This is how they will take our guns.

Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
I have no children. If children should come to my home, my guns would be secured. It the government comes to my home, whatever the reason, my guns will not be secured until they have left, or I am dead.
If an officer comes to my home, and demands ID, I will tell him to go to hell, slam the door in his face, and arm myself.
Gates was correct, as long as he was in his home, to reisist giving ID to the police.
Once he stepped outside his home, and continued to argue with the officer, even though he was warned that he was disturbing the peace, and could be arriested, he was in the wrong. He was fortunate the charges were dropped.

While you have a constitutional right to remain silent, the Supreme Court has held that you do have to identify yourself. You might consider reading binding legal opinions in advance of shooting police officers.

Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada

Supreme Court Upholds Constitutionality of Arrest for Refusal to Identify. In a 5-4 vote, the Supreme Court has narrowly upheld a Nevada law allowing law enforcement to arrest an individual when he refuses to identify himself, and reasonable suspicion--though not probable cause--exists that he has committed a crime. (June 21, 2004)

You don't have to say anything else but you do have to identify yourself.

Now, whether or not you agree with their interpretation of the law, that interpretation is binding. After all, if no one had the power to interpret the constitution with binding authority, how could you ever argue in court that your constitutional rights were violated? Without judicially interpretation and application to the facts, the constitution would be useless.


[edit on 26-7-2009 by andrewh7]

Originally posted by Helious


No, Europe has the illusion of freedom. They are the most "watched" state on the face of the earth. They have no privacy and are afforded no rights by birth.

And you think Europe is alone in this, and Americans have privacy and are afforded rights by birth? Of course you do, that's what you've been taught.


You're taught America is the land of the free, right? As your freedoms die away or were never existant in the first place, you're told you are still more free than a European. It keeps you feeling comftable, safe. It stops you causing trouble.


Keep your head down, you are more free than those damned Europeans......etc.

Originally posted by Helious
America, for at least RIGHT NOW is the only truely free nation on earth because we actually have a piece of beloved paper that gives rights to every human being that is naturaly born on American soil.

A piece of paper, that at the end of the day, is comparable to toilet paper for the regard your government and establishment holds to it. Hello? PATRIOT ACT? Guantanamo Bay? Wake up and realise you are not as free as you think. The most oppressed are those who do not realise it.


Your guns won't stop you being finally enslaved. You have to think the long game here. Why? Because those who will finally want to stamp that boot down on your freedoms have guns too. Bigger guns.


They will fight fire with fire, and then some.


It's alright firing a pistol at a tin can or an furry animal, but firing it at a living, breathing human is something which is something else.


You have the FBI, NSA, CIA, ATF, DHS, and armed Police crawling all over your country, a law onto themselves, and you still dare to hold to the illusion that your nation is free?


Yeah, Europe has different gun laws depending on the nation, but there are ways in Europe of getting guns which are more easier and quicker to have than being beholden to a supermarket or reliant on opening a bank account or being refused because of your appearance.


Money buys.







[edit on 26-7-2009 by Regensturm]

[edit on 26-7-2009 by Regensturm]

Originally posted by canadianmouse

Originally posted by Helious
reply to post by Ghriffin

 

America, for at least RIGHT NOW is the only truely free nation on earth because we actually have a piece of beloved paper that gives rights to every human being that is naturaly born on American soil.

This document as we are taught in school and we grow to love as we mature in this great beautiful nation is something we hold dear to our hearts because it is so much more than a collection of words.

Our constitution is a story of human beings transending TPTB and overcoming tyranny and oppresion. It is a story and an outcome of bloodshed by men and women who loved there familys and there freedom.

I have to disagree that America is the only truly free nation on earth. Just because you have the right to carry arms doesn't make you a free nation. I happen to live in an country that is very free as well.

I personally will never understand why people in the United States love to carry arms so much. Especially with the amount of murders that you do have in the United States. It isn't just the "accidental" deaths but the real murders that makes me leary on owning one. Gun crime is very real. And from the posts I have read a few of you wouldn't be afraid to go out with a blaze of glory and that's why I am glad very few people in my country actually own a gun.

You are both totally wrong. Neither of your nations are free. Nor is my "nation".

Only when you realise that you are slaves within the system and actually do something about it, do you (the individual) become free.

It takes time, effort and a heck of a lot of reading (denying ignorance), but once the penny drops you will realise that you have never been free because you've allowed yourselves to be brainwashed by the system.

For more information have a look here... www.tpuc.org

Originally posted by Helious
reply to post by Ghriffin

 

No, Europe has the illusion of freedom. They are the most "watched" state on the face of the earth. They have no privacy and are afforded no rights by birth.

Europe a state?

My, my, my, how the brainwashed sheep show themselves.

If you really believe that Europe is a state you are a fool sir!

Europe is a geopolitical region with aspirations of being a state. Helpped along by the complicit media and brainwashed sheep.

"It has the constitution of a dictatorship, and the laws of a police state", but the peoples of the region known as Europe still have to accept it, and by en large they haven't and will not.

When the sheeple (are you one?) go quietly into the night, the peoples of this "state" (as you call it) will have most likely died in their millions to preserve their individuality... one wonders if their American counterparts will do the same.

Here in Canada we are further down the path then in the US. Several years ago a MANDATORY registery was put in place, even though Police groups vocally protested it as a waste of money.

Honest people own guns, criminals use them.

Since then the 40 million dollar price tag has ballooned into an undisclosed amount, rumored to be over a billion. At the same time there where several seizures of illegal weapons crossing the US-Canada border that would never be registered before hitting the streets (the registery is still on the books but enforcement has basically ended).

