'I wouldn't be here if not for the NHS': Stephen Hawking defends UK's 'Orwellian' healthcare a

All of your points have already been proven lies and misrepresentation earlier in the thread. Stop speading propaganda.

Here is the post debunking all your ridiculous statements:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

No. That post does not speak to my sources whatsoever. Honest question: are you lying intentionally because you've been led to believe that the ends justify the means, or are you that confused and unaware of the principles that inform logic and debate? Go read my the source I cited. Look at those statistics, and then provide a source that refutes mine. If you are unwilling or unable to do that then your words above are mere hand-waving, regardless of your motives.

Originally posted by kinda kurious
So let me get this straight.

Sorry KKK, you should have stayed out because as usual you have it all wrong.

WhatTheory is trying to convince USER that he is not allowed to like it.

I am not trying to convince USER of anything. I am only pointing out the differences and why our current system is better which is why we should NOT change to national healthcare.

Data inconclusive and mired in my book.) CATO Institute is neocon think tank.

Please tell me what was inaccurate. If you cannot then it is NOT inconclusive except when faced with your biases.
What about the other 3 links if you have a problem with CATO.

Originally posted by JohnnyElohim
That post does not speak to my sources whatsoever.

It's apparent you did not go to all the links and read the entire articles because your points were easily debunked. Nice try at deflection though.

reply to post by CrowServo


That was a great post my friend Star for you and why?

Because it is about morals... Every person on this planet Should be treated for free well "not free" but you get my point

Ok in the uk we have sometings long times to wait "if its bad bad" but I never need to worry about just calling a number and thinking OMG im going to pay xxxx

the only issue in the uk is TAX.. in the USA they think tax is BAD.. its the 4th july thing..

the point that is intertesting is the system? obama him self is saying it cost on avrage 6,000 more to pay for your health than any other nation??

6k? thats a LOT of money!!

the reason why that is .. you dont work as a team.. We ALL pay tax to make sure if we are sick No mother ... is going to deny me health care..

WE are SLAVES ... get it in you head .. some slaves are better treated than others

wake up because YOU did not PRINT that money you THINK is yours

; )

reply to post by badmedia


Hang on one minute here.. We are talking about the UNITED KINGDOM HEALTH CARE SYSTEM

aka NHS

So please ...

I know what i am talking ABOUT I PAY FOR IT...

Some background....Being born in England and living in the USA ( For 6 years, and I am 43 now ) then I think I can comment. I have worked since being 16 and luckily... touch wood... never had a major health issue, but my family members have had health issues and my wife ( American ) had our child in the UK. All superb care... all on the NHS.

Granted, and I am the first to admit this, if you have a health issue that is not serious ( ingrowing toe nail etc. ) then you have to join the waiting list. If you have a serious condition, then you are taken care of right away. I have family members in the UK that have private health care as a supplement. They are lucky to be able to afford the priviledge of being advanced "up the que". If you can afford it, then you opt for a better level of service... right???

At least with the proposals being made, health care will be available to more people than right now, and we all know how many people are ignoring their health issues in the States?!

My Wife has a reasonable job here and pays health insurance, a good one at that. But we still have to pay a co-pay everytime we visit the doctor and to buy medicine. If you are strapped for cash, it dosent matter if you can afford $30 or not!? You are still making the decision over whether you should visit the Doctor or not. Something in my mind no one should ever make.

This is an alternative... not some wacko idea... and I think the comments concerning Hitler just blows my blood pressure!
A comparison..... I dont even mind spending more in taxes to make this a reality. Locally, I hear that libaries/schools are being shut because a "levy" is not being voted in. How ridiculous! Mere pennies in the big picture.... and I dont mind spending a few more to make "OTHER" peoples lives happier/healthier. It is so sad that nowadays people are so selfish and cant see the wood for the trees.Surely the constitution would mean we looked after everyone???
Libaries shutting down in inner cities???
Schools closing??
Your neighbour falling sick and not being able to afford health care???

Come on.... What kind of society are we truly living in????

[edit on 12-8-2009 by simon_alex0327]

reply to post by badmedia


and be for you blather on about TAX let me remind you MR.. that the fed is not A bank its a GROUP of banks

we are talking about the well being of PEOPLE ? get it?

