A Message To Christians... A Message of Peace...

I thought the members here, especially, would be least likely to follow any religion.

I thought you guys were above that.

Religion is simply to quell the masses.

History repeats itself and well, did you guys eat the medieval chapters out of your history books? (not that our history books are even accurate anymore)

I just don't even know where to begin.

I can ask questions like why didn't the bible mention dinosaurs, or why didn't god see satan betraying him but why even bother. Its like questioning Santa Clause's suit as not being warm enough to live in the arctic.

I'm not here to offend anyone, but honestly, don't come to a site about truth and talk about fairy tales.

Your not that weak minded people, your not a sheep and you don't need a shepard.

reply to post by The_Zomar


By no means am I any of the Abrahamic religions, but I would urge you to open your mind to some of the messages within the different religions.

There is wisdom beyond our most deepest thoughts in some of the books that inspire the dreadful religion you speak of...

I am agnostic, but can recognize universal message that can teach us all something..

Im just saying, instead of giving precedence to all the flaws man has included and interpreted in some of these age old teachings...Look at them with an open mind and heart....look past the interpretations that other men have imposed on it and use them as help in understanding the world around us...

Because believe it or not...even though they are quite old...they still have a great value in todays modern world. Just as the ancient teachings of buddha and confuscionism and hinduism all have their own universal messages found within their texts..You would be surprised at the similarities between the ancient eastern religions and even the most evangelical of todays Christians!

Does that make sense? Sometimes I am not the most articulate...

reply to post by open_eyeballs


Makes sense to me and I believe reading religious readings for their message is okay, but it gripes me when Christians refer to other religions (especially middle eastern religions like their trained to hate) as believing in False Gods.

The bible doesn't have to be real to learn from it, and you SHOULDN'T take fiction literature for real.

A lot of Christians I meet (all, but I won't stereotype) don't even follow the message they preach. I mean, every christian soldier is hypocritical.

I doubt there are many that believe the same way I do if any, but I believe in this day and age only truth is of value and we need to throw out all the BS. I'm a very questioning person, I would never follow something that doesn't even have a shred of proof.

I may come off as a little extreme, and maybe I am wrong in that I should let people believe what they want but however that is not the case. Most (not being stereotypical) Christians are Christian because their parents were. They don't choose the religion because it was right for them, they "chose" it because their parents chose it. (whom got it from their parents)

Call me crazy but religion is pretty intense mind control. Killing will condemn your soul to hell unless your killing for god and country, right?

Am I the only one who feels this way?



[edit on 21-8-2009 by The_Zomar]

reply to post by The_Zomar


I get where you are coming from. You have many valid points. To which I very much agree with. My only point was (as an agnostic person) theres much to learn from the teachings of each religion.

I do my best to ignore the man made dogma attached to each religions practices.

I believe for the most part each religion is man made also, but there is a wisdom that begs the answer where did these ancient people get this wisdom from?

Of course as an agnostic im left with my conclusion that a conclusion can not be made...

the typcal fence sitter that I am...

reply to post by The_Zomar


I don't understand how you can call it mind control and quelling the masses, when you also say that they are all hypocrites?

How is mind control functional when no one follows the rules set forth?

Religion is nothing more then something to help us comprehend of the fact that we matter nothing to the universe. That when I die it won't stop the fact that some x billion years from now the sun will explode and erase from history everything about me.

And yes, I am catholic, and yes, I do understand the facts of the universe.

It's not something bellow you to follow a faith. That's just ignorant. The greatest people of this earth have been atheists, and Catholics. They have been everyone. Religion does not make you lesser. It is merely a characteristic. I fail to see what praying 5 times a day does to make you lesser of a person to you. I also fail to see where going to a building once a week makes that person lesser. I also fail to see how not doing that makes you better. It really makes no sense to judge someone for taking a piece out of their day to talk to someone they believe loves them.

Originally posted by tinfoilman
reply to post by Odessy

 

So you're saying that we're worse off today because of the war? What about WWI and WWII and the Vietnam war? What about those wars?

As for the depression? Well I personally think we're better off today than we were during the depression. At least today we are. I'm about to prove it by going to the fridge and getting me a sandwich. I'll brb.

