A Message To Christians... A Message of Peace...

Originally posted by Odessy
reply to post by Gorman91

 

The minority I speak of on ATS is merely an observation.
I've seen more open minded christians on ATS than in the "real world."

2ndly, as far as your statistics are concerned, look up statistics right after 9/11.
Look at how many people were ready to fight back, get payback.
A MAJORITY supported the war efforts.

so much for turn the other cheek eh?

now its clear to see 9/11 was an inside job, that the war is a mess, of course people are realizing this now and saying, "oh, wait, I changed my mind, the war is bad." The majority played right into the hands of those that wanted the war... they KNEW what we would support a war.
If we said no, no war, lets just pump up our defense and show they can't change our daily lives, well, there wouldn't be over a million dead civilians in Iraq.

If everyone would worry about their own inner enlightenment, we wouldn't have killed over 120 million of our own kind in the 20th century alone...

So yes, your stats may be correct today, but it sure wasn't so when Bush was in office and we saw those towers fall.
Sure, the stats may be like that today, but they won't be tomorrow when when something else happens and everyone gets they nickers in a twist again.

to "turn the other cheek" applies to a slap on the cheek in insult, NOT a gunshot or bomb. to "turn the other cheek" is to show someone that you are not dissuaded by their insult.

reply to post by Gorman91


I think we are ALL responsible for making the world a better place.
You, Me, Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, PEOPLE.
many of each group are, in fact, making the world a better place, little by little...

But I'm speaking majority, and the point of this thread was, and still is, why the hell is the world such a corrupt place when the religion claimed (in the US and europe) to be superior is in charge?
They are the majority and yet we are in more turd now than ever?
Obviously something is wrong with that.

Originally posted by Spiritfilled
to "turn the other cheek" applies to a slap on the cheek in insult, NOT a gunshot or bomb. to "turn the other cheek" is to show someone that you are not dissuaded by their insult.

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth. But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well."
Matthew 5:38-40

So no. What Jesus was saying is that an eye for an eye is not the right answer.
So why would that not apply to a gun shot, or a bomb?

reply to post by Gorman91

Why should all Christians be held accountable for improving the world, and why should they even bother? Jesus taught to work in your local area and work there.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, I've been saying this for years. Get your own house in order before you come knocking on poor countries doors passing around the collection plate.

Sounds bad, but isn't that life? I'm not responsible to help people. Just because some quote from the bible says that doesn't mean I have to.

I rest my case...

reply to post by Odessy

the majority of the world are christians...

I just wanted to say this is not an accurate statement. The majority of the world is not Christian. Though Christianity is the world largest religion with around roughly 2 billion people who believe Jesus Christ was the son of God with the common interpretation of the Bible.

I believe confusionism/ buddhism/ hinduism (although all are different and can be considered religious lifestyle) comes in a close second with just under 2 billion people...

But you have made an accurate conclusion. I would say the majority of the modern world is Christian (majority probably being in the 50 percentile) and most of the worlds problems do come from the modern world...

Originally posted by PRS395


Have you heard a Christian say that, Christianity is the only religion and if you don't convert, you will be killed?


Pray to what ever god you want and leave me to pray for mine, and stop trying to take away Christmas and the other Christian holidays from me!

Yes, I have heard that. In fact, that is EXACTLY what christians have said throughout history...
Look at the spanish missionaries.
Look at the crusades.
Look at EVERY Holy War in history.

Today it may not be, "believe in christianity or be killed," instead its, "believe in christianity or suffer an eternity in hell... by our peaceful, loving, and forgiving god."

believe me, no one is going to take away your corporate holidays, the majority of the world is christian.

I'm glad you are not like many christians, like I said, many her on ATS are more open minded.

reply to post by open_eyeballs

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3f007e77c0be.gif[/atsimg]

reply to post by Odessy

A lot of my family and old friends are very Christian... and somehow they've all been lead to believe that killing in War is ok, and that God told us to follow mans law here on earth...

Killing in war has never been a biblical sin. Murder is. That means if you have lived a righteous life but have killed during battle that you will still reap the benefits of living a devout religious life. According to the Old Testament you are absolutely entitled to your riches in heaven even though you killed during battle...

Where murdering someone unjustifiably will and you in the depths of hell. Especially if you have not "repented."

I believe the reason they (the authors of teh Bible) used the word "murder" specifically was intended to inspire and allow fellow jews to enable the warrior on the battlefield to kill without hesitation or remorse. Knowing they were not breaking "Gods" law while doing so...

are you actually stupid enough to belive that that the modern world leaders are christians? one word: ILLUMINATI!

reply to post by Odessy


thanks..
Exactly...combine "traditional chinese" (confusionism), buddhism and hinduism..

what do you get?

the second largest...

Of course they are not the same...thats is why i said religious lifestyles...none of those belief systems are actually "religions" per say.

reply to post by Spiritfilled


the famous "Illuminati" were a mix of Christians, athiests, gnostics and occult beliefs...occult beliefs are close to the judeo-christian beliefs...from what i understand

reply to post by open_eyeballs


Well, you can believe what you want, obviously, but killing is still evil imo, and evil will only beget more evil.

Ghandi freed india by telling his followers not to kill a singe person, though thousands of indians were killed.

I think this is one of those things where we dig deep down inside to see whats right and wrong.

What category does dropping those two atomic bombs in Japan fall into?
I suppose its a matter of perspective right?
We dropped them over civilian cities, after Japan gave up.
I would call that murder, the US called it war.

