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Capitalism = Racism (A Brief Exploration)

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posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 01:35 PM
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DISCLAIMER: Some images you may find in this thread may be offensive to you. They are used in the context of the discussion and are not intended to show bias or approve of any of the acts depicted in the images.



We have all been exposed to numerous discussions the last week about what role racism might have played in the last presidential election and how closely it is tied to the approval of the policies and actions of the 44th president of the United States.

This is not that argument rehashed, but an attempt to better understand the origins of racism and shed a little light for myself on why we are in the boat we are in when it comes to the seemingly precipitous issue of racism in our society and even our political system.

There are as many intricacies involved in most peoples interpretations of the word ‘racism’ as there are colors of skin and personal experiences referenced when relaying their beliefs.

Racism is a word with ugly connotations. I realize I am as far from enlightened as perhaps anyone could be, but for me, personally, the word conjures very specific images in my mind. These images are undoubtedly based on my own experiences and exposures. They include, Nazi Germany, burning crosses, lynch mobs, caste systems, apartheid, riots, railroads, both ‘underground’ and Chinese-built. I’m sure you get the point. The word ‘racism’ almost instantly transports my mind to a dark and violent place and accusations of it, or exposure to it causes me distress.

In my own understanding, it is almost impossible to separate any of the causes, systems, practices, beliefs and consequences of racism from one another. I liken it to pepper juice in my iced tea. The more pepper juice I add, the hotter and more distasteful my tea will become. Even a tiny drop of pepper juice has the potential to alter the flavor. Varying degrees of the practice of racial bias result in the same outcome – inequality. Any amount of race-based bias distorts the flavor of our civilization.

Often today, when racism is brought up, it is slanted predominantly in a conversation of the disparity between ‘black’ Americans and ‘white’ Americans. It is easy to lose sight of the global nature of this phenomenon and it implications throughout man’s short recorded history.

It is safe to say that racism has affected every nationality and ethnicity on this planet at one time or another. Here are some of the relationships that have demonstrated racial bias, discrimination, intolerance, hatred and genocidal tendencies.

White-Black
Black-White
White-Chinese
Chinese-Japanese
White-Hispanic
Hispanic-Black
Black-Asian
Asian-Black

You could go on all day with these. Each and every one affected the others in some way. Religious beliefs would add dozens more pages, but we’re focusing on ethnicity.

Racism is not limited in outward expression by ANY ethnicity and is also not limited in targets to any ethnicity.

There seem to be three major ‘catalysts’ for racism expressed as either a defense for the behavior, an attack against it, or just an explanation for it. As with many words in our languages, this one may have changed slightly over time.

We’ll use Dictionary.com for our ‘meaning’ of the word.


rac⋅ism  [rey-siz-uh m]
–noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
Origin:
1865–70; < F racisme. See RACE 2 , -ISM


That seems fairly cut and dry. I draw your attention again, to the date indicating the time of ORIGIN for this particular word - the late 1860’s. If the sun is not called the sun, it still burns bright, so the origins of the label used for the practice of racism is not so significant in and of itself but just hold on to it for a while.

The three areas we are going to explore briefly are:

Genetic Disparity
Discrimination
Hatred


I know this is an oversimplification and I make no claims to completely encompass every aspect of this social cancer.

Genetic Disparity

The arguments on either side of this aspect of racism are not difficult to find, if one is interested in becoming more familiar with them. The darker side of this belief has led nations to eugenics and genocide. It is simply a way to dehumanize, or elevate one or more genetic ‘stocks’ below or above another. The belief that one or more particular ethnicities are ‘sub-human’ or not as evolved, or ‘important’ as another, is a very old and common belief system and is evident even today, in our society.

This ideology has been perpetuated through some of the ‘brilliant’ minds we had come to trust and whose accomplishments we had, at one time applauded.



James Watson – the co-discoverer of DNA's double helix – recently made some racist remarks
The 79-year-old geneticist said he was “inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa” because “all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really.". He said he hoped that everyone was equal, but countered that “people who have to deal with black employees find this not true”.


freewill.typepad.com...

Similar beliefs and statements delving deeper into eugenics have also been documented and even endorsed by way of very large contributions from like-minded individuals and corporations.


THE PIONEER FUND The revival of eugenics in North America has more to do with ideology and money than with science. A New York-based foundation called the Pioneer Fund, established in 1937 by textile heir Wickliffe Draper, has provided millions of dollars (more than $10 million from 1971-1992 alone) to behavioral scientists whose findings lend credence to racist ideas and eugenic solutions, as well as to anti-immigrant groups. Draper believed that genetics could be used to prove the inferiority of blacks and the superiority of the white Anglo-Saxon stock that first colonized the Eastern seaboard. The Pioneer Fund’s original charter outlines a commitment to work for "racial betterment" through studies in heredity and eugenics and to "improve the character of the American people" by encouraging the procreation of descendants of the original white colonial stock.


It has been argued that selective breeding, the same used on farm animals can be credited for physical differences in some races today, notably blacks. If true, this would underscore the relationship between science and racism. Some could argue that nature itself performs selective breeding, resulting in the survival of the fittest. Below is a thread, written by a member of ATS that explains that branch of this discussion fairly well. His opinions are his own and I am appreciative of his contributions to ATS.

www.sntp.net...

