'I wouldn't be here if not for the NHS': Stephen Hawking defends UK's 'Orwellian' healthcare a

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by JohnnyElohim
Ignores the rest of the equation: people who support national health care are willing to pay for the health of others.

And what about the majority who does NOT national healthcare?
Oh right, it's your way or the highway.

You appear more interested in inciting frustrated argument rather than fruitful debate. How about you stop maligning your opponents (and some of your audience)?

Just as I thought, you cannot tolerate people with a different opinion. Pathetic!

Try education yourself and commenting on my post:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 8/12/2009 by WhatTheory]

I've shown you more politeness and tolerance than you've shown any of your contemporaries here. I think you're barking up the wrong tree there. I am quite educated on the matter -- why don't you comment on my post that cites the facts of the matter?

No one said "my way or the highway". There is no such discussion going on. Methinks thou doth protest too much.

Regardless of whether you want government healthcare, the Constitution does not give the Federal Government power to be involved with it.

So, if you truly want government sponsored healthcare, get an amendment.

Originally posted by Double Eights
Regardless of whether you want government healthcare, the Constitution does not give the Federal Government power to be involved with it.

So, if you truly want government sponsored healthcare, get an amendment.

Like the "constitution" counts for anything in your country anymore.

It doesn't.

The founding fathers were against democracy but it keeps being pushed, like some kind of buzz word...

And the reason I bring up democracy, is because you americans seem to think it has something to do with the constitution. It does not.

The constitution means NOTHING.

the constitution is being violated by your OWN government, and ignored, EVERY DAY!!!!!



[edit on 12-8-2009 by USER]

reply to post by Double Eights


and if you had brains you would know that the fed is not .. er oh wait sorry the fed..

Do not mean to be off topic here but who do you think prints money? and your worrying about health care?

its a scam.. only that in england we DEAMMAND good care

we go to work like good little slaves they give us MONEY then TAX u for being a good healthy worker

In the usa NOPE

The dogs on your door my friend DO not care about the USA they want money

Insurance companies !

Middle man

In the UK our health is provided by BOTH the goverment AND private investors

and why not?

its all about MONEY... nothing more.. tho granted a healthy work force is a productive one ; )

Originally posted by drwizardphd
However, based on your childish attitude I'm going to assume you're a teenager or young adult

I know, how dare anyone be opposed to national healthcare and more government intervention. They must be childish to think such things. Your statement was very lame.

That being said, I am absolutely disgusted that my countryman who is less fortunate does not even have the option to see a doctor, because people like you think they are being lazy.

Look, because only 8 million Americans cannot afford healthcare, I am supposed to let the federal government take over the industry? Is that your brilliant argument? Give me a break!

Apparently those times are long gone.

Again, friends, family and charities should help those who are unfortunate and NOT the federal government.

Is the right to free healthcare before or after the freedom of speech and religion and the right to bear arms? Where is it?

I would gladly pay extra in taxes to ensure that every US citizen has equal access to good healthcare.

Ok, good for you. How about they add a check box on the tax returns and YOU could give as much as you want. Don't push your socialist agenda on me however.

Also, you must consider: if you pay a little more in taxes to get universal healthcare, then you no longer need to pay the criminal insurance companies the ridiculous rates they demand for their coverage. So in the long run, you would actually save money.

Save money?? Pfft..
Which government run agencies are bankrupt and riddled with fraud and corruption? Oh yeah, medicare, medicaid, welfare, VA hospitals and the post office to name just a few. Yeah, the government will save us money. Wow, what a lame argument you made.

Or is it simply because you can't stand the idea of helping someone out?

Yeah, that's it. You hit the nail on the head. /sarcasm.
I give to charities plus as stated before, along with charities, friends and family should help each other out and NOT the federal government. Good grief!

Selfishness.

Sorry, but your ideology is based on selfishness.
Taking other peoples money by force and giving it to others who are asking for it is the definition of selfishness.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by WhatTheory


I think you miss the point mister.

It's not about government intervention.

If you end up with anything like we have in the UK, it would be about CHOICE.

Those that couldn't afford would get paid for and those that can afford better pay for it.

As an individual it is only pennies towards the NHS. Big deal.

But like I say, I'm knackered and off to bed.

You'll have reform whether you want it or not.

We ALL will.

Originally posted by JohnnyElohim
A quick fact check.

