The Lockerbie Bomber is being freed tmorro - USA butt out !

reply to post by kindred


Exactly. When I heard this on the evening news the first thought was
one of "..for what diplomatic purpose?"

reply to post by Ulala
Im from the UK too. The US is right here, this geezer is guilty and deserves the guilotine, not a nice plane ride home. It would be so ironic if some group had blown up the plane as he flew home

reply to post by kindred


I wish I could give your statement more than just one star.

Kindred, this is the most clever statement I've read thus far on this thread! It's a relief that finally someone agrees that this is set up by the Rothschild puppets and that the UK government should receive as little support as the US government. As you mentioned, Tony Blair is/was also involved.

Who in the British government has attended the Bilderberg meetings that often discuss oil? This year it was

Peter Mandelson

Kenneth Clarke

Richard Dearlove (former head of the British secret intelligence service)

John Kerr (aka Baron Kerr of Kinlochard) (Deputy Chairman of Royal Dutch Shell and an independent member of the House of Lords)


Other interesting attendees include

Peter Sutherland, Ireland (Chairman, BP and Chairman of Goldman Sachs International)

Jeroen van der Veer, Netherlands (CEO of Royal Dutch Shell)


It should also be mentioned that further people attended the meeting, but are not mentioned on the list, such as David Cameron.

George Osborne was also there (not sure if this year or last year or both). Tony Blair is a member...

How about David Cameron? Last night (Taiwan time), I read in the news that David Cameron condemns the release! I couldn't stop laughing, as he's also part of the setup...wasn't he at the Bilderberg meeting this year?

Originally posted by MightyAl
reply to post by phoenix103

 

If he is suffering from cancer, then that doesn't change the fact that he was released in order to improve the relationship between oil-rich Libya and the UK.

I also don't care if he's guilty, as that has nothing to do with the matter that he was freed for the purpose stated above.

If you don't know the Rothschilds and you don't know Mandelson's position, then you will just think he was released because it was time for him to be released. I wish the world were that simple and innocent...

Forget oil, forget the Rothschilds and Mandelson (btw, we HATE Mandelson). He was released as Scottish law mandates that a person in prison dying of a terminal illness should be released on compassionate grounds.

The Judicial system is not now, never has been and must never been a political football. It may well have been abused at times but this was absolutely the right decision.

There are a huge number of people in the UK who are highly suspicious of this conviction and believe the second appeal would have been very successful. Neither you nor I sat through the trial so we cannot be sure one way or another of his guilt or innocence. There are significant questions which should have been answered at the original trial, as they weren't this leads to a feeling that at best this is an unsafe conviction.

On that basis, leaving a potentially innocent man to die in jail against the law of the land is just wrong.

Normally the British people will support their judicial system to the hilt, on this occasion where one would expect mass outrage, it is far more balanced than anticipated. Seems people are thinking far more independently these days and that is a great thing.

reply to post by Ulala


Well said, starred.

Isn't it ironic where Christianity is the prevailing religion in the US that so little of the values of Christ are displayed by the populace?

As you and I know, religion in the UK is very low key yet we seem far more tolerant and compassionate than some of those from the states posting on this and other subjects.

Frankly, it doesn't make much sense to me.

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by john124
You're no better than the terrorist if you would enjoy seeing him executed. If he escaped or say resisted arrest then shoot him like he's the taliban, but if in captivity a civilised society should ensure he has the minimum to survive within reason during his prison sentence.

Yeah, right.

Here's a guy that was in prison for killing how many people? How many innocent travellers were killed in a fiery death, yet this guy is just sitting in prison. I think the death sentence should have been brought down on this guy as soon as his trial was over.

Think what you like, we don't murder people on behalf of the state in this country.

Originally posted by ufoorbhunter
reply to post by Ulala

 

Im from the UK too. The US is right here, this geezer is guilty and deserves the guilotine, not a nice plane ride home. It would be so ironic if some group had blown up the plane as he flew home

"geezer". I guess most Brits reading this will have an idea which demographic you fit into.