( Credit to MysterE for the below thread )

Don't call me a racist until you read the whole OP
www.abovetopsecret.com...


Differences in genetics typically result in differences in appearance and as you have seen before, some will argue that genetics also determine intelligence and thus the potential for scholarly contribution to society.

Discrimination

This may well be the most obvious indicator, symptom, expression or problem we face as a nation when it comes to racism. It runs the gamut from well-disguised business or employment practices that favor one skin tone over another, to the outright segregation of schools and neighborhoods based on ethnicity. Immigrants of ANY ethnicity have long been exposed to ridicule and even violence by xenophobes. Often times, as a basis for this type of behavior, the perpetrator will rely heavily on the genetic disparity we discussed earlier to justify their treatment of other people.

Examples of discrimination can be easily found and we needn’t spend too much time covering it. We all know what it is, and we all know how it makes us feel.







Hatred

Again, this is an oversimplification. I’m using the word hatred to describe the stage or condition of racism where a belief in genetic disparity has persisted to the point of causing the creation of a system that leaves no room in our neighborhood, city or even world for those that have a different color skin, or can trace their most recent few generations to a different part of the world.
We’ve all seen this before, but in case you can’t remember, here is a little reminder of what it looks like.







Now that we have explored a little more thoroughly, the meaning and appearance of racism, I would like to dig just a little deeper into its origins. Although it can be argued that some form of racism has always existed, in almost all peoples as a means of self-preservation, a very common understanding of the origins of the ‘racism’ that we know today is that it began in the late 1600’s with the practice of capturing and enslaving peoples of African descent for use as field hands, general laborers and domestic servants.






[edit on 16-9-2009 by KSPigpen]




posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 01:35 PM
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The official rationale for enslaving Africans was that they were heathens, but slave traders and slave owners sometimes interpreted a passage in the book of Genesis as their justification. Ham, they maintained, committed a sin against his father Noah that condemned his supposedly black descendants to be "servants unto servants." When Virginia decreed in 1667 that converted slaves could be kept in bondage, not because they were actual heathens but because they had heathen ancestry, the justification for black servitude was thus changed from religious status to something approaching race. Beginning in the late seventeenth century laws were also passed in English North America forbidding marriage between whites and blacks and discriminating against the mixed offspring of informal liaisons. Without clearly saying so, such laws implied that blacks were unalterably alien and inferior.


www.pbs.org...

The practice of slavery itself is far older than that, however, with recorded accounts dating back to our first versions of recorded history.

The Roman, Greek and Egyptian empires are all notorious for their use of slave labor. One difference between them and slightly more current American society is that slaves in these earlier civilizations were not limited to one ethnicity or skin color.



Only a handful of societies made slavery the dominant labor force. The first true slave society in history emerged in ancient Greece between the 6th and 4th centuries. In Athens during the classical period, a third to a half of the population consisted of slaves. Rome would become even more dependent on slavery. It is not an accident that our modern ideas of freedom and democracy emerged in a slave society. Most early societies lacked a word for freedom; but large-scale slavery in classical Greece and Rome made these people more aware of the distinctive nature of freedom. Slavery never disappeared from medieval Europe. While slavery declined in northwestern Europe, it persisted in Sicily, southern Italy, Russia, southern France, Spain, and North Africa. Most of these slaves were "white," coming from areas in Eastern Europe or near the Black Sea.


www.digitalhistory.uh.edu...

The overwhelming conclusion that I am led to involving racism is that it is due, in large part to the exploitation of peoples as slave labor for capitalist societies.

There is much evidence and opinion to correlate the use of slavery, and thus racism, to advances in capitalist society and innovations in manufacturing, business and technical fields.



THE HORRORS OF the New World slave system cannot be expressed in figures alone but the shear scale of these is staggering. The slave population of the Americas reached 33,000 in 1700, nearly three million in 1800 and peaked at over six million in 1850. During this period a million and a half died during the passage to the New World, large numbers died beforehand and between a tenth and a fifth died within a year of landing.
This huge and businesslike system remains one of the great tragedies of history. In The Making of New World Slavery, now available in paperback, Robin Blackburn suggests that it points us towards the "dark side of progress" (p5) in that the inhumanity of the system developed side by side with huge steps forward in knowledge and technique, such as the exploration of the Atlantic and the development of new navigational techniques. At the heart of the system lay a huge contradiction. The people who colonised the New World were largely those who rejected most strongly the old order in Europe. Yet just as unfree labour was dying out in Europe it began to develop on a massive new scale in the Americas. This contradiction was only resolved by the complete racialisation of New World slavery so that skin colour and slavery became inextricably linked.


www.socialismtoday.org...



Racism emerged out of the rise in the slave trade in the eighteenth century. Black people could be bought and sold like property and treated - or maltreated - as their owners wished, because they were regarded as something less than human. The basis for this idea already existed in European culture in general and in Catholicism in particular, which held that those who were not believers in the ‘one, true church’ were inferior beings. Around this in the era of slavery a whole system of beliefs was erected which attempted to prove that blacks were less intelligent than whites, with smaller brains and a capacity only for manual labour. They were seen, moreover, as uncivilised and barbaric. The existence of the great black civilisations has been hidden from history - right down to the present day.



www.newint.org...



