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A Message To Christians... A Message of Peace...

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posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 01:24 AM
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Originally posted by Odessy
reply to post by open_eyeballs
 


yeah man, I'm not arguing with anyone here.
I like your style


I was simply responding to the statement that the Bible says though shalt not murder, in regards to killing and war.
The only time I would every kill, ever, and even that may be wrong, is if someone was hurting my family. So I can indeed understand times to kill.
But to say killing in war is different than murder, well, like I said, its all perspective.
Sure, Japan may be a powerful nation once again, but that doesn't address the atomic bomb killings. Those bombs were dropped after they gave up (its arguable only the 2nd one was dropped afterwards), so talk of what may have happened isn't possible. it didn't happen.
I think those bombs are one of humanities darkest hours.

While the old testament, the 10 commandments specifically, say do not murder, Jesus clearly didn't advocate fighting of any kind.
He stopped his disciples from fighting, killing, more than once.

I think standing up for what you believe in is a necessity, it brings about change, but even then, only doing it in a non-violent manor has ever yielded successful results ie: Ghandi.
When people fight, even in the revolutionary war, it only creates more enemies.
I honestly don't think the taking of life will get anyone anywhere, therefore, I think killing is wrong, and I think thats what jesus taught.



"thou shalt not murder" did not apply to war. God repeatedly commanded the genocide of several wicked and cruel nations and their entire population. John the baptist (jesus prophet) when asked by roman soldiers what they needed to do to repent said "don't force people to give you money," and "don't keep asking for more wages". he didn't tell them to leave the roman army at all. War is the way that we conquer lower cultures or defend our own. simple as that. christians can definitely go on a warpath to conquer an evil nation.




posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 02:01 AM
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reply to post by Spiritfilled
 


Perhaps God can declare war, if you believe in that type of god, but in todays world, it is simply man declaring one society "evil."

I suppose also, this is if you believe everything the bible says as well, which, clearly, I don't.
If war is used to conquer "lower" or "evil" societies, now as man deems fit, then again, why are we in such a mess? obviously we're not doing what "God" wants.
Perhaps God is punishing us... if you believe God is that type of figure, which, I don't..


christians can definitely go on a warpath to conquer an evil nation.


Then it is Christians that are judging, and not God.

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Odessy]



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 02:12 AM
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there is no nation on earth ruled by true christians. some (like america) say they are christians to manipulate the cattle into following them. we are in a mess because the world in under the control of satan until christ defeats him at the apocalypse.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 03:01 AM
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reply to post by Spiritfilled
 


lol I can't tell if your joking or not...

I agree with your first part whole heartedly.

But waiting for Jesus is not the answer. People have been saying its the end times for hundreds of years...
Be proactive by spreading love. Trust me, it catches on. Get outside and smile at the people you pass, chances are they will smile back.
Open the door for people. Don't cut people off in your car.
Give a compliment. Strike up a convo.
people have scared themselves into being afraid to talk to other people, that everyone is the criminal they see on TV...
You can change that, we all can.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 03:30 AM
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Originally posted by Odessy
reply to post by Spiritfilled
 


lol I can't tell if your joking or not...

I agree with your first part whole heartedly.

But waiting for Jesus is not the answer. People have been saying its the end times for hundreds of years...
Be proactive by spreading love. Trust me, it catches on. Get outside and smile at the people you pass, chances are they will smile back.
Open the door for people. Don't cut people off in your car.
Give a compliment. Strike up a convo.
people have scared themselves into being afraid to talk to other people, that everyone is the criminal they see on TV...
You can change that, we all can.


Nope, they're not joking. That's what Christianity actually says.

For example, refer to the part where Satan tempts Jesus. Satan tells Jesus that if Jesus will bow to him, that Satan will give Jesus all the kingdoms of the world.

How would that be possible unless Satan had power over all the kingdoms of the world and the leaders of those kingdoms? Of course it could not be possible if what the Bible says is true. The Bible says Satan is the ruler of the entire planet and all it's kingdoms (governments), but only until the return of Christ.

So, I'm not saying Christianity is real, but watch out before you blame Christianity for something some world leader like Hitler or something does, because most of the world leaders are not true Christians. In other words, they don't really believe what the Bible says because the Bible says Satan is in control, but the world leaders say they're in control, but they also believe in the Bible. Well both can't be true. Either the Bible is right and Satan is in control, or the Bible is wrong and our world leaders are in control. But the rulers of the world that say they're Christian would like you to believe that both are true at the same time, that the Bible is true and they are in control and not Satan, but they cannot both be because the Bible says otherwise.

Also, as far I know most people in the world are not Christians. Most people belong to some other religion. I wouldn't blame all the world's problems on Christianity. It seems there are much larger religions that have far more believers that one should take issue with first.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 03:58 AM
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reply to post by tinfoilman
 


LOL! wow, that middle paragraph you wrote is a mind twister...

