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The Desperation and Dangers of the Far-Right Extreme Evangelical Sub-Culture

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posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 01:55 PM
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reply to post by romanmel
 


I had a thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Frank Schaeffer: How I (and Other "Pro-Life" Leaders) Contributed to Dr. Tiller's Murder


That discusses the level of hateful rhetoric that infuses so much of the right and especially the religious right's writings...and you see it on here a lot too.

Such rhetoric...not argument...not disagreement...but hate filled rhetoric that demonizes the other and seeks to paint them as anti-Christian or anti-American etc... has poisoned the political life of this country...and while the left has its share of it as well, the vast majority has come from the right.




posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 02:04 PM
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reply to post by open_eyeballs
 


If I were to say that the people who protested for years about the "stolen election" were whiner babies, people who swing left but didn't necessarily complain along with them would leap to their defense out of a lingering team allegiance. When you call the birthers and evangelicals fanatics the same thing happens.

There is no way that this topic could not degenerate in spite of all of the nice things that are said of moderate Christians and conservatives.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by A Fortiori

Originally posted by mental modulator
I'm one of these people - I have no problem with questioning, but when there is a clear pattern of fear based xenophobic propaganda I begin to question motive...

So far Obama is a Muslim, foreigner, homosexual, fascist, communist, Zionist, anti christ says the rhetoric. Funny enough Obama seems to be small town Americas favorite things all rolled into one. Talk about consolidation kettle


Having grown up in a big city and settled in a small town I can tell you that you will see more racism, homophobia, and other human ugliness when people are stuffed closer together in cities. I could point to behavioral studies as to why proximity causes tension, if you'd like.

Please don't generalize unless its in a happy way.



Not what I have experienced, I can't count the times _"what cha doin here boy" and room full of whispers, stink eye and being followed by pickum ups.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by grover
reply to post by romanmel
 


I had a thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Frank Schaeffer: How I (and Other "Pro-Life" Leaders) Contributed to Dr. Tiller's Murder


That discusses the level of hateful rhetoric that infuses so much of the right and especially the religious right's writings...and you see it on here a lot too.

Such rhetoric...not argument...not disagreement...but hate filled rhetoric that demonizes the other and seeks to paint them as anti-Christian or anti-American etc... has poisoned the political life of this country...and while the left has its share of it as well, the vast majority has come from the right.


I agree...it is so sad that at such a critical time as this, what passes as Christians are so full of vile hate and consumed with "taking the world for Christ." Christ is capable of taking what He will when He wishes. These misguided souls have set themselves up as gods.

We are told in scriptures, that in the end-times there will be a great falling away. This is it, IMO.

[edit on 17-9-2009 by romanmel]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 02:11 PM
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What is the real problem here? Is it because someone is saying something about the guy you like?

Jesus could come back, walk across the ocean, step foot in New York, and the cover of the NYT would be, "Jesus can't swim."

Why can't we have dissenters? Why can't we have people who don't agree. Personally, this site would be boring as hell if it were filled with just "birthers" or "truthers" or "aliens" or "weird people".

Uh, scratch the last one.


Dissent, by it's VERY NATURE is how this country was founded.

So, rock on you liberals, you Obama lovers, you Obama haters, you aliens, you truthers, you birthers.

This "weird" guy will always allow you free speech, a rousing debate, and if you're near by, a cold beer.

peace, or war.

both are cool with me.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by mikerussellus
What is the real problem here? Is it because someone is saying something about the guy you like?

Jesus could come back, walk across the ocean, step foot in New York, and the cover of the NYT would be, "Jesus can't swim."

Why can't we have dissenters? Why can't we have people who don't agree. Personally, this site would be boring as hell if it were filled with just "birthers" or "truthers" or "aliens" or "weird people".

Uh, scratch the last one.


Dissent, by it's VERY NATURE is how this country was founded.

So, rock on you liberals, you Obama lovers, you Obama haters, you aliens, you truthers, you birthers.

This "weird" guy will always allow you free speech, a rousing debate, and if you're near by, a cold beer.

peace, or war.

both are cool with me.


I agree Mike, I would probably doing useful thinks if it was not for the other side, it keeps me coming back.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 02:20 PM
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Great, so we're posting MSNBC's Rachel Maddow as sources now on ATS, that is splendid.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by mental modulator
 


How else do we learn? I mean seriously. If we ONLY talked to people who thought like me, me, me then when would you learn anything?

Trust me, since joining ATS I've gotten one HECK of an education.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by mikerussellus
reply to post by mental modulator
 


How else do we learn? I mean seriously. If we ONLY talked to people who thought like me, me, me then when would you learn anything?

Trust me, since joining ATS I've gotten one HECK of an education.



ME too Mike, ATS has been great for me in a couple of ways - posting has even helped me with my speling prablem!

[edit on 17-9-2009 by mental modulator]

[edit on 17-9-2009 by mental modulator]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by A Fortiori
 


Im sorry, I fail to see your point..

Are you somehow condoning some of the actions of the fringe right by comparing them to the actions of the left?

In essence two wrongs make a right?

I dont know...you tell me...

I dont see any comparison with propgandized wars and religious agendas with the falsities that are American elections...

help me understand what it is you are saying...



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 02:37 PM
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reply to post by mikerussellus
 


ive learned more here than i did in the 14 years of schooling i had..or in the military...haha

not sure if that says more about me or the system...


i wasnt much into school while growing up...


but listening to some very intelligent people here and then looking for sources to their arguments has taught me a great deal..and for that i am more appreciative than anything



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by paizon
"Offering reality-based rebuttals to conservative lies only makes conservatives cling to those lies even harder."