"guilotine" - your knowledge of history is somewhat lacking, this is not France. Given the above I think you aren't someone who speaks for the nation.

Originally posted by infinite
Another move by the SNP administration to annoy the British Government and the United States. Politically motivated. Will cost them votes and probably power in Scotland. Stupid, stupid people.

Compassionate grounds never takes into account the lack of compassion shown towards the individuals brutal murdered by this terrorist atrocity.

Another fine reason why Scotland shouldn't be allowed to govern themselves.

A ridiculous and insulting statement you finished with there, Infinte. This is not a thread about Scotland's political shortcomings, but about the Lockerbie bomber. There is much more going on behind the scenes here than we can know at the moment, and I have a feeling that this story isn't nearly over yet. I would bet that most people in Scotland are well aware of how the SNP operate, and what their weaknesses are, and it's our government, not yours, thankfully. The situation we have at present is not our ideal solution, but a stepping stone, hopefully, to something better. To infer that the Scots should not be "allowed" to govern themselves is immature, insulting, and insensitive. Please retract it.

Back on topic, of course the US and others have a right to comment on what happened yesterday, but writing a letter to Kenny McAskill urging him to leave the convicted man in jail *IS* interfering with our justice system, which has the reputation for being one of the finest in the world. It's not perfect, but then, is that possible to achieve at all? Show me any country with a perfect justice system, and we will happily follow their model.

Maybe someone somewhere has evidence that a howling mistake was made, or that the real truth about the situation is better buried than shown to the world in an appeals process....maybe we will never know. He probably has just a few weeks left to live anyway, and would it really change anything at all to keep him in jail? Really? I have complete compassion for people who lost family, but what keeps going through my head is the idea that PERHAPS the wrong man was convicted. Bad enough in itself, but it follows that the real culprits are still out there and will never be brought to justice. Maybe the US senators letter is just another distraction from people who know more than we do....

Originally posted by Ulala


Al-Megrahi is being released on compassionate grounds because he's terminally ill with cancer. His release will come despite considerable pressure being applied by the White House, Hillary Clinton and seven US Senators, all of whom wish to see Al-Megrahi die in prison.

Clinton said :

I just think it is absolutely wrong to release someone who has been imprisoned based on the evidence about his involvement in such a horrendous crime."

Yet its absolutely ok for the american judicial system to give lethal injection to a nobel laureate Tookey Williams despite any real case being made against him for his so called crimes!

nothing but hypocracy from america once again !


EDIT:

Yes justice has been served excellently here !

the man has served a life imprisonment becuse he was found guilty , his name hasnt been cleared , he has spent his life in jail , and as such has paid for his crimes based on the law of scotland!

He is dying of cancer and as such should be released by scottish law , this is the two sides of justice the balance of the scales!
He has been punished by law , punished by cancer , and will no doubt be punished by whatever god he believes in if he is truly guilty.

However as scotland arent tyrants or evil we released him on compassionate grounds, because we are a compassionate country.

If you ask me all is fair and well , so is scotland going to be invaded now because our political views dont match that of the US , is Alex salmond going to be put on some assassination list by the CIA, our oil fields in the north sea are rich for the taking !



[edit on 21-8-2009 by sapien82]

I'm Scottish and proud of it.

100% behind Kenny McKaskill's decision to release Megrahi.

Everyone knows the guy was set up because the Americans had Libya in its sights at the time.

Despite what your FBI rep says there was no jury involved in the decision. If he wants to put his big foot in it and critiscise Scottish legal system he ought to get his facts straight first.

I'm sick to death of America telling other folk what to do... they do need to butt out.

Garry MacKinnon a Scot currently appealing extradition to USA on trumped up charges. Brian Howes a Scot and neighbour of mine fighting extradition to USA on trumped up charges. Kenny Richie recently released from USA jail having been on death row for 20 years on trumped up charges.