You are being shafted just like them poof #ers in china who work for less than a dolla a wekk

so please dont pus it.. I know the facts and this is a moral debate .. Your people are being #ed over by insurance companies or "a cartell" of sorts

what is the big deal? that we PAY when they PRINT IT?

do you not see the logic in this?

THEY PRINT THE MONEY SET YOUR WAGE and the value of you eniter life

think u are smart?

i suggest u wake up to the harsh reality that you have master and u are its bitch..

and beening looked after is about profits and not about u being all well and good "if they are stupid"..

10% anual growth in china.. the only reason the USA is still going is CHINA

have a nice day...

I do not mean to be off topic

but china has over 1 BILLION

us has just over 320 million

work it out...

you are in deep #... this is not funny.. and health care does mean alot.

Not jsut for happy go luck bob down road with 2 . 4 kids.. Oh now

You are a commdity lol

you are sold and exhanged on the stock market

Do you know that banks in fact factor in the poplulation grown of a contry to work out anual profits?

how mad is that.. well is was not so mad when some chick on the telly And i qote said

UK PLC

Public listed company if you aint so savy

point is after my long winded bad grammar assult..

You need to demand that you be looked after..

thats why we have revolts? and so on.. WE are the goverment..

NOT THEM BUT US

in many a life one man stud up and said # it all

well we need to stand up "as people" and say # you


you guys need better health care.

reply to post by simon_alex0327


BRAVO simon alex. Human Decency 101. I really don't think people realize what a small amount of money is deducted. It's really...a hamburger and a coke.

I know it adds up, and I'm shocked every April, how can this be? But if we are to have a great country, there is only one way to maintain it... Unfortunately we have to pay for it. But we do, because it's our home and we want it to stay great. Don't we?

As somebody said earlier "the system's screwed". Agreed. But all we can do is continue to try to improve it, find viable solutions, and for now, we need to try to stay united. Now more than ever, but that's another thread.

reply to post by WhatTheory


OK, I'll make this easy for ya. Visit this link:

en.wikipedia.org...

Find your little flag. Then note that England and Canada as well as a vast majority of
European countries have HIGHER life expectancy for both men and women than US.

United Kingdom Rank = 37
European Union Rank = 38
United States Rank = 45

Do you think their "inferior" system plays any role in this?

[edit on 12-8-2009 by kinda kurious]

reply to post by kinda kurious


I think a lot has to do with that.. mostly diets. However, I still would love to know where the constitution allows the FEDERAL government to regulate healthcare...

And I would love to know why its my responcibility to ensure less responsible people have health care and live longer.

I really will never trust a federally run health care system.. and knowing its being abused by the poor and the illegals.. I don't know if I could continue paying into such a system..

Here I am in Australia, with a free medicare system?????
If you are sick you go to your local GP, which is part refunded, as is Specialist, Tests, X-Rays, and even private hospital procedures but at a lesser rate.
You can join Private Hospital Cover, which covers you for a greater percentage of costs, and you get a tax deduction for joining, but not essential.
example - I was out bush walking at Easter, when I fell over and broke my arm just above my wrist, both bones, performed self first aid, husband transported me to nearest public hospital, where I was x-rayed, broken, set in cast and sent on my way in 2 hours, followed up 10 days later to see if all was OK, further x-ray, developed infection under cast, again followed up, cast taken off at 7 weeks, frozen wrist, three visits to physiotheraphy, to help me learn how to re-use wrist.
Same weekend in city broken wrists were waiting up to 10 hours to be treated, I would not have been happy to have been waiting that long.
ALL FREE in public system, I hate to think how much this would have cost me in USA.
Yes PUBLIC system in Australia has its problems, but if LIFE THREATING you are treated FOR FREE immediately, as I well know, from previous experience. ie CANCER, HEART ATTACK, CAR ACCIDENT.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
I still would love to know where the constitution allows the FEDERAL government to regulate healthcare...

While I'd be the first to agree the Constitution is a vital and valuable document which outlines the ideology, and intangible doctrines of our great land, I'd be remiss not to point out that I don't think the Constitution (or any single document for that matter) can fully encompass the entire spectrum of the functions of Government.

That is why there were Amendments. That is why there was a Bill of Rights.

Our founding fathers although noble and just could not have anticipated the advancements in technology, medicine, science or the exponential growth of America.

They could not have envisioned the vital need for the ancillary branches and departments vital to the health, safety and well being of our nation and her citizenry .

