/political fundamentalist members, and enjoying increasing cultural icons of like mind, the Republican party has been left with this once fringe group as the core. And all it took was for some good people to not speak up.

It didn't help that dirty/dishonest tricks, thanks to Rove etal, became a staple of Republican play. Such play could sway even the most honest of Americans. Those who believed what was fed to them, those whose fears would be assuaged, or stoked, relied on the party for relief.

No, BH, arguing to deaf ears is futile. To my family member, Obama will always be a Muslim.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 09:42 PM
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reply to post by aero56
 


The Antichrist is a person. That's what the Bible says. Unless you don't believe the Bible. Go and check your references. it's there if you want to read about him.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by islandwillie

Originally posted by projectvxn
Here's the funny thing about this:

When MSNBC edited that video of a black guy holding an AR15 it did so in the hopes of driving the racism charge home. All the while they had missed the fact that this gun-toting individual was a right-wing evangelical zealot belonging to a church promoting the assassination of the POTUS.


Source please? Or are you just swallowing some pundit's unsubstantiated accusations like the Kood-Aid in Jonestown?

If it was a white guy, it would have been the end of the world. Since this gentleman, who was exercising his Constitutional right and not breaking any laws, was not white, it was dropped pretty quickly once the so-called shock wore off.

Please give us the source of his religious affliation and his church's promotion of an assassination. Can you?



Firstly, a little back-ground on the man carrying the gun: www.churchsolutionsmag.com...

And here's the video where they do a close up of the gun, and edit out the man, call the rally racist, and conveniently forget to mention the man holding the gun was back.

The story above also covers the church issue and where this man's feeling about Obama come from. Some people want a holy Christian War. This guy might be one of them.



I listen to no one. I do my own work.



[edit on 17-9-2009 by projectvxn]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 


I asked you to put up or shut up, basically, and you put up. Good for you.


Thanks for the background. I couldn't listen to that whole sermon right now (and frankly, not sure I want to use up an hour of my life that I'll never get back), but any pastor calling for hatred of anything other than evil/sin (NOT the perpetrator or sinner, but the action) or an assassination is NOT a real Christian. No more than Jim Jones, Tim McVeigh or those abortion doctor killers were. Nonetheless, since he is a self-professing Christian pastor, we can't ignore the "religious" aspect of his views. It is a shame, though, when so-called pastors use their pulpit to unduly influence well-intentioned people or twist the truth in the Bible to something profane like this. Very upsetting - especially since he's right down the street from me! Yikes!


More upsetting, however, in the knee-jerk reaction sense, is that cadre of "journalists" who unashamedly brought race up and INTENTIONALLY misled viewers by failing to inform them that one of the "racists" carrying a gun was black. C'mon!! OMG. How much more obvious could the bias be here? Did no one call them on this?!

I'm disgusted by both videos.

******************************************************
Lord, help me to forgive those who sin differently than I!



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 10:27 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


I agree with most of your post - extremists are a danger to America.
But I'm curios... Do you feel only the right wing extremists pose a problem?

In my view, all extremists are the problem.
And only pointing out the 'right-wing' extremists is likely to anger a few people (namely the Republicans who are not extremists).

It seems both sides are only interested in pointing out the problems of the other side, while remaining completely ignorant of the problems on their side.
Which is, more than likely, a big part of the problem...



[edit on 17-9-2009 by TruthParadox]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by bagari

Originally posted by Angus123

Originally posted by bagari



You're not a christian? LOL!! I call BS on that one! Isn't lying one of the no-no listed on the magic rocks?

[edit on 17-9-2009 by Angus123]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 10:54 PM
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Wouldn't a thread that is 100% political bate, that attacks and slanders not only political opposites but religious opposites aswell be taken down if it came from the right? It's one thing to oppose policies of dems or reps it's another to spit your hate at millions of Americans. These people protesting Obama's policies arn't a "fringe" group, they represent many millions of Americans and their not all "fundamentalist nutjobs". One thing is certain, the only people holding race relations back are the ones using the race card. Using his race as a shield is racist to both whites and blacks. What ever happened to judging people individualy based on how they come?



[edit on 17-9-2009 by Sheeper]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by HotDogNoBun
Oh and I guess being some left wing, tree hugging Liberal is not just as much of a cult. There are loonies on both sides. I would say there are way more crazy out of touch liberals in this country than there are crazy evangelical conservatives.


You are correct in saying that there are a whole lot more liberal people in this country than conservative. The big difference is that conservatives are much more organized via churches and seem much more predisposed to try and force their values down the throats of the masses.

The punchline is that Jesus was pretty much the biggest liberal in recorded history.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 11:29 PM
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reply to post by Barkster
 




God I get so tired of these threads


I know what you mean, it isn't even interesting anymore.

Covering the same old ground over and OVER

and

OVER

Make it stop.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 11:39 PM
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reply to post by candide
 





The big difference is that conservatives are much more organized via churches


That is just not true, you don't think liberals go to CHURCH?

Brother ain't you never been to no black church?

They are full friend, and they are organized and fanatical as they come.

Holy roll'in and the whole nine yards.

www.youtube.com...




www.youtube.com...



www.youtube.com...


You ain't lived till you been in a black church service,



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 11:48 PM
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www.youtube.com...



I'll tell you what, if this don't stir something deep in the depths of your soul and set you feet a dancing,

You might as well be dead,

you gotta be dead.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 11:53 PM
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Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by candide
 





The big difference is that conservatives are much more organized via churches


That is just not true, you don't think liberals go to CHURCH?

Brother ain't you never been to no black church?


Plenty of liberals go to church, they just dont organize as well and especially dont vote as consistently as conservatives do. When was the last time you saw a black church led initiative on the ballot?

Hell, Dems have the majority in the Senate and a huge majority in the house and its still like herding cats to get health care reform. R's as usual vote in a block with only Olympia Snowe pretending like she might play ball.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 12:12 AM
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I'm not really afraid of radical right wing Christians. Let's see, there is the preacher who prays for god to make Obama dead. The black man with the Uzi at the tea bag event is a member of that church. Well if god answered prayers like this Obama would be dead, wouldn't he? If there are lone gunmen out there they may be part of any grouping. Lee Harvey was a communist, and so on.

But you have to be kidding that you live in fear of these groups. I remember the 60s and 70s and rioting and wasn't too overwrought about it. I understood the frustrations. I was in San Francisco when Harvey Milk was killed. I wasn't afraid of the marchers in that event.

People's fears bubble to the surface and everyone has to deal with that.

I worked in the war on poverty and voted for Carter. He was a disappointment. I met socialists and found them creepy, but I also worked with black Jehovah witnesses and found them odd too. I met Roland Burris and Harold Washington and went to democratic functions. I met Dick Gregory. I worked with people who packed guns and knives and I survived. I survived a robbery by black revolutionaries in Chicago. I came to the conclusion that the federal government would never have enough money to solve the problems people had. We need free enterprise and entrepreneurship with everyone having work to really make things better for people. This is what the people told me.

I can see how the FED is screwing things up, and how big government and spending screw things up. If we are spending borrowed money, the government is bound to fail big time when no one will loan us the money and they start printing it. So I am conservative with respect to fiscal matters.

I can't help it, but when I hear a politicians talk it comes out lies. Either party.

I think we have common ground if you can get past the fears.

[edit on 18-9-2009 by A52FWY]



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