Racism is a product of capitalism. It grew out of early capitalism’s use of slaves for the plantations of the New World, it was consolidated in order to justify western and white domination of the rest of the world and it flourishes today as a means of dividing the working class between white and Muslim or black, and native and immigrants or asylum seekers.
It is necessary to examine the underlying assumptions about racism in more detail in order to arrive at the materialist analysis of it. Racism is commonly assumed to be as old as society itself. However this does not stand up to historical examination. Racism is a particular form of oppression: discrimination against people on the grounds that some inherited characteristic, for example, skin colour, makes them inferior to their oppressors.
Slavery
However, historical references indicate that class society before capitalism was able, on the whole, to do without this particular form of oppression. Bad as the society of classical Greece and Rome were it is historically reasonably well documented that the ancient Greeks and Romans knew nothing about race. Slaves were both black and white and in fact the majority of slaves were white. The first clear evidence of racism occurred at the end of the 16th century with the start of the slave trade from Africa to Britain and to America.
CLR James in his Modern Politics[1] writes that “the conception of dividing people by race begins with its slave trade. Thus this [the slave trade] was so shocking, so opposed to all the conceptions of society which religious and philosophers had . . .the only justifications by which humanity could face it was to divide people into races and decide that Africans were an inferior race"
So racism was formed by the rich and powerful as an attempt to justify the most appalling and inhuman treatment of black people in the time of the greatest accumulation of material wealth the world had seen until then.



libcom.org...

Indeed, there have been many interpretations of the problem of racism that tie directly to the rise of capitalism in the semi-modern world. If slaves were considered human, they would certainly lose some of their value as machinery.

It is an inescapable fact that the very premise of capitalism that is so thoroughly applauded in our society today is at the very root of the problems we experience with race relations.

Our founding fathers practiced slavery as a means to increase their profits and amass empires of private wealth. In a sense, when our nation, The United States of America was founded, and the document that framed our ‘God-given rights’ was written, it was accepted that slavery was a part of life.




In 1784, five years before he became president of the United States, George Washington, 52, was nearly toothless. So he hired a dentist to transplant nine teeth into his jaw--having extracted them from the mouths of his slaves…

Political capital. For one thing, the South could not afford to part with its slaves. Owning slaves was "like having a large bank account," says Wiencek, author of An Imperfect God: George Washington, His Slaves, and the Creation of America. The southern states would not have signed the Constitution without protections for the "peculiar institution," including a clause that counted a slave as three fifths of a man for purposes of congressional representation.

Link to this source

It would seem undeniable that the success of the United States as an economic, military and manufacturing powerhouse was based on the exploitation of slave labor. There is little wonder, given the pervasiveness of appreciation for the capitalistic system, that racism is still so incredibly prevalent in our society.

If you have a hard time believing this correlation, I would welcome you to take a closer look at our ‘modern’ society and see where slavery and dehumanization is still used, not only to belittle peoples of certain ethnicities or skin colors, but also how it continues to feed the gears of a giant, worldwide capitalist system that serves only purpose of making a few very wealthy at the cost of the lives of millions more.

Here are a few examples:

(Continued)




[edit on 16-9-2009 by KSPigpen]



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 01:43 PM
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Inside the house, she says, her chores began at 6:30 a.m. and ended only once Daniel Acha-Morfaw, his wife, Vivian Satia, and their three children were in bed; she worked 16 hours a day, seven days a week, for almost 1,800 days on end. If she had been earning minimum wage, well below the going rate for live-in nannies, her accumulated salary might have reached $175,000, says her attorney. But she was never paid.
Slavery is alive in America again. Today's slaves may not be bought, sold or tortured in the public square, like those in "Roots" or "Amistad," but experts with the Protection Project, an anti-trafficking program at Johns Hopkins University, estimate that 1 million undocumented immigrants are currently trapped here in slavelike conditions. (By way of comparison, perhaps 6 million Africans were shipped here between 1502 and 1808, when Congress outlawed the Atlantic slave trade.) "These are huge numbers, given the fact that people don't think this is going on," Secretary of State Madeleine Albright told NBC News earlier this year.


www.newsweek.com...


Sometimes the slavery is a little more cleverly disguised as employment.



Nike has been accused of using child labor in Cambodia. Adidas was accused of using prison labor in China and sweatshops in El Salvador. Timberland was accused of hiring 16-year old girls and paying them only 22 cents an hour, forcing them to work 98 hours a week, and exposing them to toxic chemicals. Also, "buying American" may not mean what you think you may still be paying for sweatshop labor. There are an estimated 5,000 illegal sweatshops that label their products "Made in the USA" in Los Angeles alone. (Co Op America)


www.helium.com...





So, you may ask yourself. “Why would someone pay a human being 22 cents an hour? Why would someone keep a woman or a child as a slave and force them to have sex with others? Why does the crack dealer peddle his wares?”

The answer to these questions is really very simple. MONEY.

Money is power. Profit is king. Capitalism is what this great nation espouses. Success is possible for ANYONE in America, provided you are willing and able to exploit other human beings in one way or another to make a profit.

