A Message To Christians... A Message of Peace...

Hello all, thanks for joining the discussion

I want to take the time to share a thought I've had recently.
If you've read my other threads and posts, you should know I'm not an advocate of fighting, and I don't want anyone's feelings to get hurt, so if you could, just step outside yourselves while reading this post, and look at it with an unclouded, neutral, mind.

This message can be directed towards anyone, but I direct it at christians because, from what I have observed, through close family, past friends, and current society, you guys seem to be missing the point.
Obviously, a lot of christians here on ATS are the exception, so a lot of what I say doesn't apply to you. Somehow many of you can do what other christians can't and acknowledge the ideals of other people with an open mind. Kudos to you

My thought starts with the knowledge that Christianity is the largest religion in the world today (if you include Catholicism and all other sects (which you should) into one big bundle... the concept is virtually the same).
It can be argued that all of the leaders in the US merit Christianity as the true religion, and often followers themselves, especially the last few Presidents in office.

My thought continues with an ideal:
"If there is one true religion, then the world would be a better place if everyone followed it."

The obvious conclusion I've come up with, is that the more Christians there are in the world... (flame time)... the worse off we've become...

Never have there been more christians than there are today, and never has the world been in such a mess (thats we know of).

I can go on and on about how the majority of christians act in our world today regarding war, materialism, and in many other aspects of our daily lives, but I think my thought above makes it quite obvious...

The world is in a terrible state, and the majority of the world are christians...
shouldn't it be the other way around?

I think Jesus was an awesome guy, I wish you guys had a book of only the things Jesus said, nothing else... the world would be a better place, as we would all be focusing on how to better ourselves, how to become better people... Jesus was very buddhist in his teachings... and sorry, I don't see buddhists causing half the mess christians have...
(FYI, I am neither Christian or Buddhist, but I believe in the teachings of both figure heads)

I can't believe you're trying to make use of the word peace in a Christians life...
That's huge - and ain't ever going to happen

War and backstabbing IS the Christian way.

reply to post by Sundancer


Wow so blatantly honest with your opinion. All I can say is flame on. . .

Can't wait to see how this unfolds.

reply to post by Sundancer


Thats how it seems... today at least...

A lot of my family and old friends are very Christian... and somehow they've all been lead to believe that killing in War is ok, and that God told us to follow mans law here on earth...

How is that possible? How could we ever go to war when Jesus said, "let he who is without sin throw the first stone," and, "If someone slaps you on your right cheek, turn your other cheek to him as well."

Somehow my mom seemed surprised the last time she tried to get me to go to church and I told her I don't need church to know what to and not to do...
I told her, "Mom, everyone has all the answers inside them already. Just ask yourself, if god is real, do you really think he would want us to be at war?"
"No," she replied...
"So we already know what right and wrong, what we need to do is apply it to our own lives," I responded.

Like I said, the majority of the world are Christians... how could the world be in such a mess if they followed the teaching of Jesus? It wouldn't be, they are too concerned in seeing the evil in others that they can't see it within themselves...

reply to post by Odessy


I am not religious and I really do not know what to believe in nowadays yet I feel you are right in the fact that we do have all of the answers inside of us in terms of what is right or what is wrong. That being said I believe most people know and feel that common sense within themselves, however with the web of entangled lies our society has seemingly become built on, I find people are often confused and don't even trust themselves to make the right or wrong choice; they just hope to make the better choice. So they look to a god or religious teaching for forgiveness when making a choice with no great outcome because they do know inside of themselves they are doing a wrongdoing. Yet nowadays it's hard to go through life without being entangled in some sort of mess that forces onr to make tough (being right or wrong; or just wrong and wrong) choices.


[edit on 20-8-2009 by born2BWild]

[edit on 20-8-2009 by born2BWild]

reply to post by Odessy


This thread can be proven wrong with a very simple fact:

The Washington Post-ABC News poll showed 51 percent of people say the war is not worth fighting. That sentiment was particularly high among members of the president's own party, with seven in 10 Democrats saying the war is not worth its costs.

www.foxnews.com...


Ergo, in a land mainly of Christian belief with strong ties to that religion everywhere (amongst one being that it's the only leading western nation where politicians have to say God bless you at the end of every speech), support of war falls fast. Where are the violent supporting overwhelming majority? And that's even a justified war! Iraq is even worst.


Obviously, the evidence contradicts your sentiments. Christians do not favor war in lands like the US.

What element you are missing is education. The simple fact is that education makes war support fall. Low education raises support for a war.



All and all, you're generalizing, even saying that the "minority" on ATS do not stand for the whole. The facts are saying else wise, that most Christians in America do not support war or aggression or disrespect to other people.

Just because 10% or so of a group are ultra-extremists does not mean that the whole is. I thought we got this fact proven when polls showed only 10% of Muslims support terrorism.

Please research more.

Thanks for lumping us Christians all in one cesspool. Sorry, I doesn't work that way. I am not catholic and they aren't the same. I am not saying anything is wrong with Catholics.

Blame the Christians for all the evil again thread. Very productive conversation.

