Where is your God?!

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Republican08

 

life is a test, we don't know why we are being tested so yes it is purposeless on our behalf but not on behalf of the creator.

So a creator, who would appear to be omniscient omnipotent, needs to learn?

I don't comprehend, and infinite being, trying to learn something.

reply to post by Republican08


How specific do you want me to be? If you read my quotes you would have read regarding my beliefs.
note: my beliefs are not absolute.

if you read it you would have seen regarding my beliefs, i stated that the creator of this hologram can either be future humans or god. in my terminology god is an unknown force, being or what so ever, as long as being an unknown creator. hence an unknown creator = god

I generally don't like to get into this sort of conversation because moost people are going to only believe what they want to believe. However you seem to be respectful of people post whether you agree or not.

I am 29 years old and was baptized 2 1/2 years ago. I was raised in an athiest home and heard the arguement you have put out man many times. I believed that myself. How could there be an all loving God when so many people are hurt in so many different ways. Why is there cruelty with an all loving god. I went through most of high school with this mind set and then I started to feel this pull to try and find my way to God. I started looking into various religions and went to a variety of churches.

When my son was born 2 months premature Everyone prayed (Even my father, ironically) and within 3 days my son was home with me. He was breathing on his own the first day he was born, the second day he was bottle feeding, by the 3rd day he had gained 1 1/2 pounds and was maintaining his body temperature. He came home with me the fourth day and has never had any side effects from being premature or sick (with the exception of one high fever has never been ill and my son is 2 1/2). The hospital told me before I had emergency c-section that my son would be in the hospital for 8 weeks... maybe longer.

Of course I was scared to death that all that had happened very unexpectedly, but somehow I knew it was all going to be okay. I knew that god was there with us. After developing pictures from the hospital there is a glowing light above my sons head in several different positions with different people (and there was no glass so it wasn't a reflection or anything like that). I believe that God truly is with each and everyone of us if we choose to open our selves to it.

To address why bad things and bad people exist... I don't know for sure. Personally I think we all do have free will to do good or bad. I am the victim of molestation and of abandonment. My mother dropped me off at my grandmas house saying she would be back the next day... never to return when I was 4 years old. I was lucky to be adopted by people who then loved me and took good care of me from that point on.

I love my son so much, more than anything in this world. And for all the pain I've been through in my life, all the self doubt at times... now that I have my son I would never change a thing about my past because if I changed anything I would not have my son. So... I guess I took the long ay of saying that even though there are bad things that happen... it all brings you to the next thing and then the next thing. Even in the case of death, someones life might be over, but the lives around that person have now been altered and set in a new course.

As for why there are mass killings from natural disater and even disease... it's population control. That sounds harsh in away but there are too many people here and god will even things out in his way. Does that make him ruthless, yes. Does it make him bad, no.

Sorry about the long post, but I hope it was worth it.

reply to post by Republican08


I listened to a sermon one night (LATE at night) on TV in 2005 when it caught my attention. It was an old preacher talking about his own thoughts on this and how God seems so absent at the times he is needed the most.

He talked about an old lady, a lady he knew well, that had walked out in front of his church one day after a wedding and got plowed over, killed instantly. The assailant ended up being a drunk driver. But why would god allow such a thing to such a goodhearted, innocent human being?

And what about the kids being murdered and raped in the world, why would God allow such things to happen to these innocent kids?

And why would God allow good people close to us to die needlessly at the hands of diseases, cancers and murderers? These are good people.

The preacher was in a state of deep depression, "questioning his faith", he said, after experiencing the tragic deaths of good, honest friends and family.

What he said though really got me thinking..

What he really said (apart from the biblical passages) was that while it might seem like God is not in control or that he is non-existent, he really is. And that while it might seem ridiculous for God to allow the needless death of a 90 year old lady at the hands of another human being, it is really all part of God's plan and how it is utterly impossible for us to know what that plan entails.

In a way, at the time, I honestly thought it was a copout! I was pissed off at the guy in a way. I watched the entire sermon (Me, a non-religious, non-Christian) for this?!