Can’t find anyone in America anymore that you can use as cheap labor? Not a problem. Thanks to the global cancer of capitalism, you can send your work to any number of countries where there are millions of people waiting to be exploited.

You see, it’s all really very simple, if you want to look at it, and can ignore the programming you have received all of your life.

Capitalism is slavery and slavery is racism.

You just can’t separate racism from slavery and you just can’t separate slavery from capitalism.

I’m an American. I was born in this country and will probably die in this country. I have believed all of my life in this silly thing known as ‘The American Dream.’ You know the one. A dream in which any person, regardless of their skin color, or nation of origin can come to this country and make a name for themselves. They can amass wealth and have a comfortable life. What hey didn’t tell me in grade school was that this comfortable life is built on the backs of slave labor and that the grease that oils the wheels of my capitalist country is the blood of those unfortunate enough to be within reach.

When you wish to argue the point, and I’m sure you will, you need only a minor examination of your surroundings to understand the connection. We can visit that later, if you like.

Whether the slavery you capitalize on is apparent, or well hidden, it is there, my friend. I don’t know the answers for life’s great questions, but I am convinced, that as long as profit is the great motivator in life, there will always be slavery and because of that, there will always be racism.

Anyone benefiting from a system of capitalism is condoning through their acceptance of the system, the exploitation of the people who’s lives have been sacrificed, or cut short so that they can go to the supercenter and get a pair of flip flops for ninety nine cents, or drive their car, or bike on rubber tires, or have a computer to read a seemingly silly correlation between their consumerism and the very cries of ‘racism’ that they throw at each other to make a political point.










[edit on 16-9-2009 by KSPigpen]



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by KSPigpen
 


An excellent and very brave post, KSPigpen. It takes guts to do this type of article, and know one will get some very heated and angry responses.

Very intelligent and thought provoking.

The truth is that this country was built on slave labor and our Founding Fathers who talked of freedom and liberty owned slaves. The irony in that alone is priceless. The sad fact is that the War Between the States was not fought because of slavery, but to keep the Union together. If it meant keeping slavery around for another years and keep the South and North together, Lincoln would of done so.

People also love to shop at Walmart and other big savings stores where the goods are mainly produced by people who make slave wages. Capitalism is not about people, but about profit. One only needs to look at the conduct of the Robber Barons to see that.

Thank you for posting this thread.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 02:15 PM
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One thing I would like to add is that there are many people who are scared as this new century progresses. Whites will be the minority in this country as early as 2050 and maybe even sooner. That has many of them scared (I don't know why). With the election of a mixed race man as President, we have seen many subtle and not so subtle mentions of his race.

Many of us here on ATS have members of their family who are married and have mixed race children (including me). Many of us also know a lot of white people who are not having or do not want children. (It is about half of my friends.) The reality is that darker skinned people will be a majority in this country and the majority of the voting blocs.

The reality is there will not be any segregation or any type of state allowed discrimination as there was in the past.

It is my hope that people will see that there are very few actual differences between each other. We all have the same hopes and desires for ourselves and our children. I can only hope that the dialogue becomes less extreme and more tolerant of each others ideas.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 02:22 PM
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So without capitalism what system do you suggest? From my own delving communism makes everyone equal by enslaving the whole working class. Any other economic systems out there?

Also as to the slave trade of Africa it followed the path of Greek and Roman slavery. Lose in a war and you got enslaved by the victor. African tribes went to war to acquire slaves to sell to the Europeans who varied in their roles in the trade. It had less to due with whites going and catching the slaves. So the real point of this post is that any race, color, or religion will sell out their own for profit.

Hey the Muslims practiced slavery well into the 20th cent. Ever watch Hildago? It had Viggo Mortensen in it, It was set in Saudi Arabia and a little side he is given a slave to be his gopher. The whole non-believer crap of being less than human.

Slavery is not a exclusively capitalist practice, stop fretting over whether or not the white nations were using it and look at the whole picture of who when and where it is or was used!

[edit on 16-9-2009 by hangedman13]



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by hangedman13
So without capitalism what system do you suggest? From my own delving communism makes everyone equal by enslaving the whole working class. Any other economic systems out there?

Also as to the slave trade of Africa it followed the path of Greek and Roman slavery. Lose in a war and you got enslaved by the victor. African tribes went to war to acquire slaves to sell to the Europeans who varied in their roles in the trade. It had less to due with whites going and catching the slaves. So the real point of this post is that any race, color, or religion will sell out their own for profit.

Hey the Muslims practiced slavery well into the 20th cent. Ever watch Hildago? It had Viggo Mortensen in it, It was set in Saudi Arabia and a little side he is given a slave to be his gopher. The whole non-believer crap of being less than human.

Slavery is not a exclusively capitalist practice, stop fretting over whether or not the white nations were using it and look at the whole picture of who when and where it is or was used!

[edit on 16-9-2009 by hangedman13]


I don't fret, my friend, nor do I claim to have the answer to the problem or assert that only a white race is guilty of slavery. I know it's a long thread, but reading it would have revealed that position to you.