Check out the 2nd page of this thread, i posted a chart.

I'm not trying to blame anyone for today's problem, we are all part of the problem and can only fix it by fixing ourselves.

but at the same time, I'm trying to point out that its obvious Christianity is not doing what its supposed to do because if the majority of the world are christians (or just the US for that matter) which they are, then if what they did was right our world wouldn't be in half the mess we're in.

Its like using the logic, "Oh well if everyone believed what I believe then the world would be a perfect place..."
But wait, the majority of the US DO believe one thing, yet we're in a worse state now than we ever have been.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 04:04 AM
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reply to post by Odessy
 


Yes I saw your chart, and simply take issue with the fact that Christianity and Catholicism are considered the same religion. They may have the same God, but the religions are very different and most I know consider the two separated. Either Christian or Catholic.

You can't say they're the same religion just because they have the same God. If that were the case then Islam would have to be included into the Christianity section on your chart, but it is not. However, they are the same God, but considered different religions on your chart. Therefore, just because Catholics and Christians share the same God, does not mean they share the same religion.

Also, what is your complaint about America? You really think America is worse off today then any time in it's past? When do you think America was a better country?

Was a America a better country before we had modern health care? Before we had the Internet? Before we have civil rights? Back in the depression? Back in the revolutionary war? Back when we had slaves?

Is that when you think America was in it's prime? Let me ask? When do you think America was in it's prime? You really think America is worse now than it HAS EVER BEEN? Really?

[edit on 21-8-2009 by tinfoilman]

[edit on 21-8-2009 by tinfoilman]



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 04:11 AM
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reply to post by Odessy
 


Also, you put out the fallacy that I think if everyone believed in what I believed the world would be perfect. This is words in my mouth and not what I believe. My religion deals with what happens after one leaves this world.

If everyone believed in what I believed in it, it might be a little better, but my religion still preaches that for now, until later, Satan has some sway over the world. So, it still wouldn't be perfect. In fact, the inability for perfection on this flesh based planet is in fact the main aspect of my religion.

So, don't put words in my mouth.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 04:57 AM
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reply to post by tinfoilman
 


I don't think they are the same for having the same god... I think they are same because they read practically the same bible, believe jesus is our saviour and only through him can you get to heaven...

for all practicalities, they are the same...



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 05:10 AM
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Originally posted by Odessy
reply to post by tinfoilman
 


I don't think they are the same for having the same god... I think they are same because they read practically the same bible, believe jesus is our saviour and only through him can you get to heaven...

for all practicalities, they are the same...


And yet just because you say they are the same, doesn't make it so. According to your logic they are the same because they have certain aspects that are the same. You're illogically putting more value on those similarities and ignoring the differences that don't fit your world view.

Your logic is they have similarities so they are the same. Well, then it would be fair that I use the same logic and say that well, they have differences so therefore they are different. Such as how Catholicism focuses more on Mary than Christianity does. Both of our arguments would be equally as valid.

But more importantly, I'm simply saying I just outright reject your view that they are the same.

You're picking and choosing similarities. Like I said, Islam has the same God as well, but you consider it a different religion. So, which similarities count and which don't? Let me guess, the ones that prove you're right are the only similarities that count right?

Also, again, why is America in the worse shape it has ever been in? You never answered?



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 05:30 AM
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reply to post by tinfoilman
 


woah there tiger. Calm down a bit.

My family on my mothers side is Christian, their best friends are Catholics, my family on my fathers side are Jewish... I will gladly group the Catholics with the Protestants than with the Jews...
Why?
In the END, they both say you need to believe in Jesus to get to heaven...
COMPLETELY NOT Jewish or Muslim, even though they believe in the same God.

As different as they are, the CORE belief is the same. Its what separates them from the rest of religion... the belief in Jesus as the Messiah...

Thats why you will find both Protestants and Catholics labeled in one group: Christians, in many, if not most, surveys or studies.

The main point of my thread can be directed at them BOTH because I think if BOTH groups followed the teaches of Jesus alone, and not whats in the rest of their bibles, the world would be a better place...

I'm not going to change my views regarding Catholics as Christians... even when I was Christian I thought the same thing... so I'm not manipulating anything...

If you want, we can get into all the sects of Protestants too and see how far we can separate them.

You are making irrational claims in your frustration... Clearly I have very logical reasoning in my grouping them together.

 


EDIT TO ADD:


Also, again, why is America in the worse shape it has ever been in? You never answered?