But I started thinking about it over the next day or two and it makes complete sense! At the time I, myself, was traveling a pretty rough road in my life too. 2 years before, my wife at the time had left me. 2 months before, my roommate of almost 2 years moved out without warning to live with the girl I introduced him to.. Only to leave me with all the bills (which I couldn't pay for). Then, 3 days after I saw that sermon on TV, my apartment and everything in it was lost in a fire. I go to sleep one night in January, I wake up at about 7am with fire singing my hair and burning my eyebrows. The fire was billowing up the wall right next to my bed and at first I thought I was dreaming the entire thing! I'm lucky I woke up. I'm probably luckier to be alive at all.
The cause for the fire was never determined. But I had lost everything I owned and I felt pretty alone.

It occurred to me that this guy was probably on to something though. What a revolutionary way of looking at things. Even if there is no god at all, and even if god only exists as some kind of human group subconscious, or even time itself.. The seemingly random progression of human events on this planet are not so random! Every human action is pre-thought before the actions take place. Every seemingly meaningless random event in the universe occurs because something else happened to cause it to happen and every seemingly random grouping of events adhere to very precise mathematic equations. There might not be a god, but there are absolutely no coincidences! We are only alive because events haven't transpired yet to cause our deaths (and we are all going to die). God may or may not even have anything to do with it. That is an assumption.

The day after the fire, I went into a deep depression (as if I wasn't already depressed) and for a while I was having pretty horrific nightmares involving the blaze. But the very next day after the fire, I felt like the wreckage of the past was instantly erased and that I was given a blank slate. This might even sound kind of stupid, but I felt reborn! Everything I owned was gone except for me, my red boxer shorts with polar bears on them, and my pickup truck. But I had everything! I finally really got it. I had always underestimated what it really meant to be alive on this planet. I don't take that lightly anymore.

Good people I had never even met came out of the woodwork to give me support, clothes, shoes, shirts, a coat, my family gave me a place to stay and everything worked out!!

We are given a very short time to be alive. Regardless of any argument for or against the existence of God, this is always going to be true. My point is to not dwell on why God does or doesn't do something. If God is real, I doubt it wouldn't exist to cater to human will or otherwise intervene on the behalf of certain people for whatever reason. Why would that be God's job anyway?!

I'm perfectly content in a world without a God. Because regardless of whether or not God exists, it wouldn't impact my outlook on life. So many people are so consumed with whether or not God exists and why. All I can say is.. Why even worry about it? It's not like we would ever know anyway! There are much more pressing issues that directly affect human beings on this planet that we CAN influence ourselves. And it all starts with influencing other people in a positive way.

It might seem futile to even try but it is the only way to really be and feel alive. And whether people realize it or not, the power of human interaction affects everything. Otherwise, we are all just wasting away waiting for death. And who wants to do that?!

We can dwell on the sick, dimented human tendencies for murder, violence, etc.. but it doesn't change the fact that we are still here and still alive. We still have time to live our lives and affect the world how we see fit. We have so much potential to do good things in this world and the only thing missing is the human willpower to make that happen. People just underestimate the power they really have.

-ChriS

reply to post by Miss Misty


Wow, I'm surprised you find me respectful of others, I'm trying to though lately.

Although earlier threads, were filled with as one said, long barbwire.
lol.

But I read that, and it is a heartwrenching story. But In jesus' time, heck even in some parts of the world, woman are giving birth, and they both die. There is no C-Section.

The way I see it, point blank. Is that Science, and doctors did the saving. God just takes the credit.

Could you imagine what would of happened, if scientist and doctors weren't here. I hope you wouldn't of prayed and tried a home birthing.

Alot of woman in poorer countries give birth to stillborn babies, and are ultimately cast out of their society for it, even worse they develop a tear in their bladder from it.

Now in the USA or Europe, the doctor will notice right away, stitch it up and no problem, for them they constantly pee all over themselves, it's humilation accompanied by a stillborn baby.

I 'followed' the journey of one of these african women on the Discovery channel. I never knew before.

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Republican08

 

How specific do you want me to be? If you read my quotes you would have read regarding my beliefs.
note: my beliefs are not absolute.

if you read it you would have seen regarding my beliefs, i stated that the creator of this hologram can either be future humans or god. in my terminology god is an unknown force, being or what so ever, as long as being an unknown creator. hence an unknown creator = god

Extreme Claims, require extreme evidence.