As long as mankind is driven by profit, there will never be universal freedom. Universal slavery certainly is not the answer either. I would assume that as we have not begun living in a better world yet, we either don't, as a race of humans, HAVE the solution, or we are unwilling to give up our shiny toys in the interest of all peoples being free.

This was not about religion, as was stated in the OP, and I have no desire to make it so.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 02:29 PM
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Nice thread, dude. I'm still reading through it and it'll take hours cause I'm at work and can only read bits and pieces at a time. Will post more relevant comments after reading it all.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 03:00 PM
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S&F for you, your really did your homework for this.

What you just so excellently posted is The Game.

It's what i've always said to. All money in this country has blood on it..no matter if your a drug dealer or a doctor.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by cenpuppie
S&F for you, your really did your homework for this.

What you just so excellently posted is The Game.

It's what i've always said to. All money in this country has blood on it..no matter if your a drug dealer or a doctor.


I appreciate your feedback. I have sort of a sick feeling in my stomach. Somethings might be better left for others to discover.

There is plenty of blood on my hands as well.

It gave a different perspective to me on some things I had heard all my life, and it was just an incredibly selfish adventure on my part.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 04:42 PM
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The problem with your post is that we are not in a capitalistic system. And we have not been under a capitalist system during any of those pictures.

Capital means you have something of value - that is the capital. Be it savings or whatever. You mention the need for money, there is a reason there is never enough, and it has nothing to do with capitalism at all.

Since 1913 we have been in a debt based system. Where the banks and such are able to raise false capital by adding debt out of thin air. That money is created as a loan with interest that has to be paid back.

But the interest money is never created. Thus it is literally impossible to pay it back. There is not enough money in the world to pay it back.

They loan out lets say $100 to keep it easy. But you have to pay back $105 if @ 5% interest. The extra $5 is never created. In order for 1 person to pay back that $5, it means someone else has to come up short.

The system itself is designed for people to fail. And the banks decide who makes it and who doesn't, as we seen with the bailouts. Those who are decided to make it, are given the money needed to pay back it all, and the rest of the people are then screwed and go bankrupt. Then the banks come in and buy everything up, to loan out money again in the future and repeat the process.

If this were a capitalist society, then Fractional Reserve Banking would not exist at all. Because it would only be based on existing capital, rather than being able to create capital out of thin air.

Read my sig about I want the earth plus 5% if you want to know more about it.

But it is not capitalism or free markets. They simply keep calling it these things so people won't know any better.

If you think you are sick now, just wait until you figure out the entire truth. I'll be happy to go into more detail to explain just how much of a scam it all is, but it seems most people gloss right over it so not going to waste my time unless asked.



[edit on 9/16/2009 by badmedia]



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 05:01 PM
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I fail to see how you connect capitalism with racism and slavery. No, i read your post. It got a lot of information on slavery. It has info about racism. And it mentions capitalism. I fail to see how you connect the dots though. There were no African slaves in Africa? There were no white slaves in colonies? There were no slaves in non-capitalistic societies? There was no racism and genocides before capitalism?
Explotation of less powerful people by more powerful people always existed. So it is not capitalism alone that is guilty of that.
I really do not see the connections. Sorry.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 05:06 PM
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Btw, England was under this system back in the 1600's, and so was America in those days. If you read Franklins auto-biography, you will find that the #1 reason for the revolutionary war was the Central Bank of England - who practiced fractional reserve banking.

We got away from it briefly until 1913, outside some periods of time when we had a central bank.

The founding fathers also wanted to get rid of slavery - not all of course, but the major ones we hear about do. I personally believe the writing and tone of the constitution itself set the way towards abolishing slavery. But, if they had gotten rid of it at that time completely, it would have liken been 2 countries rather than 1. Many of the founding fathers hated slavery, but it would take all the colonies/states for protection against the English, French and Spanish so they had to allow it.

People often equate States Rights with racism. But they do not realize that because of States Rights, the north was able to free slaves. If that issue had been decided 100% at the federal level, then all states would have had to have it or not have it. And while it is easy to say, oh well if they just abolished it all, then all is good. But you have to take a look at it from both ways, what if they didn't? Things like the underground railroad never could have existed without the free states that protected them and provided the safe haven. The 10th amendment is a part of the bill of rights for a reason.

We have all been economic slaves since 1913 in this country.

The issue I'm talking about here is ancient stuff. Jesus called these people the moneychangers. In the bible it is called usury. Jesus also calls them a den of vipers and theives. Because that is what usury/interest is - theft.

Normally I'm not a big fan of the guy in this video. I have alot of issues with Christians about things. But, in this particular video, he is right on the money and it is 100% worth your time to watch.


Google Video Link



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 05:32 PM
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America and the race concept

The role played by America is particularly important in generating and perpetuating the concept of "race." The human inhabitants of the Western Hemisphere largely derive from three very separate regions of the world—Northeast Asia, Northwest Europe, and Western Africa—and none of them has been in the New World long enough to have been shaped by their experiences in the manner of those long-term residents in the various separate regions of the Old World.