Your so called examples of Christians, war hungry, power, money, material mongers, ah, and I love the, "All the Leaders in the US!", great example of stellar Christians. Oh my!

Barry is not a Christian by the way.

They are not true Christians. Heard of the Ten Commandments? Many call them self Christians, yet they hide behind the fa sad of Christianity, and you believe these are real Christians?

I am not close to a biblical scholar, and don't know/remember all the history, though, I Know What My Stand Is, which concurs with Christianity. You know, little things, like honesty, integrity, moral values and behavior. I guess you know about humiliation also.

Actually taking responsibility for your life and making the right moral choices no matter what is put in front of your plate instead of just Doing What Feels Good! Not blaming society or a matter of circumstance for the reasons of making the wrong choices in our life.

I am disgusted with the behavior and sickness and not just in the US.

As a Christian, we are in the fight for our lives and are being persecuted and killed due to our belief. Do I have to spell it out to you who is doing the killing solely on religious beliefs?! Check out Europe.

There is room for many religions

Have you heard a Christian say that, Christianity is the only religion and if you don't convert, you will be killed?


Pray to what ever god you want and leave me to pray for mine, and stop trying to take away Christmas and the other Christian holidays from me!

You are asking us to step out of the clouds when you are engulfed in your own clouds!

Signed, The Management


You get a star minus and unflag.

reply to post by PRS395


Christians do tell you to convert or be killed in the Sudan and local areas, but they are more of a synthesis of witch doctor beliefs with a few minor Christian pieces.


Also I am catholic, and the pope basically says that anyone can get into heaven for their good actions. But if the OP thinks the sins of the father should be given to his son, be my guess and blame me for a few Italians wanting to control the silk road and using the crusades to do it. Not that that's an archaic belief of course...

[edit on 20-8-2009 by Gorman91]

[edit on 20-8-2009 by Gorman91]

[edit on 20-8-2009 by Gorman91]

reply to post by PRS395


I hear Christians everyday saying "oh but he is not a real Christian" or "oh but she is not a real Christian" or "Oh but they are not real Christians".

By the time I get done hearing about how all these people aren't real Christians I have no Christians left.

They are ALL real Christians, they are ALL what REAL Christians are.

reply to post by Sundancer


No. because you fail to realize that no one individual is the same. You have fallen into the fallacy of grouping everyone based on the loudest speakers which is simply untrue.

In reality there is no group of anyone. There are a few minor shared beliefs, and then everything is radically different.

I posted links to the facts. If you are right, why was Bush's rating so low and why is the Iraq, and now Afghanistan wars unsupported by the majority of Americans? If what you say is true, why doesn't Europe's Christian population revolt and go bat sh*t insane over the growing atheist population. if what you say is true, where is the global crusade against everyone else?

It's not there because it's not true, and you are wrong.

Blame whoever you want to blame for the mess in this world we live in, but to blame a group of people because of their faith is just plain wrong. You are confusing the spirit with flesh. Christians are human. They have the same urges and feelings that anyone else might have. Each one handles it differently. The only difference is they believe in a God that forgives them of their shortcomings and mistakes. That makes you no better than they because you are doing the same thing to them that you are complaining that they do to you. Judging.
I have been coming here for years and I am sick of seeing the onslaught of all the hate and obvious troll threads that attack certain groups of people. There is nothing fruitful that comes from these threads and in the end it only pushes people further apart. If you dislike Christians, so be it, but enough of the bait threads to drag them in here and let the same bunch spew their same old tired dialect and insults toward what is for the largest part a good, peaceful group of people. On top of that I see no conspiracy in this topic at all.

Originally posted by Sundancer
reply to post by PRS395

 

I hear Christians everyday saying "oh but he is not a real Christian" or "oh but she is not a real Christian" or "Oh but they are not real Christians".

By the time I get done hearing about how all these people aren't real Christians I have no Christians left.

They are ALL real Christians, they are ALL what REAL Christians are.

Funny... Now get real! You think grandma and grandpa, soccer moms, kids at the local baptist church are all lumped in to your idea of "warmongering evil Christians"? Stick a sock in it. That is like me associating all atheist with Mao & Stalin, communism, etc. (who have the biggest body counts in recent history). Most of the problems in the world are caused by Greed & Lust for power and authority over others, doesn't matter what religion they "claim" to be associated with. If Christians ceased to exist tomorrow, the same problems would exist and then what "group" would you blame for all the ills of the world? Let me help you... Try the freeking "Individuals" who cause problems... don't judge a person by the color of their skin or their religion, judge a person by the content of their individual character. Practice what you preach.


[edit on 20-8-2009 by infolurker]

Originally posted by Odessy
Hello all, thanks for joining the discussion

I want to take the time to share a thought I've had recently.
If you've read my other threads and posts, you should know I'm not an advocate of fighting, and I don't want anyone's feelings to get hurt, so if you could, just step outside yourselves while reading this post, and look at it with an unclouded, neutral, mind.