If you read my post, its not only war, and when I say "today" I believe you can include the last 100 years...
WWI and WWII we joined in the battle past the half way way point. We werent the once instigating the attack (except with Japan which I've already mentioned in a previous post), and the vietnam war is just as bad as the Iraq war. All happened with a Christian majority.
If you add up my other points as well, you should see why I think today, as in the past century, it the worst we've ever been.
We've plundered our recourses, poisoned our foods, and put in a system of corrupt govt that I have no idea how to fix.

so be careful of that sandwich, unless its organic its pumped full of pesticides and toxins.

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Odessy]

Originally posted by open_eyeballs
reply to post by tinfoilman

 

Catholocism is Christianity. Theres no two ways about it. They believe Jesus Christ died on the Cross. thats all it takes to be qualified as Christian. In fact they were the first Christians. All other sects of Christianity basically derive off of the Catholics dogma...

some people prefer to separate us by our differences.
others like to unify us by our likenesses.

reply to post by Spiritfilled


Africa is the way it is due to a Christian nation... Great Britain.
and their are a TON of missionaries in Africa today.

Back in the day, when Britain, blessed by 'god', decided it had the right to own everything, they went into africa and split up territories. When they did this, tribes that were once the majority were split, and other tribes saw their opportunity to attack.
So I would say the current situation in Africa stems from a Christian nation's greed.

reply to post by Gorman91


Hey man, I agree with you.
I think people are the reason the world is in such a poor state.
This should show that obviously religion is doing nothing because the world keeps getting worse. We've used up so many recourses, polluted our beautiful planet, and slayed our fellow human. Obviously religion isn't fixing things...

We need to start looking within ourselves for the right answers, because they are there.
Only by unifying and loving one another are we going to fix this mess we've ALL created. That can only happen by learning to love ourselves first.

Originally posted by PRS395
Have you heard a Christian say that, Christianity is the only religion and if you don't convert, you will be killed?

Actually, that is the entire message of Christianity. But actually, it's much worse than that. Death is nothing, they teach that not only will you be killed but you were suffer for eternity burning in hell.

Even in recent events like the Iraq war, many didn't oppose it because they were "arabs and muslims". AOK to kill those people?

The truth of the matter is that Christianity is the "anti-christ" religion Jesus and others warn about. The form of Christianity people know today has been brought about because they killed anyone who didn't go along. Not only killed, but tortured and burned them as well, in the public for all to see.

Christianity does not follow Jesus, it follows Paul. Paul who does just as is warned, appeals to the political powers of the time and even has a book named after them. Paul who doesn't even know Jesus during his time, goes against the disciples on a few occasions and so forth.

So, Christianity is a new religion that comes after the time of Jesus, is created in his name, appeals to and/or "decieves" even the elect, becomes one of the most powerful forces in the world, and it then goes around killing everyone who doesn't agree with them. OMG, that sounds just like the "left behind" series.

Christians just don't see it because they keep looking everywhere else but their own religion.



[edit on 8/21/2009 by badmedia]

Originally posted by Odessy
The obvious conclusion I've come up with, is that the more Christians there are in the world... (flame time)... the worse off we've become...

That's not true. Christians have setup schools, hospitals, etc... to help people.

Originally posted by Odessy
Never have there been more christians than there are today, and never has the world been in such a mess (thats we know of).

What mess is there?

Originally posted by Odessy
I can go on and on about how the majority of christians act in our world today regarding war, materialism, and in many other aspects of our daily lives, but I think my thought above makes it quite obvious...

There's nothing wrong with going to war. The US Founding Fathers went to war. Paul talks about it in Romans 13:1-4
Pacifism is Biblical for the individual Christian but in the collective sense of a government. There has to be something to restrain evil, kind of like Hitler.

Originally posted by Odessy
Jesus was very buddhist in his teachings.

Jesus was before buddah.
What mess has Christians started?

Thanks,
TT

Originally posted by texastig
That's not true. Christians have setup schools, hospitals, etc... to help people.

With the left hand, and worked in darkness with the right hand. Although it is a bit unfair to group them all up as 1 in this case - in both directions. But if you want to treat people as a group like this, then you must also attach all the bad things Christians do. Otherwise, you are just hiding the bad behind the good, aka left hand and right hand.

What mess is there?

How about the economic slavery going on for starters?

There's nothing wrong with going to war. The US Founding Fathers went to war. Paul talks about it in Romans 13:1-4
Pacifism is Biblical for the individual Christian but in the collective sense of a government. There has to be something to restrain evil, kind of like Hitler.

