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'I wouldn't be here if not for the NHS': Stephen Hawking defends UK's 'Orwellian' healthcare a

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posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 06:22 PM
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Here is a article by Stanford University. It clearly points out the major problems with the NHS and why it sucks compared to the U.S. system.

Standford University Study

Oh, and let's not forget that the NHS is the worlds 3rd largest employer.
Just image the number of employees it would take to run the American system. Is this what we really want? I don't think so.

A NHS type of system just would NOT work in America especially considering that the U.S. has about 5 times the population of the UK.

NHS is world's biggest employer after Indian rail and Chinese Army

And before someone starts spouting off about the WHO ranking, let me make a few points:
For starters, the WHO ranking system is bogus for many reasons and the entire organization is a leftist group. So don't put them on a pedastal because they are about equal in standing as the UN.

The main reasons the WHO ranks the U.S. 37th is because they add deaths from non natural causes into its calculations. Because of the size of the U.S., we rank number one in car accident fatalities worldwide which of course skews the results. This little fact has nothing to do with healthcare. Boy, the leftists like to skew results.

If you took rankings based on how well the health care was actually performed USA ranks at the very top in several categories.

Here is an article about this subject:
WHO Lies About US Health Care System

Even more in depth here:
CATO Institute

The U.S. system is the best in the world already. Our system is what advances most of the medical technologies which the socialist systems suck up. If the U.S. has a socialist system then medical breakthroughs will suffer greatly.

I am not saying our system is perfect, but there is no need to reinvent the wheel when all we have to do is make some minor tweaks to the current system.

[edit on 8/12/2009 by WhatTheory]




posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 06:29 PM
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Universall Healthcare for everyone (Service to others)

Our current Healthcare system (Service to self).

It is time for a change.

Everyone deserves good healthcare.

There are currently 49 million American's with no health care.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 06:29 PM
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I admit that I haven't read all of this thread, or commented on the US' fears of how a similar NHS system could work yet but I feel like I should chuck in my two cents.


As much as I am opposed to any kind of big-brother authority, I do think that our NHS system works. As a background, my first boyfriend was American and I moved to Milwaukee to live with him a while. I have many friends over there so have experienced the good and bad points of our different health systems and always found UK's to be better. I know those who have various medical complaints but due to lack of money, are unable to receive proper care for them. One guy I knew broke his leg, and never got it seen to. Another suffered badly from bulimia but was unable to get any support to overcome it. Without going into too much detail, I've needed to have alot of medical care over the past few years for various ailments and I can honestly say that if I hadn't received that support, I may not be here now.

No matter what we do, or how careful we are, TPTB already have enough sources to know our lives inside out. It's bloody scary but its a fact. If we can get something back from them, then sc*w it, I say. Of course, always be suspecious of any drugs pushed on to you and properly research them before you go with it. But honestly, why are people so oppossed to this idea when every american I know has said for years that they wish they had the same care that we are given in the UK?


((Edited to correct bad grammar!))

[edit on 12-8-2009 by JennyJen]



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash
Initially I used to think Mr Hawking was a smart dude. Until I read one of his books, than I realized he is little more than a mouthpiece for the mainstream science establishment.

Science that you probably don't understand.


His ideas about the Universe are outdated and archaic, so I am totally not surprised by his statements on this issue.

It's easy to criticize from a standpoint of ignorance.


I also agree that he most likely got far better treatment than the average joe, I mean come on every doctor would be drooling and begging for his autograph.

No, I am sorry, hes no Carl Sagan or Michio Kaku. He never came off as being a brilliant guy to me, ever. Just an average physicist with too much time on his hands.

He's not the messiah. What were you expecting? But he is a very intelligent man. Most geniuses, especially in the field of theoretical physics, are at heart mathematicians. If you are not well versed in mathematics, you probably can hold no appreciation for what he does.


He is rarely open to new or different ideas, he is always so caught up in his own ideas that he does not even consider other points of view.

Ya as you can see, I would argue with the guy all night about most everything.

It's easy to "argue" about something you don't understand. Just look at some of the questions and comments at a "Town Hall Meeting."


I see Carl Sagan or Michio Kaku as open minded scientists who are willing to consider many variables. And I see Stephen Hawking as a closed minded scientist who will only consider his own opinion and ignore anything that conflicts with it.

Carl Sagan is dead.

Michio Kaku is a fine scientist. But so is Stephen Hawking.

And with all due respect to Michio Kaku, Hawking is much more accomplished than Kaku.

It's also worth noting there are plenty of geniuses out there -- but very few of them (Neil Tyson, Sagan, Hawking, Kaku, etc) "teach" it to the lay man through popular media such as movies/tv/books which are generally dumbed down and inaccurate for the purposes of allowing those without a double PH.D. in physics and math to understand (which is the way 99% of us non-Ph.D.s like it).



