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Hawaii again declares Obama birth certificate real

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posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by grover
Its all about demonizing Democrats...

AND yes its about race and (implied) religion.

IF Obama was an Irish Catholic and Republican and there was some question as to where he was born they would be screaming bloody murder if anyone on the left dared question it.


Sigh.

I'm a white, Christian, and [disenchanted] Republican but I don't recall making even one post on ATS that is supportive of Bush- just the opposite.

There are many white, Christian, and republican members and citizens who feel the same way.

We can speak against Bush and engage in Bush/Cheney conspiracies to our hearts content but when we are suspicious of Obama as well, suddenly it's just due to race and the fact he's a democrat.

McCain, a white, Christian, republican also had to validate his place of birth. I don't like him either.

Please, I beg all of you, quite resorting to the race and partisan card.




posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by Hazelnut

 

Slinging insults is hardly the way to prove your point or get your thoughts across Grover. What is a "blither loons"?

..............................................................................
[mod edit: removed unnecessary quote of entire previous post]
Quoting - Please review this link

[edit on 28-7-2009 by 12m8keall2c]


Just curious...what would prove his point? Providing facts and links and appealing to logic doesn't seem to work. Clearly disproving and Debunking outright lies doesn't seem to work.



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD


McCain, a white, Christian, republican also had to validate his place of birth. I don't like him either.

Please, I beg all of you, quite resorting to the race and partisan card.


Oh...Could you please provide a link to McCain's original vault birth certificate...not a COLB. I'd like the original mailed to me as well becuase I am sure that any organization that examines it will be some freaky right wing group. Thank you

[edit on 28-7-2009 by maybereal11]



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 03:03 PM
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Reading thru this thread is totally pointless.

There is so much posture and attitude it's like looking at a turtle trying to eat a cherry tomatoe.

www.youtube.com...

Take care.

Regards
Lee




[edit on 28-7-2009 by h3akalee]



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by Wimbly
 


I have no idea what the percentage of Democrats believe 9/11 was a conspiracy, nor do I know where you got your data because you gave no reference.

But, I DO know that approximately more than a third of AMERICANS believe 9/11 was a conspiracy.

That number stands to be a great deal more than your reference to just Democrats, plus it crosses the lines and does demonize 1/2 of the citizens of the country as being the "bad guys" just because they are an opposing political group.

[edit on 28-7-2009 by tyranny22]



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD

Originally posted by grover
Its all about demonizing Democrats...

AND yes its about race and (implied) religion.

IF Obama was an Irish Catholic and Republican and there was some question as to where he was born they would be screaming bloody murder if anyone on the left dared question it.


Sigh.

I'm a white, Christian, and [disenchanted] Republican but I don't recall making even one post on ATS that is supportive of Bush- just the opposite.

There are many white, Christian, and republican members and citizens who feel the same way.

We can speak against Bush and engage in Bush/Cheney conspiracies to our hearts content but when we are suspicious of Obama as well, suddenly it's just due to race and the fact he's a democrat.

McCain, a white, Christian, republican also had to validate his place of birth. I don't like him either.

Please, I beg all of you, quite resorting to the race and partisan card.


There is a big difference between this type of criticizing Obama and the criticisms of Bush CO. Comparing them makes little sense.

This is a propaganda attack on Obama's legitimacy and citizenship and has nothing to do with policy.

It is clearly about race because there is a systematic attempt to try to paint him as an 'immigrant'. In other words, not one of us.

It also has to do with right verse left because the VAST majority of those who are pushing the BC issue are from the right.

Also, there is plenty of evidence that supports Obama's legitimacy yet it is out right dismissed by those who oppose him where as with Bush Co there was a tremendous amount of proof that he was acting nefariously.

Question policy all you want, I support that. I think that it is a vital element in keeping things in check, to the degree we can.

This crap about Obama not being eligible for the presidency is ridiculous and a waste of everyone's time.



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 03:08 PM
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Here is a link which proves that you can be born in another country and still get a Hawaiian ceritificate of live birth.

This is Obama's half sister who was born in Indonesia yet has a Hawaiin certificate of live birth.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Ouch! That must hurt the non-birthers.


Another point:
WTF are "Vital Records"??


These officials said the original hard copy was destroyed 8 years ago so WTH are these "Vital Records" they are verifing.

When this story first broke in 08, the officials mentioned they verified a birth certificate. Now they are saying "Vital Records". Hmm..... something is fishy.

I call BS on the Hawaiian officials.


Oh, and just because a person might have a certificate of live birth from a state does NOT mean they are a natural born citizen as evident by the above link regarding Obama's half sister.



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by Animal
 


Yes, it is about race because there are no white immigrants



Also, there is plenty of evidence that supports Obama's legitimacy yet it is out right dismissed by those who oppose him where as with Bush Co there was a tremendous amount of proof that he was acting nefariously.



What evidence? Please show it to me, and answer my questions earlier in this thread as well.

Thanks!

I will be waiting.



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by Animal
There is a big difference between this type of criticizing Obama and the criticisms of Bush CO. Comparing them makes little sense.

This is a propaganda attack on Obama's legitimacy and citizenship and has nothing to do with policy.


I'm ranting in general here. Time after time criticism of Obama (policy-based or conspiracy-based) comes down to accusations of racism and partisanship. Yes, this particular issue is about the origins of birth.

But check out threads on his policies and proposals and you will see the race and partisan card played constantly. It's tiring.



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 03:16 PM
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All was needed for me to enlist in the military...get my social security card...my driver's license and my passport was the birth certificate in my mother's filing cabinet...no one asked to see a long nothing.

SIMPLY PUT...THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THE BIRTHER MOVEMENT.