As I said before, Christianity is all about Paul. Jesus didn't do such things, and I'm pretty sure the phrase was "blessed are the peacemakers", not "blessed are the warmakers and call anyone who doesn't go along a pansy".

As well, Jesus said those who try to save themselves will lose themselves. The entire justification for war is about saving yourselves and so forth.

Christianity teaches the sacrifice of truth(Jesus), so that the live may live. They conspired against him for that reason, they killed him for that reason, and it's all a Satanic religion built on sacrifice.

Btw, the kind of sacrifice you think Jesus is, is considered the least form of sacrifice in the OT, and is only valid against the sins the person was unaware they had done wrong. It does not in any way provide atonement. The greatest way is to repent for your sins, or to fix your mistakes. To which Jesus provides an example of how to fix it - including where he died rather than taking up evil and fighting back.

Go learn what this means - I desire mercy, not sacrifice.

Jesus was before buddah.
What mess has Christians started?

Buddha was like 300-400 years before Jesus.

reply to post by Odessy


As far as I'm aware, religion was never made to save the world and answer it's problems, at least no major religion. All modern religions seek to better the local region, make it a model society, and then convert the next town to that same religion Leaders may do otherwise, but every single religion started that way before it got big.

Looking to religion to save the world is like asking God, Allah, or whatever to save the world. He won't. Because the people who fix their own problems rather then leach onto someone who can do it in a flash is a people who will endure forever. No one likes leaches.

reply to post by badmedia


But only the leaders of the religion do that. What's wrong with the people?

Also, I've yet to see a majority say they supported the Iraq war to kill Muslims. That's just wrong. Polls show Americans mostly don't trust Muslims, but they do not support killing them.

For example, in "Charlie Wilson's War", a starch old right wing Christian won't support Carlie's war because he doesn't want to help the, or hates Muslims. I forget which, watch it. But the second he takes a trip to see the problems of society and the need for some help in fighting the soviets, this senator starts chanting "Allah Akbar" joyously along side the Muslims.

That's the mindset of most Americans. We do not trust what we do not know. But once we see something wrong, we support fixing it.

The Iraq war was sold to us as a war against a dangerous man whit genocidal tendencies and WMD. We believed our president because there was no reason not to. Once we learned the truth, most of us abandoned the war. No hatred for Muslims, just hatred for lying politicians.

reply to post by texastig


I've already answered those question, and Buddha was way before Jesus...

reply to post by Odessy


I kind of like to think Buddha was somehow an earlier Jesus. Every society has their Jesus-like figures.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by badmedia

 

I've seen that movie a bunch of times, that gus guy makes that movie IMO. He doesn't want to give it to them because he views them as an enemy/crazy.

But only the leaders of the religion do that. What's wrong with the people?

Also, I've yet to see a majority say they supported the Iraq war to kill Muslims. That's just wrong. Polls show Americans mostly don't trust Muslims, but they do not support killing them.

For example, in "Charlie Wilson's War", a starch old right wing Christian won't support Carlie's war because he doesn't want to help the, or hates Muslims. I forget which, watch it. But the second he takes a trip to see the problems of society and the need for some help in fighting the soviets, this senator starts chanting "Allah Akbar" joyously along side the Muslims.

That's the mindset of most Americans. We do not trust what we do not know. But once we see something wrong, we support fixing it.

The Iraq war was sold to us as a war against a dangerous man whit genocidal tendencies and WMD. We believed our president because there was no reason not to. Once we learned the truth, most of us abandoned the war. No hatred for Muslims, just hatred for lying politicians.

Proverbs 8:5 O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart.

A good heart can overcome any deception.

People are only responsible for themselves. Just because some of them have done bad things doesn't mean that they all have, nor should those who haven't be made to stand "trial" for those who did.

That is why I said before it was a bit unfair to generalize in such a way. But if someone wants to generalize Christianity in pointing out the good things, then we must also attach the bad things as well.

Plus, I'm not generally one who thinks the majority of people are going to hell. I think those in Christianity are for the most part just poor in spirit. They do not know the truth and so forth because it has been blinded to them. They have replacement for things in the bible and it keeps them from understanding. While it "is what it is", all things happen for a reason. When the truth is finally uncovered for them and they gain true understanding, they will no longer do the bad things they were deceived into doing.

After all, you only need to deceive good people into doing bad things. I just think those people do good things because of their heart, and is not a reflection of Christianity in itself. Not because of, but in spite of.