I ask for alot

If their is a unknown creator, why not take it a step further. To know creator, that this is just a vast, and crazy little dot, out of a huge void universe. Filled with explosions and black holes. and failed galaxies, and quite alot of 'dust'.

reply to post by BlasteR


I admire your lifestyle and attitude.

But for people like me, answers are everything.

It seems no miracle occurred in your life, except for being alive, but that could be turned and said basic instinct came up, the brain is very active during sleep and ears, smell, and taste, are still aroused and working, just in case.

Eyes, go into a different thing, and I don't think we know why yet.

The greatest part was your attitude.

But you tend to go onto morals, and I don't think a deity is needed for morals. No?

It seems like you think that if a person believes in God and prays that that is all they do. I think that is an unfair stance. I think most people do things to help themselves as well as ask God to help them. Do the doctors deserve credit for my son being safely born. Yes. Are they responsible for him putting on a 1 1/2 pounds in 4 days when he was eatting less then 2 ounces at a feeding, absolutely not. They couldn't even say why he developed so quickly.

As for women around the world that do not have the technology we have... sometimes those babies do survive. Maybe not all, but if any do.. is that not a miracle? Why do some have good things and others have bad... I don't know. Maybe there is a reason that we just don't know about yet. I know you don't like that answer but anybody that claims to say for sure is lying. I think everyone needs to be proactive in there lives and to help others as much as possible, but there is no reason why you can't also ask for help from God also.

God will not help those that do not try to help themselves.

reply to post by Republican08


You will only find your God within your own conscienceness. Within your own soul. Once you reach a higher awareness you will realize you are of and part of the prime creator. Not necessarily the God of the bible. So look ito a mirror and see "God" because you are of his vibration. BE AS ONE.

reply to post by Republican08


There is enough evidence supporting the idea that this whole world is a hologram and more so a game created by either future humans or god.

If this doesn't blow your socks off, then Hogan, who has just been appointed director of Fermilab's Center for Particle Astrophysics, has an even bigger shock in store: "If the GEO600 result is what I suspect it is, then we are all living in a giant cosmic hologram."

We are very close to creating fully realistic virtual reality where we don't just use the keyboard and mouse to roam around but our brains.

Brain-computer interfaces offer liberating possibilities like faster 'thought typing'.

If we have reached an age where we can type through our thoughts imagine the future. So if you can imagine the future, imagine a system where people like us are sent to be tested. To maybe see if we are fit to live in the actual reality.

We could have been in this system for more then just one life time, we don't know. Now we have drugs that can wipe out our memories, imagine the future once more please if you can.

Past lives have been investigated already and there is enough evidence to support that also:

from using the techniques of a detective or investigative reporter to evaluate claims that a young child, often just beginning to talk, had spontaneously started to speak of the details of another life. In a fairly typical case, a boy in Beirut spoke of being a 25-year-old mechanic, thrown to his death from a speeding car on a beach road. According to multiple witnesses, the boy provided the name of the driver, the exact location of the crash, the names of the mechanic's sisters and parents and cousins, and the people he hunted with -- all of which turned out to match the life of a man who had died several years before the boy was born, and who had no apparent connection to the boy's family.

by Tom Shroder

Connect the dots


[edit on 20-8-2009 by oozyism]

reply to post by oozyism


Very interesting of course.

Could you provide some links, it's intrigued me, I'd like to look into it, from the quotes the sources it came from

reply to post by KSPigpen


Dearest KSPIGPEN, you and I have spoken before my friend. Its because you are in this 3rd density right now and cannot remember where you were before. Yes there is evil among us. We must outweigh the evil by finding our own consiousness with the one. The prime creator. Your DNA has been seeded but your soul is only of the one true prime creator. Why even pray to something you dont KNOW? Find him in your soul. Each soul is in charge of its self KSpigpen. You cannot jusdge another soul until you know your own. Once you know your own you wont want to judge anothers soul. Its frankly not your job. With respect as always, Magantice

reply to post by Republican08


giant hologram:
www.newscientist.com...

past lives:
www.washingtonpost.com...