This message can be directed towards anyone, but I direct it at christians because, from what I have observed, through close family, past friends, and current society, you guys seem to be missing the point.
Obviously, a lot of christians here on ATS are the exception, so a lot of what I say doesn't apply to you. Somehow many of you can do what other christians can't and acknowledge the ideals of other people with an open mind. Kudos to you

there are not 2 billion christians of earth. many of them hardly know a thing about christ and don't care about his teachings. don't belive bush and obama when they say they are christian (lol

My thought starts with the knowledge that Christianity is the largest religion in the world today (if you include Catholicism and all other sects (which you should) into one big bundle... the concept is virtually the same).
It can be argued that all of the leaders in the US merit Christianity as the true religion, and often followers themselves, especially the last few Presidents in office.

My thought continues with an ideal:
"If there is one true religion, then the world would be a better place if everyone followed it."

The obvious conclusion I've come up with, is that the more Christians there are in the world... (flame time)... the worse off we've become...

Never have there been more christians than there are today, and never has the world been in such a mess (thats we know of).

I can go on and on about how the majority of christians act in our world today regarding war, materialism, and in many other aspects of our daily lives, but I think my thought above makes it quite obvious...

The world is in a terrible state, and the majority of the world are christians...
shouldn't it be the other way around?

I think Jesus was an awesome guy, I wish you guys had a book of only the things Jesus said, nothing else... the world would be a better place, as we would all be focusing on how to better ourselves, how to become better people... Jesus was very buddhist in his teachings... and sorry, I don't see buddhists causing half the mess christians have...
(FYI, I am neither Christian or Buddhist, but I believe in the teachings of both figure heads)

i can see how your disillusioned with christianity..
but there arnt 2 billion christians on earth, most of them don't follow his teachings and are selfing. bush and obama are not christians, that is just a show.

if everyone truly followed the teachings of christ this world would be free of almost all problems.

reply to post by infolurker


I am not flaming Christians, I do not hate Christians.
I personally would never try to take anything Christian away from you. You should have Christmas and you should be able to pray where ever you want. The U.S. IS Christian, 80 percent last I checked. This is your very own country to do with as you please, as you have done. I think it's important that you continue to have your country and take responsibility for what it has become.

What I am saying, and I stick to it, is that the majority of Christians are not following the teachings of Jesus, but that of whatever their pastor or priest tells them.

You guys, Christians, are the power holders.
You guys could make this world significantly better by acting in example.
Yet the world is in a terrible place and this is taught to be a good thing in churches because its predicted the end times are near.

But alas, the majority of the christians I've met are too busy judging others, comparing themselves to each other as who is the better christian.
I just think the message of Jesus has been forgotten.

reply to post by Sundancer


Yet another fallacy in your arguing. The government has very low approval ratings. And where do you get blaming us as a christian nation to begin with? And where do you get blaming us all as well? And where do you get that the US Christians are somehow responsible for politicians lying to them?

There's so many fallacies in your thinking. I've listed a few. Try to take some time to think up your logic, as it makes no sense.

reply to post by Odessy


Why should all Christians be held accountable for improving the world, and why should they even bother? Jesus taught to work in your local area and work there. When you are not welcome, dust your sandals an leave for another place. That's pretty much the policy the US has followed for the last 60 years. Albeit they overstay their welcome. But once they are not welcomed, they leave. And if they don't, their people force them to.


But again, why should the majority be held to care for the rest? And to continue with that, the fact that the majority is so divided itself, why should they want to be grouped together on one religion. It is far more free to do what you want then be held accountable for what you think they should do.

Sounds bad, but isn't that life? I'm not responsible to help people. Just because some quote from the bible says that doesn't mean I have to. Religion requires listening to one's faith, and then knowing when not to listen to it. Sure I help when I can, but I am not responsible for some gunman killing people in Iraq.

reply to post by Gorman91


The minority I speak of on ATS is merely an observation.
I've seen more open minded christians on ATS than in the "real world."

2ndly, as far as your statistics are concerned, look up statistics right after 9/11.
Look at how many people were ready to fight back, get payback.
A MAJORITY supported the war efforts.

so much for turn the other cheek eh?

now its clear to see 9/11 was an inside job, that the war is a mess, of course people are realizing this now and saying, "oh, wait, I changed my mind, the war is bad." The majority played right into the hands of those that wanted the war... they KNEW what we would support a war.
If we said no, no war, lets just pump up our defense and show they can't change our daily lives, well, there wouldn't be over a million dead civilians in Iraq.

If everyone would worry about their own inner enlightenment, we wouldn't have killed over 120 million of our own kind in the 20th century alone...

So yes, your stats may be correct today, but it sure wasn't so when Bush was in office and we saw those towers fall.
Sure, the stats may be like that today, but they won't be tomorrow when when something else happens and everyone gets they nickers in a twist again.

usa is not a christian nation. no matter what polls say. anyone can "say" they are christian to get approval, but when you look at their actions it is far from it.

usa has been corrupted and perverted into sensuality and selfishness. that "80% of america is christian" is bs of the highest order.

Does anyone here understand that there is absolute evil in the world...Don't blame everything on whether there are more Jews,Christians or whatever numbers you come up with for whatever belief system seems to outweigh others.Never the evil that is in this world. We live in a fallen world and it won't be getting better but steadily worse