I'll be happy when the majority of the world acts and follows the way of Jesus, rather than half the world praising/worshiping Jesus while walking the path of death and destruction.

I'm not a Christian because I believe it's his life and example that matters, and don't worship his death as being that what saves me. If the truth has to be sacrificed in order for me to live, then it means I'm living in the lie.


[edit on 8/21/2009 by badmedia]

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Odessy

 

I kind of like to think Buddha was somehow an earlier Jesus. Every society has their Jesus-like figures.

Understanding is universal and available to any who seek it, regardless of race, social/economic status, culture or time period. Because it is understanding in itself, there are many different ways to express that understanding.

Jesus speaks in parables to give understanding, which he says directly when asked why he speaks in them. I love that understanding and it is by that understanding that I recognize the father in Jesus.

But religion has taken that understanding and made it into about idols to worship and so forth. Manipulates it into being about acceptance rather than understanding. Despite the bible itself even saying otherwise. It went from applying the understanding Jesus gave in order to improve life and follow the best way to live, into a "Jesus died for my sins" while they walk a path of death and destruction, contrary to all the basic principles of the understanding. It is for that reason that all forms of religion in such a literal form are "anti-christ" because that are anti-understanding.

It's the equivilant of watching the matrix movie, and saying - wow that was really deep and said alot about the wrongs in our society, and then someone coming along saying - worship neo, the machines are real and then they proceeded to kill them if they didn't go along. And of course, the powers that be are more than happy to press that literal because it continues the problems for which they are very good at profiting from.

reply to post by open_eyeballs


Yeah and somewhere in there I think they lost the original message. In other words when the priests started molesting children and the church tried to cover it up it was no longer Christian. In fact, it wasn't Christian long before that. When they tried to hide what the Bible said from the common folk that, that wasn't a Christian thing to do. Heck from the very first day the Catholics took the message of Jesus and turned it around for their own use. They can say it is Christian, you can say it is, but that doesn't make it so. That's not Christian in my book. That's something else.

If I did the things that the Catholic church has done, my own church would excommunicate me. It's illogical to think that a Christian church would excommunicate me for doing things that the Catholic church has done, and that somehow the Catholic church is still Christian. Well, if that's the case then perhaps Catholics are Christians and I am not. Perhaps I'm the one that has a different religion. Hmmm, I wonder what I will call it?

They're something else, but it ain't Christian. Remember, just because someone says it's Christian doesn't mean it is.

Originally posted by Odessy

Originally posted by tinfoilman
reply to post by Odessy

 

So you're saying that we're worse off today because of the war? What about WWI and WWII and the Vietnam war? What about those wars?

As for the depression? Well I personally think we're better off today than we were during the depression. At least today we are. I'm about to prove it by going to the fridge and getting me a sandwich. I'll brb.

If you read my post, its not only war, and when I say "today" I believe you can include the last 100 years...
WWI and WWII we joined in the battle past the half way way point. We werent the once instigating the attack (except with Japan which I've already mentioned in a previous post), and the vietnam war is just as bad as the Iraq war. All happened with a Christian majority.
If you add up my other points as well, you should see why I think today, as in the past century, it the worst we've ever been.
We've plundered our recourses, poisoned our foods, and put in a system of corrupt govt that I have no idea how to fix.

so be careful of that sandwich, unless its organic its pumped full of pesticides and toxins.

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Odessy]

No you cannot include the last 100 years in TODAY. All those wars are over. I asked you about today and by definition a day is 1 day long. Not 100 years long.

Wow, you really sound like a spoiled child. You sound like you're sitting there watching cable TV and playing on the computer at your mom's house while mommy and daddy pay for everything while you get on the computer and complain how bad life is.

Are you emo or something? Look, when the doom and collapse comes, then let me know how bad America is alright? Or, go get off your butt and do something about it.

In the past century? I guess America was a more beautiful country to you when we were killing Indians and shipping slaves over to whip. Also, nice way to go back and add WWII into and say last century? I didn't ask you about last century. WWII is over. I asked you if you thought America was the worst it has ever been TODAY!

Then you go and extend TODAY to be 100 years ago? Of course you did, because you know we're a lot better today than we were during those times. Sounds like you're just stretching to have a negative view. So, let me put you to a little exercise. See if you can expand your mind? What's not negative? What are the positive things you like about America?

Or are you just here to bash?