It was the American experience of those three separate population components facing one another on a daily basis under conditions of manifest and enforced inequality that created the concept in the first place and endowed it with the assumption that those perceived "races" had very different sets of capabilities. Those thoughts are very influential and have become enshrined in laws and regulations. This is why I can conclude that, while the word "race" has no coherent biological meaning, its continued grip on the public mind is in fact a manifestation of the power of the historical continuity of the American social structure, which is assumed by all to be essentially "correct."

Finally, because of America's enormous influence on the international scene, ideas generated by the idiosyncrasies of American history have gained currency in ways that transcend American intent or control. One of those ideas is the concept of "race," which we have exported to the rest of the world without any realization that this is what we were doing. The adoption of the biologically indefensible American concept of "race" by an admiring world has to be the ultimate manifestation of political correctness.

Dr. C. Loring Brace is professor anthropology and curator of biological anthropology at the Museum of Anthropology, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor.

Source: www.pbs.org...

Keep in mind that there is only one race - the human race.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 05:39 PM
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reply to post by badmedia
 


For starters, thank you very much for bringing yur insight to this discussion.



we are not in a capitalistic system. And we have not been under a capitalist system during any of those pictures


I disagree with your interpretation of capitalism. It is a GIVEN that our economic system is not geared towards 'normal' citizens OWNING capital privately, but someone, somewhere OWNS the capital, be it gold, resources or marks on a ledger that can be traded for something else of value. When private hands own capital, that is by definition, capitalism.



Since 1913 we have been in a debt based system. Where the banks and such are able to raise false capital by adding debt out of thin air. That money is created as a loan with interest that has to be paid back.


You will get no disagreement from me in principle on this statement. The average citizen, or slave of the world has very limited access to any real capital. But again, someone has it, and it's private, so it's capitalism.



The system itself is designed for people to fail. And the banks decide who makes it and who doesn't, as we seen with the bailouts. Those who are decided to make it, are given the money needed to pay back it all, and the rest of the people are then screwed and go bankrupt. Then the banks come in and buy everything up, to loan out money again in the future and repeat the process.

If this were a capitalist society, then Fractional Reserve Banking would not exist at all. Because it would only be based on existing capital, rather than being able to create capital out of thin air.



Just a couple issues that I would like clarification on with this one. I have no doubt that the 'system' is not geared toward the success of the common man. It's hard for me to believe that such a system is so integral to our society that it 'makes a decision' about who 'makes it' and who doesn't. I know some fairly wealthy people that got that way through hard work, running multiple businesses and making prudent investments and decisions. I also knew some fairly successful criminals who made a good living, without the 'approval' of the system. Whether it is a plantation owner, or an international banking conglomerate, money is earned, or acquired, capital is amassed by private individuals, again, capitalism.




The issue I'm talking about here is ancient stuff. Jesus called these people the moneychangers. In the bible it is called usury. Jesus also calls them a den of vipers and theives. Because that is what usury/interest is - theft.


I do see your point on this and have no doubt that the love of money is the root of all evil. Whether I have bought slaves to provide me with a greater profit, or enslaved a world to live off of the interest of their payments to me, I have still enslaved for the sole purpose of acquiring more wealth. My PRIVATE wealth.

It is still my assertion that as long as there is even an ILLUSION of a capitalistic system in place, people will be exploited. Those people that are exploited will have to be dehumanized to justify their exploitation and that dehumanization is in fact racism.

To me though, it is still a capitalistic system, even if the capital never actually belongs to me, or anyone I know, or anyone I've ever met. as long as greed rules, then there will be slaves. As long as I can live in the illusion that I will make a profit if I cut corners and employ child labor, or slave labor then the temptation will be there for me to do just that.

Again, I appreciate you input and am looking forward to learning more about what you're speaking of.




[edit on 16-9-2009 by KSPigpen]



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
I fail to see how you connect capitalism with racism and slavery. No, i read your post. It got a lot of information on slavery. It has info about racism. And it mentions capitalism. I fail to see how you connect the dots though. There were no African slaves in Africa? There were no white slaves in colonies? There were no slaves in non-capitalistic societies? There was no racism and genocides before capitalism?
Explotation of less powerful people by more powerful people always existed. So it is not capitalism alone that is guilty of that.
I really do not see the connections. Sorry.


The assertion, my friend, is that the very exploitation you mention (as did I) that has existed for all of history is driven by one factor. Capitalism. By forcing my slaves to build my pyramids, for example, my resources, food, gold, etc do not need to be paid to my labor force. I can therefore accumulate much more wealth, or capital.

The term 'capitalism' is a fairly recent addition to the human vernacular. The underlying motivation, greed, is as old as man. Take the goal of capitalism, to own wealth or resources and apply that to any situation, any person, any profession, any war....and then perhaps you could explain to me how you feel the amassing of wealth, or land, or other 'capital' through exploited peoples, who then become 'less than' to justify their treatment does not offer a valid explanation for racism.

The beautiful thing about this life is that you really don't have to 'see' the connection, or how the dots are drawn.

Thanks for stopping by. I hope to hear more about your opinions.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 05:49 PM
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reply to post by Nichiren
 


I'm going to have to read that a few more times, as I am not a professor of Anthropology.

But this:



Keep in mind that there is only one race - the human race.