I think US legal system needs to take a look at itself before critising others.

Regarding punishing murders did anyone from USS Vincennes get charged with anything after shooting dowm Iranian airliner killing hundreds of innocent civillians.

Nope... they got medals.... shudda been banged up for murder imo.

Butt out..



[edit on 22-8-2009 by bigyin]

[edit on 22-8-2009 by bigyin]

[edit on 22-8-2009 by bigyin]

Originally posted by bigyin
I think US legal system needs to take a look at itself before critising others.

Your post is quite funny. You whine and moan about the US, saying "butt out", yet you then go about telling the US that they need to look at their own legel system, etc. Pot; meet kettle (once again).

Originally posted by bigyin
Regarding punishing murders did anyone from USS Vincennes get charged with anything after shooting dowm Iranian airliner killing hundreds of innocent civillians.

Nope... they got medals.... shudda been banged up for murder imo.

Actually, the only decorations they received were CARs for being in a designated combat zone (that everyone receives) and the CO and the Air Warfare coordinator got end of tour awards when they left the ship. Big deal.

But, hey, I'm sure that the US justice system will take your opinion of "banging them up for murder" under consideration.

The best is yet to come! There's talk on the radio news stations that certain Americans are talking about boycotting Scottish goods. . . What on earth will they boycot? Tartan caps, Highland Spring Water, Cuddly Loch Ness Monsters and Haggis. . !

OOOOh america is going to boycott scotland , they may want to get rid of their clans that they have in america then , like the thousands of americans who are registered clansmen that came over for the homecoming this year!
They may also want to stop singing Auld lang syne at new year too! Oh and the american national anthem was written by a scotsman wasnt it ?, we'll be having that back too.

america could boycott scotland all it wants , us scots wouldnt care one bit, because we havent done anything wrong.
In this situation there was nothing wrong in the eyes of the law with releasing megrahi, but in other cases the scottish legal system is far from perfect , knife crimes only carry a minimum of three years, where as drugs sentences are alot longer, and oddly enough peadophiles are getting less than drug sentences!
So its far from perfect, and yes the american system has gaping holes in it too.
The legal records in america are probably full of cases of mistrials and banging up innocent people, framings, killing jury's , killing witnessess, all that sort of stuff, and thats before we even get to the government fixing trials.

they are just as bad as each other.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


Nessie's been boycotting Scotland herself for years ... why shouldn't the Americans be any different ?

If this consumer boycott takes off it may have the added bonus of putting a final nail in the coffin of Donald Trump's new golf course near Aberdeen, construction of which is due to commence in November. It's to be built against the wishes of the locals & environmentalists, on a site of special scientific interest, home to rare flora and 4,000 year old sand dunes. Hope that gets cancelled.

And at least we'll be spared the gruesome sight of American tourists, bedecked from head to toe in tartan and ginger coloured wigs. We'll lose their dollars, obviously, but given that their dollars are either loaned to them by the rest of the world or created out of thin air it's hardly a great loss to anyone.

Yeah, bring on this consumer boycott.

Conveniently forget the fact it was Tony Blair who initiated discussions about letting al-Megrahi go free, he started negotiations without even consulting the Scottish authorities. Forget all the Scots soldiers who have died in Iraq & Afghanistan, of course. Forget the huge numbers of people who lined up to sign the condolence books at the US Consulate in Edinburgh after September 11th. And forget those of us who raised money for the families of the emergency responders of New York City ... I sure won't be doing that the next time.

None of that counts now.

We've passed from ally to pariah state without any intervening period whatever ... and that I'm quite happy with

The Americans have always found the Scots a difficult race to understand. It's because they get their understanding of history from Hollywood so when Mel Gibson Screams, "Freedom!", in Braveheart Americans had to reach for their dictionaries to see what the word meant!

Being serious for a moment, remember how the American media fuelled the hatred of the French when they refused to take part in the Iraq War? Ordinary Americans are great people but they do tend to be easily manipulated by their news media. . .