The U.S. currently expends more per capita from the hands of private buyers than the UK, Sweden, Japan, Germany, France, Canada, or Australia. The U.S. has the highest infant morality rate out of any of those countries. The U.S. has lowest life expectency out of those countries. The U.S. spends more of it's GDP on health care than any of those countries. The U.S. already spends more government revenue by percentile than any of those countries. The U.S. government pays the lowest percentage of health costs out of any of those countries.

Citation: www.oecd.org...

Stop and think about that for a minute. The U.S. has the most expensive, least efficient system for providing something that most of the world feels is a basic human right.

All of your points have already been proven lies and misrepresentation earlier in the thread. Stop speading propaganda.

Here is the post debunking all your ridiculous statements:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I would appreciate it if we could stop with the personal sniping and keep to the topic of the thread.

Thanks.

Originally posted by USER
It's not about government intervention.

Yes, it is. Perhaps not in the UK, but in America it is. We were founded with the concept of minimal government.

You'll have reform whether you want it or not.

This proves you are either not reading posts or you have reading comprehension issues.

Where did I say I am NOT for healthcare reform? Answer: I did not.
I don't want national healthcare. Our current system is the best and only needs a few tweaks of reform to make sure the 8 million without coverage who needs it can get it.

Look, I'm glad you are happy with your system but it will not work here. One of the main reasons is because America was founded on minimal government. Plus America has 5 times the population of the UK so it will not work here.

Originally posted by Double Eights

Originally posted by ladyinwaitingGet to know your country, and your fellow man.

you expect me to go to work and give them my paycheck so they can get their hemorrhoids looked at?

lol. No, I don't expect anybody to give their paycheck, nor do I wish to give mine. But I don't mind having a small amount deducted to reduce human suffering. And really, that's all it amounts to. Nobody's taking anybody's paycheck.

Except, WhatTheory, that idea is held by one country only: The United States.

To say that every other country in the world that has universal health care (which is virtually all of them) is Socialist, would be insane.

Getting treatment for a sickness is not a privilege, I'm sorry.

That's a right everyone should have, and paying large amounts of money on it is a bit crazy to me.

Our system is screwed up, WhatTheory.

reply to post by Duzey


Who's sniping?

There's nothing wrong with pointing out that someone's selfish...

Surely...?

reply to post by Dermo



Most of us do not want the U.S. to become a puppet image of the UK, or any of the pro Socialist nations around the world... Why is it so hard to understand that?

Veteran hospitals in the U.S. ARE RUN BY THE STATE, and THEY SUCK. If you haven't been to one I recommend you just go to the waiting room and wait there for a few hurs and see what happens...

Veteran hospitals in the U.S. ARE NATIONALIZED HEALTHCARE....

The healthcare in the U.S. has it's problems but so does the Socialized healthcare in every nation...

The Socialized healthcare in several countries are GOING BANKRUPT.

I have heard some lunatics claim "the United States will join the civilized world once we have their Socialized healthcare"...

Seriously that's the stupidest claim I have heard, more so since many people from around the world actually have to come to the U.S. to be treated, or operated on because their PERFECT Socialized healthcare can't take care of certain operations, and treatments...

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


Well said, Lady.

You get a star from me.

reply to post by USER


If a comment is about a member and not the topic, it is off-topic. So yes, pointing out that someone is selfish is a no-no.

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
But I don't mind having a small amount deducted to reduce human suffering.

Ok, let's add a checkbox on the tax returns so YOU can contribute as much as you want. This way, I don't have to contribute for something I don't believe in and you can contribute to something you believe in.

And really, that's all it amounts to. Nobody's taking anybody's paycheck.

This is what it will take to pay for this by the end of 10 years. Everyone will be taxed to unbelievable levels to pay for national healthcare. Just look at medicare, medicaid, VA hospitals, welfare and the post office. They are all bankrupt and full of fraud and corruption. What makes you think national healthcare will be any different? Why would you trust the government? Makes no sense.


[edit on 8/12/2009 by WhatTheory]

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by USER
It works here in the UK.

IT WORKS.

No it does not...

Sorry, I'm late to this thread. So let me get this straight.

This thread is about the Healthcare system in England.

The member USER lives in UK and is happy with the system in HIS country.

The member WhatTheory, an American, claims the UK system is flawed and a failure.

WhatTheory is trying to convince USER that he is not allowed to like it.

And WTF accuses others of being a Troll. (BTW I read your lame post. Data inconclusive and mired in my book.) CATO Institute is neocon think tank.

reply to post by WhatTheory


Alright, WhatTheory.

You don't need to help out.

Some of us will, though.