Made perfect sense to me.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 06:14 PM
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Originally posted by KSPigpen
I disagree with your interpretation of capitalism. It is a GIVEN that our economic system is not geared towards 'normal' citizens OWNING capital privately, but someone, somewhere OWNS the capital, be it gold, resources or marks on a ledger that can be traded for something else of value. When private hands own capital, that is by definition, capitalism.


The problem is that any such "capital" one might get has no value, because everyone is in the end made to accept the dollar as legal tender. Because the dollar itself is able to change in value on any given day, the capital itself is rendered worthless except for the time period when you turn that capital(most likely a commodity) in exchange for the dollar.

Not to mention, that the dollar itself is able to create "capital" out of nothing, which in turn really brings all that capital down to being worthless. As the capital in dollars can always be created again out of thin air.

What gives that commodity it's value is supply and demand. There is no way around that, which I think is what you are saying. As long as there is limited supply, and demand, that item will have a value. The only time there is no value is when that item is in abundance. Take air for example, plenty of it to go around, no value(today anyway).

So with money in the current system it is an unlimited resource. It's just a number and can go on into infinity. As such, it renders all capital worthless in reality, and the entire game the central banks play is to keep that illusion of capital and value there by limiting the amount of money in circulation. However, at their finger tips lies an unlimited amount of "capital" by today's standards.



You will get no disagreement from me in principle on this statement. The average citizen, or slave of the world has very limited access to any real capital. But again, someone has it, and it's private, so it's capitalism.


No sir, that is not capitalism and free market principles. If it was even for everyone, then it would be capitalism. Equal opportunity and so forth.

Obviously there is an element in society that is above all others and has absolute power in this world. That is the definition of despotism.






Just a couple issues that I would like clarification on with this one. I have no doubt that the 'system' is not geared toward the success of the common man. It's hard for me to believe that such a system is so integral to our society that it 'makes a decision' about who 'makes it' and who doesn't. I know some fairly wealthy people that got that way through hard work, running multiple businesses and making prudent investments and decisions. I also knew some fairly successful criminals who made a good living, without the 'approval' of the system. Whether it is a plantation owner, or an international banking conglomerate, money is earned, or acquired, capital is amassed by private individuals, again, capitalism.


I also have many things to be thankful for. I'm not rich, I still have to work and so forth, but I'm happy for what I have and I love my job so much it's not even like a job.

But don't think for a minute that these very people can not or won't be brought to their knees at a moments notice. It happened in 1929, it's happening right now. Because in the end, those who control the money control it all.

And while a race car may still be able to make it around the track while pulling a big huge load on it's back, it's much faster and does much better without it.

The colonies flourished in the 1600's because they bypassed the central bank of England and they created their own money. They only issued the money in direct proportion to the amount of trade done. And they did so without it being a loan, and without interest. They did it so that the prices of things generally stayed the same, outside increase/decrease in supply and demand. Any money created went to government services, tax and loan free etc. It had the sole purpose of easing trade, not creating false capital.

This is what lead to all those taxes being added. England was furious and punished the colonies for it with taxes etc.



I do see your point on this and have no doubt that the love of money is the root of all evil. Whether I have bought slaves to provide me with a greater profit, or enslaved a world to live off of the interest of their payments to me, I have still enslaved for the sole purpose of acquiring more wealth. My PRIVATE wealth.

It is still my assertion that as long as there is even an ILLUSION of a capitalistic system in place, people will be exploited. Those people that are exploited will have to be dehumanized to justify their exploitation and that dehumanization is in fact racism.


The only way to ever get away from a capitalist system is to get rid of supply and demand. These basic principles will apply to all things, even communist systems for example. The only thing that really changes would be who decides who gets what wealth and how/why.

And you hear people talk about abundance systems. That would be the ideal system, because then if supply is well above demand, the value drops to 0. The problem with that however is that we do have limited resources. And as long as you have limited resources, you will have supply and demand.

Maybe someday technology will get us to the point where we can have an abundance system. But it's not going to matter if we don't come up with a fair system today, because we aren't going to make it to that point. And in order to get a fair system today, we need free market principles and an honest monetary system.

We are currrently in a system the opposite of abundance. We are in a system where due to the loans and interest it by default creates a system where people are designed to fail. Going towards an honest system is a direct step towards one day being in a system of abundance, which is the only thing that will get rid of what you are talking about, because it's the only thing that can get rid of the laws of supply and demand.

Because those things are just the effects of supply and demand really, not capitalism.




To me though, it is still a capitalistic system, even if the capital never actually belongs to me, or anyone I know, or anyone I've ever met. as long as greed rules, then there will be slaves. As long as I can live in the illusion that I will make a profit if I cut corners and employ child labor, or slave labor then the temptation will be there for me to do just that.


Again, this is all supply and demand. By going towards an honest monetary system and so forth, it will release the leaches on our supply, and that in itself will help a huge majority of these problems.

Those things happen regardless of system, it's an effect of supply and demand which is a law just like gravity.

[edit on 9/16/2009 by badmedia]



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 07:18 PM
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reply to post by badmedia
 





The problem is that any such "capital" one might get has no value, because everyone is in the end made to accept the dollar as legal tender. Because the dollar itself is able to change in value on any given day, the capital itself is rendered worthless except for the time period when you turn that capital(most likely a commodity) in exchange for the dollar.