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Additionally, I am also a Stephen Hawking fan, but I don't believe his opinions hold weight in every forum. His Science, Physics, and Astronomy is second to none, but I won't ask him how to tile my bathroom, or stitch a wound!

I see people ascribing opinions of our "Accepted Geniuses" to many unrelated topics. Stephen Hawkings opinion on Healthcare is no better than Rosie O'Donnells opinion on Astronomy, or Dr. Gupta's opinion on Fashion!

Hope that helps!


His opinion on Healthcare is valid, one, because he was used as an example where "socialized" medicine would have let him die, yet, it's the reason that he is alive right now.

NO system is perfect and there will be tragedies in ANY systems. I do know that Stephen Hawking is about 50 times smarter than I am, so I'm more likely to trust his opinion that someone who will have power and financial loss should the new system come into effect.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by Merigold
 


Well you should have just gone without the insurance since it's against the law not to treat you and they would have worked out a payment plan. Perhaps you could have figured that out if you had looked into it or perhaps you are just one of those people who can't do anything without your mommy holding your hand?



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by ofhumandescent
There are currently 49 million American's with no health care.

This is another lie or misrepresentation.

The true number is around 8 million. It's funny how this number keeps climbing in a lame attempt for people to use it as ammunition.

Months ago it was 25-30 million, then it climbed to between 30-40 million and NOW we are at almost 50 million. What a joke if this was not so serious.


This must be like how the democrats keep finding more and more votes after the polls have closed.


The Top Ten Myths of American Health Care: A Citizen's Guide


Lack of health insurance does not mean lack of health care, and the vast majority of the uninsured are either middle- to high-income people who choose not to buy insurance, noncitizens or people eligible for other government medical programs. This does not mean there are no hardship cases, as Ms. Pipes acknowledges, but the number of chronically uninsured who most need assistance is about 8 million, a much more manageable number.


Here is another source:
Obama Care: Robbing From Peter to Pay Paul




[edit on 8/12/2009 by WhatTheory]



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 06:46 PM
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My uncle had Lou Gehrig's disease and passed away 2 years after diagnosis. He didnt have the deep pockets that hawkenings has so his statement is kind of misleading and I guess another 'out of touch' reality propagandist statement. The good thing is atleast Obama gets caught on camera making all of these lies.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 06:49 PM
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The NHS is evil? What a load of crap.
Who cares what US Senators think. You run your country your way and we'll run our country our way. Our National Health Service is one of Britain’s most treasured institutions, that’s touched the lives of hundreds of millions of people and saved countless lives and the fact that we all contribute to improving & saving other people's lives is what makes it all so worthwhile and we wouldn't have it any other way.
The only people who oppose such a system, do so because they are greedy and selfish.
I guess your motto is "all for one and to hell with everyone else".


[edit on 12-8-2009 by kindred]



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 06:50 PM
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Originally posted by epete22
My uncle had Lou Gehrig's disease and passed away 2 years after diagnosis. He didnt have the deep pockets that hawkenings has so his statement is kind of misleading and I guess another 'out of touch' reality propagandist statement. The good thing is atleast Obama gets caught on camera making all of these lies.


Hawking didn't have deep pockets when he was diagnosed with Lou Gehrig's disease. He was very poor, at the time.

Afaik, his not dieing from Lou Gehrig's is an anomaly. He should have died -- why didn't he? It probably had little to do with the NHS or any medical intervention possible at the time. He simply didn't die.

Maybe someone who knows more about Hawking's health records can speak more to this.


Btw, why do you need "deep pockets" to survive a disease? I thought health care in the UK was free.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 06:51 PM
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No one has to defend any Health Care Bill in Washington.


If this bill is so wonderful, the let Washington implement this healthcare for everyone in Washington first, so basically everyone from the president down get the same care, then I will start to have more faith in Washington.

Practice what you are preaching or selling.


Will they do this, lol I think not they have Tier 1 Premium Health Care for all Politicians.

[edit on 12-8-2009 by Realtruth]



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 

My sentiments? Stephen Hawking has the standings of someone in the standings of an Einstein, unchallenged. Do you honestly think that England, with its socialized healthcare would ever allow this genius to whither and die? I am positive that any country; wherever Stephen Hawking resides, would go out of their way to supplement his health care, whatever the cost or hardship. He is that countries treasure!!!



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 06:55 PM
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Originally posted by kindred
The only people who oppose such a system, do so because they are greedy and selfish.

You have it totally upside down.

