'I wouldn't be here if not for the NHS': Stephen Hawking defends UK's 'Orwellian' healthcare a

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by USER
It's not about government intervention.

Yes, it is. Perhaps not in the UK, but in America it is. We were founded with the concept of minimal government.

You'll have reform whether you want it or not.

This proves you are either not reading posts or you have reading comprehension issues.

Where did I say I am NOT for healthcare reform? Answer: I did not.
I don't want national healthcare. Our current system is the best and only needs a few tweaks of reform to make sure the 8 million without coverage who needs it can get it.

Look, I'm glad you are happy with your system but it will not work here. One of the main reasons is because America was founded on minimal government. Plus America has 5 times the population of the UK so it will not work here.

No, I'm sorry but it is NOT the best.

It is not even good....

Futhermore I would appreciate it if you did NOT make rude comments like "comprehension issues".

Probably best to read your OWN NATION'S constitution and realise how far your government has deviated from it... and see that you will have no choice.

I'm not being funny but TPTB don't care what you or I think....

Like I said, you will get whatever the OWNERS give you.

Adios.

reply to post by WhatTheory

Yes, it is. Perhaps not in the UK, but in America it is. We were founded with the concept of minimal government.

that is just a joke...

im sorry but understand something

you are the TPTB's bitch

minimal? are u kidding me? u spend more on ARMS than any other nation PUT TO GETHER did u read that?

and u bitch and whine about health care?
LOL # me...

ur nation is being scammed by insurance companies ,,, Fact

reply to post by Mak Manto


Gee, I was thinking the same thing about your post.

("Finally! she thought, "a voice of reason".

What you said made me think, "here we are arguing over what amounts to politcal ideology, and morality, and it's not me, or you, or them. It's our system. Our system is terribly inadequate. It's gotten completely out of control. "

Once a cure for something has been established, or whether just reliable treatment has been secured, it should be made available to all who need it.
Why? Because it exists.
Because the next guy is just as human as the one who has private insurance. Because the next guy is entitled even if he is broke.
Because it's the right thing to do.

The system is broken. You're absolutely right.

[edit on 8/12/0909 by ladyinwaiting]

BTW, i do want to find out why the "pro Obama healthcare" seem all to not care at all what is going to happen to elder Americans under the Obama healthcare plan?....

You want to claim those of us who don't wantyour Socialized medicen are selfish, yet at the same time you all fail to admit the fact that elder Americans will be almost without any healthcare under the Socialized healthcare program that Obama and his administration want...

We have even posted STRAIGHT FROM OBAMA'S MOUTH what he thinks about elder people getting healthcare....

Originally posted by Mak Manto
Our system is screwed up, WhatTheory.

Again, I did not say it was perfect.
Only about 8 million people who want healthcare cannot afford it. All we need to do is tweak our current system and NOT reinvent the square wheel. I am for reform, just not government national healhcare type of reform.

Considering that medicaid, medicare, VA hospitals, welfare and the post office are bankrupt, full of fraud and corruption, what makes you think national healthcare will be any different? Why would you trust the government? Makes no sense.

Well, a sad story I always remind people of is this:

A young couple had just gotten married. They bought their first house together, and they were excited. Though, a short time afterwards, the wife got very sick, and when she went to the hospital, doctors found a brain tumor.

They told her she needed a biopsy of she would die. The operation was not optional.

Though, when she told her insurance company, they didn't want to pay on it. They told her she would have to pay out of pocket.

In the end, the amount of money for the operation and the hospital visits was so high, they had to sell their house.

The wife was saved, but right now, the couple is living with their parents.

Sad, huh...?

Hawking...My God. No Country on the Planet would let this guy die, one of the most famous Physists that ever lived. I also found it suspect that he was awarded the Medal of Freedom and supports NHC, go figure.

reply to post by WhatTheory


Because, WhatTheory, I don't trust the insurance companies, who I know have tried to screw me over for money personally.

That's why...

I always enjoy reading the thoughts of our UK ATS friends. Being an anglophile, I like learning about the experiences (positive or negative) of those across the pond.

As to the topic, it seems many of you from the UK agree with Mr. Hawking and are satisfied overall with the NHS. This isn't surprising. As an American, I would love to see a similar system developed here.

Healthcare reform, in addition to saving us money in the long run by eliminating money wasted on unnecessary medical costs every day as well as providing more money for the average citizen by lowering their potential and actual healthcare costs, (which in turn will stimulate the economy) is a an idea based out of compassion and respect for life. With so many Americans with no insurance or (like myself) inadequate insurance, it becomes a moral issue.