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
The best is yet to come! There's talk on the radio news stations that certain Americans are talking about boycotting Scottish goods. . . What on earth will they boycot? Tartan caps, Highland Spring Water, Cuddly Loch Ness Monsters and Haggis. . !

Lol thats funny, but i have it covered.

Despite being an Englishman through and through, i eat haggis a couple of times a week, so i'll keep them in business should the US get funny over this.

CX.

Originally posted by caitlinfae
To infer that the Scots should not be "allowed" to govern themselves is immature, insulting, and insensitive. Please retract it.

The SNP will do anything to get recongination on the international stage, even visiting a war criminal in Belgrade while NATO carried out military action to stop ethnic cleansing. However, Karma will deliver a vote of no confidence on their adminstration and SNP will loose power.

I for one do not fear a boycott on Scotland, I doubt the great paladin - the American education system - taught Americans where Scotland is. Probably mistake Scotland for the Isle of Mann.

An insult though too, many Scots during the European enlightenment period supported American independence and republicanism.

Originally posted by CX

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
The best is yet to come! There's talk on the radio news stations that certain Americans are talking about boycotting Scottish goods. . . What on earth will they boycot? Tartan caps, Highland Spring Water, Cuddly Loch Ness Monsters and Haggis. . !

Lol thats funny, but i have it covered.

Despite being an Englishman through and through, i eat haggis a couple of times a week, so i'll keep them in business should the US get funny over this.

CX.

This is escalating out of control. This was a Scottish decision taken by a Scottish MP so it was understandable that Scotland would bare the brunt of any fallout from America. However, now in true American style they've decided that it's Britains fault as well and have opened a website,

www.boycottscotland.com

where they are asking Americans to cancel holidays in the UK and refuse to buy their goods. How can a country full to the brim with talented, polite and resourceful people like America manipulate their citizens so easily?
All we should do in tis country is reply in kind and boycott the States...

Originally posted by Ulala
reply to post by Mintwithahole.

 

If this consumer boycott takes off it may have the added bonus of putting a final nail in the coffin of Donald Trump's new golf course near Aberdeen, construction of which is due to commence in November. It's to be built against the wishes of the locals & environmentalists, on a site of special scientific interest, home to rare flora and 4,000 year old sand dunes. Hope that gets cancelled.

Conveniently forget the fact it was Tony Blair who initiated discussions about letting al-Megrahi go free, he started negotiations without even consulting the Scottish authorities. Forget all the Scots soldiers who have died in Iraq & Afghanistan, of course. Forget the huge numbers of people who lined up to sign the condolence books at the US Consulate in Edinburgh after September 11th. And forget those of us who raised money for the families of the emergency responders of New York City ... I sure won't be doing that the next time.

None of that counts now.

We've passed from ally to pariah state without any intervening period whatever ... and that I'm quite happy with

That's an excellent point about Trumpton....I pray to every god imaginable that it stops. It's all about money and political bum kissing..(thanks to Alex Salmond)..and definitely is not wanted by people here. Aparently we have no say in what happens on our own soil, in our own precious sites. Forgive me for bitterness, but you have to be at Balmedie to understand how enchanted it is, and how much development will ruin it. I practically grew up there.

There is way too much interference here from many sources like Tony Blair and the US government, over a matter which should be handled by Scotland alone. Did the US *ever* listen to the international condemnation over Guantanamo? Aren't they still reciting the rubbish that passes for their version of the truth over 9/11 regardless of evidence that would seem to correct it?

No government is perfect. Alex Salmond and the SNP are not highly regarded here despite being in power. This is not, however, a party political debate, but a single issue, which Scotland has dealt with according to her laws. At least what the Justice Minister did in releasing him was legal, however you might feel about the morality of it.

I just posted this in a different thread, I didn't realize this one was still active.
Here it is from prisonplanet.com

Prisonplanet