The Department of Homeland Security, Department of Defense, Department of Transportation to name a few. We've adapted the core principles and values to modern time.

It seems foolish to consider that our Founding Fathers would want a nation fraught with disease, sickness and infirmity.

Often when people bring the Constitution into the argument, I simply ask if they would like their next surgery performed with what was "State of the Art" in 1776.
(The life expectancy at that time was 50 years of age for males by the way.)






[edit on 13-8-2009 by kinda kurious]

reply to post by ofhumandescent


It's sad people of a certain psychology (not you) think democracy is something you can participate in on a piecemeal basis.

"I'll allow you to take my tax money & give it to the military industrial complex in pursuit of all things that kill. But DO NOT even try to give any to an institution that will help people live a better life, with less suffering, and without bankrupting them and their families."

I guess such thinking(?) is to be expected from a country where more than half of the population believes the story of Noah's Ark actually happened, and that Jesus really did throw the "Moneychangers" out of the temple.

Then again, given those facts, should they not be a lot more unselfish and caring towards their fellow man?

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
The World Health Organisation ranks Britain's healthcare as 18th in the world, while the US is in 37th place.

And the WHO has been shown to be biased, and decide to give better ratings for "ideals" rather than for actual healthcare provided...

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

'I wouldn't be here if not for the NHS': Stephen Hawking defends UK's 'Orwellian' healthcare after attack by U.S. politicians

www.dailymail.co.uk

Professor Stephen Hawking has spoken out in defence of the NHS after high-level U.S. politicians have branded the National Health Service 'evil' and 'Orwellian'.
The British professor, who has suffered from Lou Gehrig's disease for 40 years, insisted that he 'would not be here' were it not for the NHS.

He spoke after an editorial in Investor's Business Daily, a national financial newspaper in the U.S. that also runs articles by columnists on the Left and the Right, launched a misinformed att

(visit the link for the full news article)

steven hawkins is great...the NHS could be better..and theres probably a lot of money wasted..but it is better than having no insurance at all..

this general hatred of all things deemed to be 'social' (by people like alex jones) is a little annoying.

socialism or things like the NHS are not a problem..the problem is who is controlling these things and why...if the people running these things are doing it for the right reasons its the best way to go...if not..its hell..

I mean, all I have to say is watch "Siko"
Its honest...

Half my family lives in the UK. My grandfather had cancer... not anymore... everything was free (relatively since its all taken out in Taxes)... I had an injury and needed stiches on a trip over there... free...
I had vertigo a few weeks ago here and was turned away from the emergency room b/c I didnt have a health insurance or a $250 deposit on me...
Speaks enough for me.

I am all for a National Healthcare System...
Whats going on now in US, with the health care reform is NOT National Healthcare...



EDIT TO ADD:

I've talked to so many people that are against national healthcare because they say thats the reason they work, they shouldn't have to work for other people's health care...
to me, this is highly disturbing...
Firstly, no, you don't work for healthcare, you work for money and food on the table, also, hopefully, because you like your job...

If a human being needs fixing, I think its sick that we would not want to help them...
We aren't giving them a better life situation, just a better life...
People with jobs will still be of a higher class than those without if thats all their concerned with...
I just don't see why you wouldnt want to help out your own species...
maybe thats just me...

[edit on 13-8-2009 by Odessy]

Reply to post by WhatTheory

Your hypocrisy would be hilarious if it wasn't so damaging.

Saying 'I'm not going to help anyone' else is pretty much the definition of selfishness. While those people on here saying 'I'm happy to pay for a national health service even if I never need it' would be the antithesis of a selfish person.

What ever problem you have with the UK's NHS, you can't say it is a selfish system and to do so only serves to show how philosophically corrupt you can be to prove a point.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by symmetricAvenger
reply to post by badmedia

 

Hang on one minute here.. We are talking about the UNITED KINGDOM HEALTH CARE SYSTEM

aka NHS

So please ...

I know what i am talking ABOUT I PAY FOR IT...

Hate to break it to you, but I would be shocked if England was much different than US. As you have central banking and so forth just as the rest of the countries. You still have fractional banking and so forth.

I think it's great that people want to help the poor and make sure they get healthcare. Such is not the issue with me. What I am looking at is - why are they poor to begin with. Why can't they afford basic services and so forth. And that is due to the same reason all across the world.