I suppose this may be where the confusion is coming in for me. The capital I can obtain, or my family, or associates, has no real value, but not everyone has to play by the same rules. My rules are not the same as Donald Trump's rules and his rules are not the same Bill Gates' rules and his aren't the same as those that are really in charge.

I get the whole 'hidden system' and 'puppet' thing, but I still firmly believe that TRUE capital is possessed by someone. As long as there is anyone at the top, striving for and possessing more capital, the whole system must be capitalist. We can certainly have little bubbles of oil mixed in to the vinegar, but there is still vinegar.

It seems to me that the TRUE possessors of capital would have no use for the silly currency they have forced on us, except perhaps to buy and sell our labors or allegiances.



No sir, that is not capitalism and free market principles. If it was even for everyone, then it would be capitalism. Equal opportunity and so forth.


Capitalism: an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, esp. as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.


No distinction made here for the NUMBER of people in 'ownership.'


Despotism: 1. the rule of a despot; the exercise of absolute authority. 2. absolute power or control; tyranny. 3. an absolute or autocratic government. 4. a country ruled by a despot.


Now THIS is a word I can sink my teeth in to.


I think I'm finally following what your saying. It doesn't really impact the origins of racism, in my opinion as the system WAS capitalistic when the concept and negative implications of racism were developed and those seeds, in my opinion, were sown so deeply that it is precisely those ideals that manifest themselves today with negativity towards an ethnicity.

I must admit that I am enjoying getting schooled though.




So with money in the current system it is an unlimited resource. It's just a number and can go on into infinity. As such, it renders all capital worthless in reality, and the entire game the central banks play is to keep that illusion of capital and value there by limiting the amount of money in circulation. However, at their finger tips lies an unlimited amount of "capital" by today's standards.


Perhaps we're going in circles here, or I am, but money, being the infinite resource only eliminates the value of 'capital' based on that currency, correct? 'They' can artificially stimulate the 'value' of their 'money' but it doesn't really effect the value of whatever capital 'they' might have that is not limited by being based on their currency. am I way off base on this?



Any money created went to government services, tax and loan free etc. It had the sole purpose of easing trade, not creating false capital.


It's understood that the money created in colonial times was not for creating false capital, my friend, but trade was not used as simply a means to swap a bar of soap for a loaf of bread. It was used then and previously for the accumulation of wealth. My family working the fields made little profit, but an army of slaves allowed the size of my farm and thus my yield to be greatly increased, resulting in more wealth. To justify their servitude to me, I had to marginalize their intelligence and at least pretend to convince myself that I was justified in my actions. My increased yields were traded, for money, which represented wealth. Regardless of the 'truth' of the presence of capitalism in the system, my belief was in capitalism. As fas as I knew, I OWNED my slaves, and I OWNED my wealth. The more slaves I had, the more 'wealth' I could amass.




Those things happen regardless of system, it's an effect of supply and demand which is a law just like gravity.


'Supply and demand,' in my opinion is no more a 'law' then not whistling in bed. I realize I have no authority to make that determination, but like anything else, I have an opinion.
It is a principle, based on greed and the acquisition of wealth. They call it a law, because that's all we know. If something is more scarce, you can get a higher price for it, the value doesn't go up, you can just bone your customers out of more of their fake money for it, because they can't get it anywhere else. It's a principle created to rationalize the gouging of a customer, nothing more.



The only way to ever get away from a capitalist system is to get rid of supply and demand. These basic principles will apply to all things, even communist systems for example. The only thing that really changes would be who decides who gets what wealth and how/why.

And you hear people talk about abundance systems. That would be the ideal system, because then if supply is well above demand, the value drops to 0. The problem with that however is that we do have limited resources. And as long as you have limited resources, you will have supply and demand.


again, I am ever so thankful that you have had the compassion and patience to help a fellow human being get a better understanding of the possibilities and limitations of our current system and what it would take to move beyond that. I am in awe of your contribution.

I hope that we can all look forward to reading more about your beliefs in more detail.

Perhaps it's a stubborn streak, but I still believe that slave labor led to racism and that slave labor was motivated by capitalism.

The effects of that exchange being felt today are far removed from their original overt expressions witnessed when the behavior and beliefs were created to justify the practice, but they can trace their lineage to the enslavement of peoples motivated by the accumulation of wealth.

If I get too frustrating, you can just smack me. My thick head is genetic, I'm sure.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 07:40 PM
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KS Pig Pen I looked at your post days ago cause before I saw it I said to my mom in the car, I dont want any of the crazy theorists without proof to come and find me for whatever reason. I read through some of your crazy politcs of the past or world. I had this problem of living on sidelines or behind glass of life not fully here or strange perspectives not able to appreciate life to the fullest. For whatever reason beyond rationale, you know they wouldnt stop sort through crazy impossibilites of "why" maybe they shouldve worked out a deal with who or if they are exploiting at times. Waste of time here trapped and for whatever reason its not going to stop , if anything happens could just cease to exist like before born (didnt follow rules) erased just an experiment for everyone else. What does the "k" stand for or the "S" or the pig pen.



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