Thought typing:
www.sciencedaily.com...

memory editing drug:
www.thetartan.org...

note: my belief is not absolute. Due to advances in science and technology it could change, it has always changed, it has changed for along time, this is merely my latest update on where we are.

[edit on 20-8-2009 by oozyism]

Republican08

the problem with the inevitable outcome of your position is that it relegates all those people who you have such compassion for now, to never having a resolution...ever. Person is born, has a few miserable years of existence, dies and never experiences love or anything approaching justice either in life or in death or in after life. I don't agree with an universe in which there's no hope, in which later is just more of the same as now.. .the big bad nothing.


[edit on 20-8-2009 by undo]

I think. I'm going to start 'religiously' lol watching videos and reading about the holograph theory, and dimensions. Very interesting stuff.

And mind (snipping) boggling!

reply to post by undo


I agree with you completely. Life is not just this, something comes after...

Reply to post by Republican08

Wow...ur statements really are those of a true pessimist/athiest.

I'll say this..."he came down" and said I'm giving you the option to do what is good ad righteous or do what have you. It's not like he's torturing us or aything.

The creator is giving each of us achance to be ourselves but yet still be one....

When you have kids do you not try to teach them right from wrong? And when they mess up, do you not punish them?


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by Miss Misty


yay!

and what about this one:

let's say for the sake of argument, that there really isn't a god or an afterlife. we develop our technology to the point where we can live forever. because we've done that, we have to make distinctions on who can and cannot procreate, afterall, there's only so much room and resources. the criteria for procreation gets snobbier and snobbier till no one can meet up to the standards. this leaves only a handful of survivors who are going to live forever in what amounts to an existent without any real meaning-- after all, we're just a bunch of random chemicals hurtling threw the ordered chaos of space.

so then it becomes an endless search for thrills. eventually, we see everything there is to see, and have done everything there is to do, many times over. nothing is new. this leads to an unbearable nihilistic monotony and we ask to have ourselves shut off. terminated.

all that knowledge, wisdom and experience, gone. why? because we forgot what the real important ingredient was ... love. if you love someone, you're gonna hope and wish the best for them.

that's the ticket, right there. and in such a loving framework, nothing is dull, every moment is new and interesting. and it all has a clear and compassionate outcome and meaning.

reply to post by Miss Misty

I am the victim of molestation and of abandonment. My mother dropped me off at my grandmas house saying she would be back the next day... never to return when I was 4 years old. I was lucky to be adopted by people who then loved me and took good care of me from that point on.

Well I'm going to get flamed for this but it needs to be asked and I've got a spine and my own mind.

Where exactly was your god when you were being molested ?

Clearly in this instance you're god cannot have been omniscient and compassionate (as claimed by most) at the same time.

Your god either did not know that you were being abused against your will or lacked the compassion (that the majority of us have) and prevented your suffering.

No doubt many will try to rationalize (rational lies ?) this away with the fact you were then taken good care of which was part of the plan.

This type of rationalization has to be the most sickening part of xtianity (to finger one cult) it makes an excuse for an abuser, puts partial responsibility on the abused.

To be an innocent of any wrong doing and have to suffer at the hands of another but claim there is a compassionate entity with you at all times loving you has to be one of the biggest insults to human intelligence.


More often than not, we humans seek a reason for someones abuse of us, the eternal question "Why did this happen to me, why did I deserve this ?" and so on.

Very few victims come to the rational conclusion that they were a victim by chance, they did not deserve to be a victim and were not responsible in any way.

Xtianity in particular, takes the responsibility and sticks it on the devil because the perpetrator can be "Saved" at any time so is less responsible .

Then comes the mind funk the devil/satan that somehow talked the perpetrator into action, was created (allegedly) by the same being that created the victim, the all compassionate yawehjesus god.

Over the years I could not fail to notice the volume of victims that have for whatever reason, turned to xtianity in some form perhaps to seek closure.

Not a small amount choosing to to become Jehovas witnesses, the constant rationalizing that god has nothing to do with the sh##t that happens to people is staggering.

Reply to post by moocowman

Why do athiests get to question theists beliefs, yet when a xtian questions an athiests beliefs we are "shoving our religion down their throat"?


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com