There are a bunch of right wing hacks in print, on blogs, on television and radio who are happy to spread all sorts of lies and innuendos backed by questionable proof that Obama is not a natural born citizen and so not qualified to be president hence his presidency is illegitimate.

AND they are doing this for pay...either someone like Richard Mellon Scaife who funded the Arkansas project to dig up all sorts of dirt real and imagined on Clinton is paying them or they get paid to be controversial as on faux news or talk radio or they get paid because their blogs get an increase in traffic...either way they are profiting from it...

Then there are a bunch of disappointed and disgruntled voters who are either all too happy to believe them because they hate Obama and his politics or they are simply gullible.

It is so obvious what is going on...

except to the ones for whatever their reasons want it to be true...

BUT no amount of shouting and storming about Obama's birth certificate being bogus is going to make it true.

[edit on 28-7-2009 by grover]



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by WhatTheory
 


Although there are no definitions of what a 'natural born citizen' is, it would go to say that the person would need to be born a citizen of the United States. Now, the definition depends on how many sour grapes the birther is chewing on.



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 03:21 PM
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That is because their so-called movement isn't about Obama's birth certificate...never was...never will be. Its all about sucking on sour grapes... Its all about delegitimising his presidency... Its all about demonizing Democrats...


That's right, the whole birth issue has become the lighting rod for the defeated neo-cons.

Despite the pure facts, even some within the neo-con groups have disowned their own, on this issue. Just the other day Anne C. & the Huckster were on together being interviewed and they both admitted as much.
Mike made a very good point, both McCain and Hilary looked into this very thoroughly, if it could have been used against Obama it would have been back then.
Seriously people, this is a neo-con dream, that they keep having over and over again every night. But it's just a fantasy.

I thought people came here to deny ignorance?
Not perpetuate it on pure emotion.

www.factcheck.org...

[edit on 28-7-2009 by Blue_Jay33]



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by SpacePunk
Although there are no definitions of what a 'natural born citizen' is, it would go to say that the person would need to be born a citizen of the United States. Now, the definition depends on how many sour grapes the birther is chewing on.

You do realize that there is more to being classified as a natural born citizen than just being born in America right?
Parents must also be citizens.
Please take your high school knowledge elsewhere if you are going to make snarky comments and let the adults talk. Thanks.



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 03:26 PM
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Ya know its gotta be out there if Ann Coulter disavows it.



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 03:27 PM
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What then, will constitute as "proof" of Obama's citzenship?

The answer: A birth certificate that says he was not born in the United States.

In other words, a complete lie and fabrication is the only thing the Birther's will accept as fact. Which then in turn shows what a complete load of BS the Birth Movement really is.

BTW, I did not vote for obama and I do not agree with mcuh of what he has done.



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe

They're irrational because there's overwhelming proof that Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural born citizen.


I I have yet to see this overwhelming proof. Care to show it to us?



www.snopes.com...



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
reply to post by Animal
 


Yes, it is about race because there are no white immigrants



Also, there is plenty of evidence that supports Obama's legitimacy yet it is out right dismissed by those who oppose him where as with Bush Co there was a tremendous amount of proof that he was acting nefariously.



What evidence? Please show it to me, and answer my questions earlier in this thread as well.

Thanks!

I will be waiting.


the bogus intel used to launch the pre-emptive strike against Iraq.

...

I could go on, but it's clear what your position is. You don't want to hear the negatives about your hero I guess.

Bush was scum of the earth.



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 03:48 PM
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Well done thread Grover.


S & F



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by Hazelnut
reply to post by grover
 


I'm not a leftie or rightie. I'm not an independent or liberal. I'm not anything politically speaking. Personally, I just wonder why the issue continues when it would be so simple to end it once and for all. Nobody wants to think that they've been deceived. Perhaps a "movement" has been created to further an alternate agenda, I don't really know, or care.

I just wonder why and who started this devisive, evasive tactic and for what purpose. To my way of thinking (not expecting anyone to follow or understand), why not just dig out that "original"? Why all the controversy? It is ridiculous to continue ignoring the fact that people have serious doubts, whether founded or unjust. What especially surprises me is the venom traded back and forth by lefties and righties. Just doesn't seem right.



Originally posted by Hazelnut

Originally posted by whatukno
It doesn't matter. Birthers won't believe anything anyone says or shows. It's pathological at this point.

It's a pathological hatred for Obama nothing more. It's useless to try and argue with this crowd. Nothing will get through to them. Just let them flail away madly and let them be.



Wrong. Not hatred.

Confusion. Illogical. Deflection. Evasive. Non-responsive.


Hazelnut, I starred both your posts because you want to focus on the real issue and not this left vs right mudslinging contest. This issue has nothing to do with hate or racism but everything to do with seeking the truth.

Like you, I'm not a leftie or rightie. But when you ask reasonable non-biased questions, focusing on facts and evidence, what do you get? You get ad hominem attacks since to focus on the real facts of the case would only emphasize that very few people on Earth actually know what hospital Obama was born in, and none of us know.

What we hear from hospital officials is that it would be illegal for them to confirm or deny birth records without permission of the relevant person.

So all Obama has to do is send the hospital a letter saying it's ok to reveal the records that he was born there?

And what is this latest revelation, that someone has seen records, were they destroyed or weren't they? And why do we still not know what hospital he was born at? Why wasn't that part of the revelation?

Before you accuse me of being some kind of hater, I'm fine with Obama remaining president if he's eligible, it would just be nice if he put half as much effort into answering the questions as he puts into evading answers.

Even if he was born outside the US and he's still eligible for president, that's ok too, just tell us for goodness sake or of course people are going to wonder why nobody seems to know even what hospital he was born at.



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 03:52 PM
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reply to post by grover
 


"Gover" (laughing).....They have eyes but can not see. The blind shall inherit eternal blindness. So be it.




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