'I wouldn't be here if not for the NHS': Stephen Hawking defends UK's 'Orwellian' healthcare a, page 6
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reply posted on 12-8-2009 @ 06:22 PM by WhatTheory
Here is a article by Stanford University. It clearly points out the major problems with the NHS and why it sucks compared to the U.S. system.

Standford University Study

Oh, and let's not forget that the NHS is the worlds 3rd largest employer.
Just image the number of employees it would take to run the American system. Is this what we really want? I don't think so.

A NHS type of system just would NOT work in America especially considering that the U.S. has about 5 times the population of the UK.

NHS is world's biggest employer after Indian rail and Chinese Army

And before someone starts spouting off about the WHO ranking, let me make a few points:
For starters, the WHO ranking system is bogus for many reasons and the entire organization is a leftist group. So don't put them on a pedastal because they are about equal in standing as the UN.

The main reasons the WHO ranks the U.S. 37th is because they add deaths from non natural causes into its calculations. Because of the size of the U.S., we rank number one in car accident fatalities worldwide which of course skews the results. This little fact has nothing to do with healthcare. Boy, the leftists like to skew results.

If you took rankings based on how well the health care was actually performed USA ranks at the very top in several categories.

Here is an article about this subject:
WHO Lies About US Health Care System

Even more in depth here:
CATO Institute

The U.S. system is the best in the world already. Our system is what advances most of the medical technologies which the socialist systems suck up. If the U.S. has a socialist system then medical breakthroughs will suffer greatly.

I am not saying our system is perfect, but there is no need to reinvent the wheel when all we have to do is make some minor tweaks to the current system.

[edit on 8/12/2009 by WhatTheory]


reply posted on 12-8-2009 @ 06:29 PM by JennyJen
I admit that I haven't read all of this thread, or commented on the US' fears of how a similar NHS system could work yet but I feel like I should chuck in my two cents.


As much as I am opposed to any kind of big-brother authority, I do think that our NHS system works. As a background, my first boyfriend was American and I moved to Milwaukee to live with him a while. I have many friends over there so have experienced the good and bad points of our different health systems and always found UK's to be better. I know those who have various medical complaints but due to lack of money, are unable to receive proper care for them. One guy I knew broke his leg, and never got it seen to. Another suffered badly from bulimia but was unable to get any support to overcome it. Without going into too much detail, I've needed to have alot of medical care over the past few years for various ailments and I can honestly say that if I hadn't received that support, I may not be here now.

No matter what we do, or how careful we are, TPTB already have enough sources to know our lives inside out. It's bloody scary but its a fact. If we can get something back from them, then sc*w it, I say. Of course, always be suspecious of any drugs pushed on to you and properly research them before you go with it. But honestly, why are people so oppossed to this idea when every american I know has said for years that they wish they had the same care that we are given in the UK?


((Edited to correct bad grammar!))

[edit on 12-8-2009 by JennyJen]


reply posted on 12-8-2009 @ 06:30 PM by Kaytagg
Originally posted by muzzleflash
Initially I used to think Mr Hawking was a smart dude. Until I read one of his books, than I realized he is little more than a mouthpiece for the mainstream science establishment.

Science that you probably don't understand.

His ideas about the Universe are outdated and archaic, so I am totally not surprised by his statements on this issue.

It's easy to criticize from a standpoint of ignorance.

I also agree that he most likely got far better treatment than the average joe, I mean come on every doctor would be drooling and begging for his autograph.

No, I am sorry, hes no Carl Sagan or Michio Kaku. He never came off as being a brilliant guy to me, ever. Just an average physicist with too much time on his hands.

He's not the messiah. What were you expecting? But he is a very intelligent man. Most geniuses, especially in the field of theoretical physics, are at heart mathematicians. If you are not well versed in mathematics, you probably can hold no appreciation for what he does.

He is rarely open to new or different ideas, he is always so caught up in his own ideas that he does not even consider other points of view.

Ya as you can see, I would argue with the guy all night about most everything.

It's easy to "argue" about something you don't understand. Just look at some of the questions and comments at a "Town Hall Meeting."

I see Carl Sagan or Michio Kaku as open minded scientists who are willing to consider many variables. And I see Stephen Hawking as a closed minded scientist who will only consider his own opinion and ignore anything that conflicts with it.

Carl Sagan is dead.

Michio Kaku is a fine scientist. But so is Stephen Hawking.

And with all due respect to Michio Kaku, Hawking is much more accomplished than Kaku.