I had to visit the emergency room several months ago due an injury I sustained at work. Had it not been strictly work-related, I would have owed an obscene amount of money that the poor insurance I get through work would not have covered. In addition, I found out about this six months after the injury, and fortunately resolved it. But many aren't so lucky, and end up owing the hospital thousands for even minor injuries. And the ER provides nothing in the way of extended care.

All over the world, in the UK and elsewhere, we see better systems. But while we bicker and argue over mythical, nightmarish fantasies about what the eventual healthcare bill would do, people are still getting sick, injured, and dying every day without access to affordable healthcare. It is selfish. I may sound like a hippie, but we are all brothers and sisters and we should care for the plight of other people, whether or not they are connected to us in an obvious way. While I maintain that healthcare reform will ultimately be a boon to the economy, if it comes down to some piffling tax, I'm happy to pay it.

Originally posted by USER
No, I'm sorry but it is NOT the best.

It is not even good....

Yes it is. I already proved you wrong. Did you forget?

Probably best to read your OWN NATION'S constitution and realise how far your government has deviated from it

So using your flawed logic, we should deviate even further by getting government run healthcare? That makes no sense.

Like I said, you will get whatever the OWNERS give you.

Owners? What does that even mean?
You are the one living in a government from cradle to grave type of government.

Originally posted by Mak Manto
Because, WhatTheory, I don't trust the insurance companies, who I know have tried to screw me over for money personally.

That's why...

Yet you trust the government? Even with your "shadow government" avatar?

reply to post by woodwardjnr


You are mistaking the governments actions with it's people. This is where you are confused, government and people are two different entities. Contrary to popular belief, the people have no say in what the government decides to do.

Well, I don't think the entire government is a shadow government.

My avatar represents the organizations within the government that have free will, not the White House.

The certain senators, DOD people who've worked at the Pentagon for half their lives, etc.

Though, we're getting off point.

reply to post by WhatTheory


Just curious, but do also support doing away with Medicaid, Medicare, and I believed you mentioned V.A.?

I would gladly mark a check box on my tax return. Sure, why not?
And you can keep your money, and go buy a happy meal. Everybody wins.

Originally posted by symmetricAvenger
that is just a joke...

How is that a joke?
That is the concept of the Constitution. You did understand I said America was "founded" on these principals and not what is currently going on right?

you are the TPTB's bitch

Huh? What?
I am a bitch for wanting less government and for wanting to get back to the founding principals. Is that what you are saying? You are making no sense especially since you seem to want more government via national healthcare with is aligning yourself with TPTB. You better watch that fuzzy logic of yours.

minimal? are u kidding me? u spend more on ARMS than any other nation PUT TO GETHER?

So what? National defense is important. What's your problem?

LOL # me...

No thanks, I don't want to vomit.
You do realize that cursing is the first sign of losing a argument right?

Originally posted by zerbot565
ok how much do you pay in taxes and what does your "benefits" the goverment gives you back cost them ?

im sorry but that argument your preposing is absurd.

I paid over $40,000 in taxes last year. That is just federal, and doesn't count the state taxes I paid, nor the fines I will receive for refusing to file. I have received nothing in return, because all those taxes went towards was paying the interest on the national debt.

Taxes are my biggest bill easily. My rent is only $27,000 a year, and my child support for 2 kids is only about $24,000 a year - but my company pays their healthcare costs for me.

When someone tells me I can still pay for private schools, healthcare and so forth, what they are forgetting is that I still have to pay for the public stuff.

I've never been turned down in the past when I didn't have healthcare. Not once.

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
Just curious, but do also support doing away with Medicaid, Medicare, and I believed you mentioned V.A.?

Medicaid and Medicare = YES
VA = NO

And you can keep your money

Why thank you great and mighty dictator.

Originally posted by symmetricAvenger
reply to post by WhatTheory

 

Yes, it is. Perhaps not in the UK, but in America it is. We were founded with the concept of minimal government.

that is just a joke...

im sorry but understand something

you are the TPTB's bitch

minimal? are u kidding me? u spend more on ARMS than any other nation PUT TO GETHER did u read that?

and u bitch and whine about health care?
LOL # me...

ur nation is being scammed by insurance companies ,,, Fact

This is filled with lies. You should actually study and research where taxes go and what pays for what.

The military and most of the government are paid for by legal taxes such as corporate taxes, and tariffs on imports/exports and trades.

Nobodies income taxes pay for any services. They all go towards paying interest on the national debt - that is a fact.

The real way things like that are paid for is by inflating the money supply. which hurts poor people more than it helps and is why the poor get poorer.

All anyone suggesting healthcare is really talking about is treating a symptom and ignoring the cause. Why is healthcare, welfare and such needed? Because the overall system robs from the poor and gives it to the rich.

What you are basically advocating is it is ok for someone to come and take $20 from you, as long as they give you $3 back.

No thanks.