Sorry, but what's selfish is people wanting others to pay for their services like healthcare. What's selfish is people wanting something for nothing. What's selfish is people wanting to take a easy ride off the backs of hard working individuals. It's my money and I earned it and NO, you cannot have any. I will choose who I want to help.

The taxpayer already pays for their food stamps, WICA, welfare, medicaid, medicare and housing. I'm sure I am missing something. Do you want a new car also?



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 06:56 PM
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Where to start...

It sounds like many of you in the US don't want a national health service (of sorts).

Ask yourselves why not?

Is it really such a big conspiracy? (and believe me.... I'm full of them).

I live in the UK, can't afford private healthcare (which I gather I would have to have if I lived in the US) but...

Four months ago I had an operation on my legs, done by one of the best surgeons in the field - and it was all covered by the NHS.

The way the NHS works is that they employ the same doctors as the private sector. These doctors can be doing "private" work one day and then NHS work the next.

It's not preferential.

The only good thing about going private is the waiting lists are a lot shorter. The work is carried out by the same people!

The other advantage is that if you ask for beer in a "private" hospital - you get it (my gran had her cateracts done and afterwards was served with barley wine).

That's not a joke.

And let's face it, if you don't like it.... THEN is the time to start paying to go private...

But the US seem to be putting the cart before the horse...



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 06:57 PM
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Long live the NHS!!

I have lived all my life in the UK and i have never had ANY problem with the NHS.. yes its some wat "slow" in that regard and its not the best thing in the world BUT the worry of INSURANCE is just BIZZAR to anyone in the uk..

We have 2 systems.. First one is that EVERYONE pays for it so no matter how ill you are or whatever you get to see a GP then you go the hospital if you need it.. Then at the same time IF and I do mean IF you want a private plan YOU can have BOTH ...

win win

The usa should do the same it is possible with the "PUBLIC" system..

It will be the same as ours but the USA system is more so paying insurance companies .. so if the goverment gets in the game i think you will be better off

If someone told me sorry mate we cant do that because of xxx money or pre condition

he would be the one needed care ; )

Long live OUR NHS 65 years and still going strong and it worth more than i spend on the queen..

she costs me 50p a year!!!



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 06:58 PM
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Originally posted by ykyrys
reply to post by ModernAcademia
 

My sentiments? Stephen Hawking has the standings of someone in the standings of an Einstein, unchallenged. Do you honestly think that England, with its socialized healthcare would ever allow this genius to whither and die? I am positive that any country; wherever Stephen Hawking resides, would go out of their way to supplement his health care, whatever the cost or hardship. He is that countries treasure!!!


Are you not listening? He wasn't recognised as a genius when he became afflicted with the disease. He was just another human being. He was saved because, regardless of the debased propaganda that you are getting fed over there, the NHS is committed to saving as many lives as possible, whoever you are and however much money you have.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 06:59 PM
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While I agree that citing the opinion of some genius, in a topic that is not his/her specialty, is meaningless, having Stephen Hawking speak about NHS is reasonable. Because of his chronic, severe medical condition, Dr. Hawking has had far more experience with the NHS than most people ever would during their lifetimes. That, rather than his cosmological theories, gives weight to his opinions.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 07:07 PM
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reply to post by RRconservative
[mo
I would like to add couple of thoughts :


~I live in the U.S. also, and consequently would not be so presumptious as to address the functioning of UK health care. To make generalizations about another nation's system's is rather foolish and grandiose. After all, their country does not seem to be the one screaming with a crisis.

Additionally, your signature says it all. Mind closed. Hatred to the forefront. Petty and narrowmindedness such as the content of this is exactly what is wrong with our country now. Hating for the sake of Hate.


Other thoughts:

~Carl Sagan is not even remotely in the same class as Stephen Hawking, and Mr. Sagan would be the first one to tell you that, I'm sure.
Anybody who finds his work archaic:
You give yourself away.


~Stephen Hawking is loved and respected globally, and I'm sure he has had much help outside any insurance company. In fact, I've read accounts of Hollywood movie stars, and other figures, providing him with different doctors, equipment, and the like. Because he is loved. That has opened a lot of doors for him, I'm sure. But ALS for 40 years? Incredible.

[edit on 8/12/0909 by ladyinwaiting]



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by kindred
I guess your motto is "all for one and to hell with everyone else".

Basically yes. It's called individualism and earning everything you have and want. This is what gives people motivation and drive to better themselves and others which makes for an awesome society. Why do you think America has surpassed all other countries in practically every catagory, who have been around a lot longer, in 200+ years what they could not accomplish in their total existance?

It's definitely NOT living off the nipple of government like in the UK from cradle to grave.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 07:15 PM
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Americans have finally turned totally mental! Long live the National Health System!



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