It's also worth noting there are plenty of geniuses out there -- but very few of them (Neil Tyson, Sagan, Hawking, Kaku, etc) "teach" it to the lay man through popular media such as movies/tv/books which are generally dumbed down and inaccurate for the purposes of allowing those without a double PH.D. in physics and math to understand (which is the way 99% of us non-Ph.D.s like it).


reply posted on 12-8-2009 @ 06:30 PM by grahag
Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by ModernAcademia


Additionally, I am also a Stephen Hawking fan, but I don't believe his opinions hold weight in every forum. His Science, Physics, and Astronomy is second to none, but I won't ask him how to tile my bathroom, or stitch a wound!

I see people ascribing opinions of our "Accepted Geniuses" to many unrelated topics. Stephen Hawkings opinion on Healthcare is no better than Rosie O'Donnells opinion on Astronomy, or Dr. Gupta's opinion on Fashion!

Hope that helps!


His opinion on Healthcare is valid, one, because he was used as an example where "socialized" medicine would have let him die, yet, it's the reason that he is alive right now.

NO system is perfect and there will be tragedies in ANY systems. I do know that Stephen Hawking is about 50 times smarter than I am, so I'm more likely to trust his opinion that someone who will have power and financial loss should the new system come into effect.


reply posted on 12-8-2009 @ 06:38 PM by OverSword
reply to post by Merigold


Well you should have just gone without the insurance since it's against the law not to treat you and they would have worked out a payment plan. Perhaps you could have figured that out if you had looked into it or perhaps you are just one of those people who can't do anything without your mommy holding your hand?


reply posted on 12-8-2009 @ 06:41 PM by WhatTheory
Originally posted by ofhumandescent
There are currently 49 million American's with no health care.

This is another lie or misrepresentation.
The true number is around 8 million. It's funny how this number keeps climbing in a lame attempt for people to use it as ammunition.

Months ago it was 25-30 million, then it climbed to between 30-40 million and NOW we are at almost 50 million. What a joke if this was not so serious.

This must be like how the democrats keep finding more and more votes after the polls have closed.

The Top Ten Myths of American Health Care: A Citizen's Guide

Lack of health insurance does not mean lack of health care, and the vast majority of the uninsured are either middle- to high-income people who choose not to buy insurance, noncitizens or people eligible for other government medical programs. This does not mean there are no hardship cases, as Ms. Pipes acknowledges, but the number of chronically uninsured who most need assistance is about 8 million, a much more manageable number.


Here is another source:
Obama Care: Robbing From Peter to Pay Paul




[edit on 8/12/2009 by WhatTheory]


reply posted on 12-8-2009 @ 06:52 PM by ykyrys
reply to post by ModernAcademia

My sentiments? Stephen Hawking has the standings of someone in the standings of an Einstein, unchallenged. Do you honestly think that England, with its socialized healthcare would ever allow this genius to whither and die? I am positive that any country; wherever Stephen Hawking resides, would go out of their way to supplement his health care, whatever the cost or hardship. He is that countries treasure!!!



reply posted on 12-8-2009 @ 06:58 PM by CRB86
Originally posted by ykyrys
reply to post by ModernAcademia

My sentiments? Stephen Hawking has the standings of someone in the standings of an Einstein, unchallenged. Do you honestly think that England, with its socialized healthcare would ever allow this genius to whither and die? I am positive that any country; wherever Stephen Hawking resides, would go out of their way to supplement his health care, whatever the cost or hardship. He is that countries treasure!!!


Are you not listening? He wasn't recognised as a genius when he became afflicted with the disease. He was just another human being. He was saved because, regardless of the debased propaganda that you are getting fed over there, the NHS is committed to saving as many lives as possible, whoever you are and however much money you have.


reply posted on 12-8-2009 @ 07:07 PM by ladyinwaiting
reply to post by RRconservative
[mo
I would like to add couple of thoughts :


~I live in the U.S. also, and consequently would not be so presumptious as to address the functioning of UK health care. To make generalizations about another nation's system's is rather foolish and grandiose. After all, their country does not seem to be the one screaming with a crisis.

Additionally, your signature says it all. Mind closed. Hatred to the forefront. Petty and narrowmindedness such as the content of this is exactly what is wrong with our country now. Hating for the sake of Hate.


Other thoughts:

~Carl Sagan is not even remotely in the same class as Stephen Hawking, and Mr. Sagan would be the first one to tell you that, I'm sure.
Anybody who finds his work archaic: You give yourself away.


~Stephen Hawking is loved and respected globally, and I'm sure he has had much help outside any insurance company. In fact, I've read accounts of Hollywood movie stars, and other figures, providing him with different doctors, equipment, and the like. Because he is loved. That has opened a lot of doors for him, I'm sure. But ALS for 40 years? Incredible.

[edit on 8/12/0909 by ladyinwaiting]
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