I think America is in the worst shape it has ever been for many reasons...
I'm surprised I even have to answer this.
I guess the most obvious is that we are on the verge of a complete economic collapse, our dollar wont hold out for much longer.
We have the healthcare of a 3rd world nation (look up stats).
We are in the most debt we have ever been in, and with our central banking system, thats only going to rise.
Corporations own congress.
We are one of the most hated countries in the world with the worst foreign relations we may have ever had.
Pointless War.
False Flag attacks...
etc...



[edit on 21-8-2009 by Odessy]



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 05:59 AM
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reply to post by Odessy
 


Yes, but what I'm telling you is I don't care. What I'm telling you is that your argument is illogical because you're the one that gets to decide which differences count and which don't. That Islam is different, but the other two are not even though they all have differences. What I'm telling you is that ALL differences count. You don't get to pick and choose just so you win the argument.

As long as you're deciding which differences count and which don't I don't stand a chance now do I? What I am telling you is the two religions DO HAVE differences and therefore are different religions. My argument is based on math. Two things that have differences mathmatically CANNOT be equal to the same thing. This is why they have different names.


As for America, what you are saying is that AFTER the collapse America will be the worst it ever has been? Oh, you're psychic now too?

Yes it is possible that America WILL BE IN THE FUTURE the worst it ever has been. But I'm asking about right now? Do you think right now, today, America is worse than it was in the depression?



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 06:06 AM
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reply to post by tinfoilman
 


lol you don't care that I make logical points?

Ok, so how about i re-title the thread:

A Message to All People that Believe in Jesus as Lord and Saviour...

there you go... now protestants and catholics are in the same group and I just have to replace that with the word 'Christian' in my OP.
and THATS why its COMPLETELY logical to categorize them together, and no other religion...

 

EDIT TO ADD:


Yes it is possible that America WILL BE IN THE FUTURE the worst it ever has been. But I'm asking about right now? Do you think right now, today, America is worse than it was in the depression?


I am talking about today, and given the time of the earth, I would categorize the depression in the same era as today.
I would say that today the govt it more sinister than it was in the depression.
If you research the depression, thats really when the central bank took ahold (1913) and that is what has lead us to the situation we are in now.
During the depression we weren't at war... today we are...
Which out numbers which?
Which is more sinister?
I believe that today is... now they're not just stealing from americans, but killing them too... and destroying an entire country in a War NATO voted against and the rest of the world apposes.

you don't have to predict the future to see, whats that? oh yeah, logical reasoning yet again...

I have no idea why you are being SO aggressive, but you sound like a kid trying to pull apart something that makes obvious sense...
OBVIOUSLY I'm not the only one that thinks Catholics and Christians are alike as many surveys and sensus' categorize them together.
I have logical reasoning for grouping them together, and not other religions...
So please, keep saying the same thing over and over again, but your not making nearly as much sense as you think you are.


[edit on 21-8-2009 by Odessy]



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 06:32 AM
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reply to post by Odessy
 


So you're saying that we're worse off today because of the war? What about WWI and WWII and the Vietnam war? What about those wars?

As for the depression? Well I personally think we're better off today than we were during the depression. At least today we are. I'm about to prove it by going to the fridge and getting me a sandwich. I'll brb.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 07:37 AM
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reply to post by Odessy
 


However, the very fact that the stats changed means that people sought education and information, spreading it. They did not listen to their Christian leaders, and learned that they weren't even christian at all, bot rather a bunch of idiots who use religion of their advantage. Which, btw, if Christianity never existed, they'd just use something else.

So how are you right? The majority here abandoned the war once they knew more about it. You can't blame them for believing their government was defending them after a massive destruction event. It was a radical change from a trustworthy government to an oppressive one. you couldn't have seen it coming, and therefore that makes you wrong.


Had the war remained popular till today even, you'd be right. But it didn't, and so you're wrong.



Why is the world such a #y place? Because humans are #y people.

Also, besides a few leaders, who says Christianity is the superior religion. The leader of Catholicism, the pope, personally said all faiths lead to heaven, but as far as he knows Catholicism is the most direct one. That's not saying your superior, it's like saying all the cars in the lot have 25,000 miles on them, but theirs has 5,000 miles, making it more direct and less likely to break down. That's not superior, that's just salesmanship. Superior would be saying something like Catholicism is the only way to heaven and even those on other christian faiths are going to hell. That's wrong though.

So again you're wrong. Only a couple old rich elite Anglos say what you say, and they only make up some 10% or so of the population, so who ares about them?

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Gorman91]

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Gorman91]



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 07:39 AM
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reply to post by Sundancer
 


How can you rest your case? You just changed your talking point. One christian decides to speak his mind and all of the sudden you're right? How? You grouped us all together, I proved you wrong. So how are you right?