While this speaks to the point of my post, I'm not thrilled with the use of the conservative vs liberal mindset. I am both liberal and conservative and to mount an attack against all conservatives, I would be mounting an attack against myself. My post speaks to a subculture of conservatives, not all of them.



Originally posted by TheTruthShallFreeYou
It not only shows that you do watch and believe what MSNBC is spewing,


I watch a variety of TV "news" sources. I have never denied watching MSNBC.



The only conspiracy is the efforts by you and others like you to paint all republicans, and christians, with a broad brush.


This false argument is getting really old. If I cared what you thought, I'd rebut...



I know what this thread is about, and it is not the "education" that you are claiming to provide.


So far, you apparently think this thread is about me. And I didn't offer to educate anyone.


So is it fair to say, now that you have admitted your viewership of MSNBC, that I can paint you with the same brush as well?


You can do whatever you want, hon. Paint me however you wish. I "admitted" that I watch MSNBC (along with FOX and CNN) a LONG time ago. I don't consider ANY of them to be real news. The only channel I advocate for real news is LINK TV. Just because MSNBC is a liberal channel doesn't mean that they don't occasionally have a good guest.


Originally posted by SaturnFX
What needs to be fought is ignorance...facts matter. If you are believing in something, then make sure its supported by concrete facts, else you are part of the problem verses the solution.


Great post! I agree completely!


Originally posted by romanmel
First of all, you report Frank Schaeffer is the son of C Everett Coop. He is not.


My apologies. I should have checked that. I heard it and repeated it. I have edited the OP.

reply to post by mikerussellus
 


mikerussellus mark your calander! We agree!


Thanks for ALL the responses!
We CAN keep it civil. It's each person's choice.


[edit on 17-9-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by open_eyeballs
 


Exactly.

People like BH presented in the OP should embrace others who think differently.

Instead, they ignore, abase, insult those people.

And here we are, the peons, the dregs, the little people, who do realize that it is the differing of opinions that make us stronger, smarter.

I pity those that live in ivory towers.

It must get lonely.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Bh, we should start a thread, this time calling it SIGNS OF APOCALYPSE.

I think you and I agreeing would be three or four on the list.






posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 03:00 PM
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BH, your insights are as usual right on the mark. Honestly I came to the same conclusion some time ago but never thought to put it down to words. Science and logic are often poison to the faithful and thus there is no argument that will ever sway them, never enough evidence to win the argument.

Yet facts and reason must continue to come to light or we will plunge into a "Dark ages".



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Yup, nice post. Been obvious for a long time, and is clear and loud here. One good book I've read on the related subject:

"Eliminationism: how hate talk radicalised the american right" Dave Neiwert

(focuses on everything from fundamentalism to militias, from talk show bobbleheads to the Birch's). A interesting read with a good historical perspective for a popular book.

A second I'll be on once available here:

"Republican Gommorah" Max Blumenthal. Very much focused on the religious right's influence on US politics.

There's toxic element working its magic. No space for discussion or negotiation with such influences. How can there be? The reason was made pretty clear in the first few posts.

I find it all very intriguing.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Yeah, I'm sure people have thought of past presidents as the Antichrist, but not 1/3 of one of the two political parties! One third of Democrats didn't claim Bush was the Antichrist!


Well, the disparity on one side is probably because most of these nut-jobs identify with the Republican party. That's not to say that the majority of Republicans are nut-jobs. Just that these individuals see this party as being more in line with their religious views. You can take one single issue like abortion and it rules out most of the Christian (who actually try to follow what's in the Bible) from joining your party.

The subset of Christians who tend to be more liberal in their world-view are less likely to take the Bible literally and so not worried about the end of the world or Armageddon. Which leaves them not looking for a reason to crucify Obama as the anti-Christ.

[edit on 17-9-2009 by dbates]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
@ the OP

Wow . . . that is a very ignorant post, and an ignorant source, for that matter.



[edit on 9/17/2009 by Lemon.Fresh]


Ignorant of???

I suppose I could say that this was a VERY spurious post from a spurious source for that matter...

Don't post your comment with a veiled insult and then leave it unquantified. If you're going to spew venom, do it right or don't do it at all.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 03:14 PM
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What is a birther ? Is this a new lefty term for a heterosexual?



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by octotom
Yes, I did read your post. That is why I responded to it. At the end, you made an allusion to people who believe in God:


That is an analogy. Let me state it more simply: For me to try to convince the birthers that they are wrong - is like an atheist trying to convince a believer they they are wrong.


it looks a little like you're trying to equate any one that is in this "cult" to Christianity. Do you understand what I'm saying?


I am under the impression that most (not all) of the birthers are Christians. I could be wrong. But I'm not talking about Christians. I'm talking about the sub-culture of birthers. And my views, IN NO WAY, are reflective upon Christians or Christianity as a whole, any more than radical Islam is a reflection of Islam as a whole. I'm talking about a SUB-CULTURE of right wing evangelicals who are trying to oust Obama on the basis of their FAITH that he is somehow ineligible. I'm talking about "birthers".

If you wish to continue to suggest that I'm somehow equating these people to Christians, go ahead. But that is YOUR skewed perception and has nothing to do with what I'm actually saying.


I said that these people, if given concrete answers to their claims would back down. Calling them "the village idiots" and "buffons" simply isn't going to cut it if you're trying to get through to them.


THEY WILL NOT BACK DOWN. They HAVE concrete answers. They CHOOSE their FAITH (not in God, but in their Anti-Obama dogma) in the face of FACTS.

As regards the names Shaeffer used, I don't think he's trying to get through to them. He's reporting on them. He knows that it's useless to try to get through to them. And I'm realizing this myself.



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