How about the 1,000,000+ civilians killed in iraq?

Talk to a vietnam vet. I don't know one who isn't haunted by the things that happened there.

Peace has been PROVEN to work.
yet, even as a history buff in high school, I don't remember being taught anything about Ghandi...

an eye for an eye leaves the world blind.

reply to post by Spiritfilled


Um,,, when it walks like a duck...

Who might you be referring to?

If they aren't Christian why do the Christians keep voting them in? Surely no one can be that stupid -> as you said.

Originally posted by open_eyeballs
reply to post by Odessy

 

thanks..

Exactly...combine "traditional chinese" (confusionism), buddhism and hinduism..

what do you get?

the second largest...

Of course they are not the same...thats is why i said religious lifestyles...none of those belief systems are actually "religions" per say.

With the exception of what China is doing to its OWN citizens, I don't think I've ever heard of a war in the name of buddha...
unlike Bush who clearly stated God was on our side.

EDIT TO ADD:
and imo, Hinduism is A LOT different than buddhism... though each have great merits.
I mean, by my standards I would throw Buddha and Jesus in the same category yet the religions are so different.


[edit on 21-8-2009 by Odessy]

reply to post by Odessy

let he who is without sin throw the first stone,"

It is commonly believed by religious scholars that Jesus, in fact, did not say this...

and, "If someone slaps you on your right cheek, turn your other cheek to him as well."

Many interpret this story to be about peace, or not an eye for an eye as the old testament goes into. This is where a good knowledge of history helps to shed light on the true intentions of Christs teachings. Hopefully I can share this story in as few words as possible.

OK during during Jesus' time, Jews were looked upon as second class citizens and even were slaves in many cases. Common knowledge. But what people are not aware of were common unwritten laws of the day. When a Roman soldier decided to reprimand a slave, he could only do it with the palm of his hand. He was not allowed to hit (with a clenched fist) or the back of his hand. If the roman did so the slave had the right to defend himself and could fight back. So Jesus told his fellow Jews to turn the other cheek. Now think about it. If you turned the other cheek while someone was slapping you across the face, wha tdoes that force that person to do? Use the back of his hand to continue beating you or stop. So, if a Roman used the back of his hand the Jew could then retaliate without reprocussion.
Hence the purpose in Jesus' teaching. All to often people forget Jesus was a Jew. he loved his people and wanted to help them the best way he knew how...

these are the same reason many consider jesus to have been a rebellious person. he was against the "man"..the man being teh Roman Empire. he was not a fan of the Roman Empire..to say the least...

Jesus was also an alarmist. An armageddonist...he believed his generatio would see the end of teh world...

Obviously, he was wrong about that.

reply to post by Odessy


Star and flag for all the work you've done on this thread.

Good job!

Originally posted by Sundancer
reply to post by Spiritfilled

 

Surely no one can be that stupid -> as you said.

yes they can, and are

Originally posted by open_eyeballs


Many interpret this story to be about peace, or not an eye for an eye as the old testament goes into.

thats exactly what it is about, as it clearly states:

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth. But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well."
Matthew 5:38-40

again, everyone interprets what they want out of this bible so differently from one another to fit their own belief system that the message gets completely lost.

Yes, jesus was clearly stating an eye for an eye is bad.

reply to post by Odessy

Well, you can believe what you want, obviously, but killing is still evil imo, and evil will only beget more evil.

Im not sure where you got the idea I am encouraging killing???

though, in my opinion there are justifiable times...

What category does dropping those two atomic bombs in Japan fall into?

In the end it turned Japan into one of the most prosperous nations on earth. If it had gone to invasion million woul dhave died..on boths sides...and most of them would have been Japanese civilians...also japanese infrastructure would have been obliterated.

How about the 1,000,000+ civilians killed in iraq?

i would challenge you to give one ounce of evidence to support that statement...Its liberal propoganda...at its worst...

Never have I supported the war in iraq, but i wont allow lies to be spewed either...

Talk to a vietnam vet. I don't know one who isn't haunted by the things that happened there.

My father did 2 tours. What is your point? bad things happened... you bet.. for a political game too...I am highly saddened by Americas foreign policy. Its unconstitutional. Its immoral in a lot of ways, and most Americans dont support it...

Im not lookig to argue with you bro. You just need a little more education..

reply to post by open_eyeballs


yeah man, I'm not arguing with anyone here.
I like your style

I was simply responding to the statement that the Bible says though shalt not murder, in regards to killing and war.
The only time I would every kill, ever, and even that may be wrong, is if someone was hurting my family. So I can indeed understand times to kill.
But to say killing in war is different than murder, well, like I said, its all perspective.
Sure, Japan may be a powerful nation once again, but that doesn't address the atomic bomb killings. Those bombs were dropped after they gave up (its arguable only the 2nd one was dropped afterwards), so talk of what may have happened isn't possible. it didn't happen.
I think those bombs are one of humanities darkest hours.

While the old testament, the 10 commandments specifically, say do not murder, Jesus clearly didn't advocate fighting of any kind.
He stopped his disciples from fighting, killing, more than once.

I think standing up for what you believe in is a necessity, it brings about change, but even then, only doing it in a non-violent manor has ever yielded successful results ie: Ghandi.
When people fight, even in the revolutionary war, it only creates more enemies.
I honestly don't think the taking of life will get anyone anywhere, therefore, I think killing is wrong, and I think thats what jesus taught.