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 10:36 AM
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Absolutely right! Good on you. Religion does either need to step up to the plate or move out of the way. Because thanks to Christianity, Islam and Judaism (the 3 pillars) we have basically fudged up the whole world.
Is it better to be right or better to be at peace. That’s the message I want people to adopt.
Christianity has been the Bain of my life for a long time (I’m an ex Christian). I was bought up in a Catholic School and followed that through until I was about 21 , really looking for something out there. I mean really studying it as well. When I found out the bible had been written over centuries and that people have “Amended” it to suit there own purpose. So what people are reading and following today is essentially a complete load of crap. Also, Christians seem to have take that message and warped it so badly that there is nothing “good” left in that community.
There a TV program a few months back about America’s most hated family. They essentially went around the country shouting and being angry at people for being sinners i.e. Gay, or Abortionists . They went very OTT with it all. However, their actions are indicative of the Christian Community.
Does the bible say “Judge not lest ye be judged”? Christians and Muslims need to get on with spreading messages about love and union. Not judging others. If you don’t agree with what someone is doing. Let your god sort that out. All you have to do is embrace the world with love. That’s the message about judgement.
There too much of this “Oh your going to hell because you’re a sinner” Guess what peeps. God is mean to be the ultimate source of love. The ultimate forgiving entity. Ergo, everyone’s going to heaven. What Father/Mother would condemn there children or family to an eternity of hell. No one. Exactly. So imagine that father/mother being infinitely more loving than humanity, would that love condemn people to hell…no.
Also, don’t know if anyone has read the Bible. But lets face it. The old testament (Tora) is the base of all three religions. It reads like a flipin’ disaster film. With god blowing the # out of anyone who does not follow his way…or her way. I mean, that in its own turned me away completely. Its horrible. There is no way I would walk around Jerusalem with some trumpets 7 times and then when the walls fall…..go and slaughter everyone!?!?! What god would suggest that as a way to solve your problems. Religion and Common sense do not go together.
And, on that point, God is a He? If god does not need to have sex….being a ethereal being and all that….then how can “It” be a he or she. God is god. Whats all this Allah / God he is great bollox.
I could go on but is it not about time that people simply grew up and stopped following this stuff. There probably is a god. A very loving and very good god. I just don’t think Christians , Muslims and Jews have really understood what love is all about.

After all does love equal any of the following:-

Beating and raping your wife if she does not cook you a meal….hmm think not. Sound pretty sick to me.

Judging and hating people just because they are Gay or have a different view….with such a hate that it spills over into mass murder……hmm I think not.

Thinking black people are evil …..Hmm again I think not.

Not allowing women to work or be educated, but men can do what they like (Not just islam by the way, you Christians have been doing that for centuries)

Not eating certain foods on certain days…whats that got to do with anything..!?!?
Again this list of fanatical , fantastical , absurd , stupid, mindless and loveless laws could go on. Just remember that the Tora, Bible and Quran all state that all things happen with gods will god controls all things . So if you see something you don’t like….guess what …god created it. Must cause some people some real pain to find out that god designed to concept of everything in the world. So by judging it,you are judging God….which is a sin. Think!



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by kilas
 


You do realize that that division is the creation of a couple of power hungry individuals? And that if religion never existed they'd just use culture, skin color, or language?

Religion is just a tool used. You don't blame the gun, you blame the shooter. A gun that saves 50 people in one hand and kills one innocent person in another's is neither guilty nor innocent. The persons involved or either guilty or innocent. And they do not share the guilt or innocence. The one who used it to save 50 people is a hero. The one who shot an innocent is a criminal.

Religion is the same.



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 11:02 AM
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reply to post by kilas
 


the world is not worse now than it ever has been. where did you get that idea? the truth is, before christianity came, people were sacrificing their children to idols and other such horrendous practices. look at africa! that is a sad continent without the light of christ. everyone stealing from each other and murdering each other.
you think rape and child abuse didn't happen even more back before christ? the world has indeed been better last century, but as christianity falls, it continues to get worse.
Being a christians is NOT about simply believing in christ (as the bibles keep errenously translating. you can believe in christ all you want and still go front row into judgement if you don't follow God's teaching.

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Spiritfilled]



posted on Aug, 21 2009 @ 12:26 PM
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reply to post by tinfoilman
 


Catholocism is Christianity. Theres no two ways about it. They believe Jesus Christ died on the Cross. thats all it takes to be qualified as Christian. In fact they were the first Christians. All other sects of Christianity basically derive off of the Catholics dogma...

Although I wouldnt call any form of Christianity today "Christian"...I would call it "Paul"..ianity....


As most of the teachings were formed by Paul (a roman) to preach to all the gentiles living within the Roman Empire...hence Constantine making Christianity the new religion of the state and therefore immediately making Christianity the most powerful religion in the world...

In many ways one could cosider the Catholic Empire the newer version of teh Roman empire...in my opinion...



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