Although the situations in the US are worse than here, there have been several mass shootings; the most notable was in Montreal in 1989. The only result of that event was the rifle used being banned in this country (Strum Ruger Mini 14). In 2006 there was another shooting in Montreal, this time however the shooter used a banned weapon, effectively hamstringing any push for more anti-gun legislation.

The dabate over gun legislation in Canada has currently stalled, although TPTB and various social groups still press for even more stringent regulation, it has been police groups themselves who have most often raised the banner in protest. There is just no getting past the fact that RESPONSIBLE gun owners are not the ones that we hear about in the news.

I do sympathize with the parents, but reality is that EDUCATION and RESPECT for guns will prevent this type of event in most every case.

[edit on 26-7-2009 by [davinci]]

Originally posted by Helious
reply to post by Ghriffin

 

No, Europe has the illusion of freedom. They are the most "watched" state on the face of the earth. They have no privacy and are afforded no rights by birth.

America, for at least RIGHT NOW is the only truely free nation on earth because we actually have a piece of beloved paper that gives rights to every human being that is naturaly born on American soil.

If love that piece of paper so much, you might actually consider reading it. The 5th and 14th Amendment due process and equal protection rights are owed to all people - not merely those born on American soil. This is how the US supreme court has interpreted it. Likewise, the declaration of independence defines inherent human rights, not American rights.

If you truly believed in American ideals, you wouldn't denigrate the Europeans based solely upon the location of their birth. If you honestly believe that Europeans have no rights and no privacy, then you're simply a fool. Most likely, you've never even talked to someone from Europe, let alone lived there for any significant amount of time.

You need to stop watching Glenn Beck's hate speeches, turn off Fox News, and actually talk to people.

Ammo in Dallas, Texas is pretty much sold out. 9mm ammo is gone. Some straglers left for .40 caliber but that is about it.

In my research about 80% of the online stores are sold out. 'Federal' an ammo manufacturer is producing 900,000 rounds a day and can't even keep it in stock.


The only thing I can ask of people is please pray on a daily or nightly basis that the corruption in our government and media will be exposed before it's to late. They're preparing their evil, how can you label someone a terrorist just because they believe in the constitution or a 'god'? That is disgraceful and disgusting.

As of right now the media is doing a great job of bitterly dividing people, if you start listening to the 'liberals' talk --- It sounds like nazi germany. They want people who disagree with them to be shut up, labeled a terrorist or killed. In my opinion 90% of liberals get their news straight from the idiot box without researching it for themselves. For some reason they support congress when they had a 11% approval rating that the media no longer reports. They support a leadership that is constantly lying and tearing the people apart.

Please pray daily for your guardian angels to protect you and help us expose the evil and corruption in the governments.

Originally posted by andrewh7

Originally posted by Helious
reply to post by Ghriffin

 

No, Europe has the illusion of freedom. They are the most "watched" state on the face of the earth. They have no privacy and are afforded no rights by birth.

America, for at least RIGHT NOW is the only truely free nation on earth because we actually have a piece of beloved paper that gives rights to every human being that is naturaly born on American soil.

If love that piece of paper so much, you might actually consider reading it. The 5th and 14th Amendment due process and equal protection rights are owed to all people - not merely those born on American soil. This is how the US supreme court has interpreted it. Likewise, the declaration of independence defines inherent human rights, not American rights.

If you truly believed in American ideals, you wouldn't denigrate the Europeans based solely upon the location of their birth. If you honestly believe that Europeans have no rights and no privacy, then you're simply a fool. Most likely, you've never even talked to someone from Europe, let alone lived there for any significant amount of time.

You need to stop watching Glenn Beck's hate speeches, turn off Fox News, and actually talk to people.

Please tell me how you can say europe is not the biggest police state on the face of this earth? London has one camera for every 14 citizens with a population of 60 million. Do the math, how many camera's is that???? huh

Originally posted by Helious
reply to post by Ghriffin

 

America, for at least RIGHT NOW is the only truely free nation on earth because we actually have a piece of beloved paper that gives rights to every human being that is naturaly born on American soil.

Just noticed that you suggested this...

If you really think a piece of paper gives you rights you have clearly bought into the lie; hook, line and sinker!

No piece of paper ever gives you rights.

Do you think that when people are born a piece of paper is going to dictate to what the should think, do and say?

If pieces of paper dictated my life, I'm sure I would be stuck into a mental hospital and given some nice cosy drugs to make me feel all warm and "loved" inside...

PAPER means nothing. Paper can be burned. If you are free, then be free. You don't need a bit of paper to tell you that you are free.

Damn. I hate it when people just cannot see the obvious staring them in the face!



Edited for clarity

[edit on 26-7-2009 by dampnickers]

reply to post by epete22


London has a population of 60 million? Really? Are you sure?

Last time I was in London (June), there didn't appear to be 60 million people there.

Why are there so many people here on ATS that haven't got a clue about how to do some research, or at least write comments that aren't so inacurate?

Originally posted by epete22
In my opinion 90% of liberals get their news straight from the idiot box without researching it for themselves. For some reason they support congress when they had a 11% approval rating that the media no longer reports.

Very good point epete22. But lets keep in mind that neither democrats nor republicans make policy in Washington.

People need to wake up to the fact that the two-headed monster in DC has a master who is much more evil.

Originally posted by dampnickers

Originally posted by Helious
reply to post by Ghriffin

 

PAPER means nothing. Paper can be burned. If you are free, then be free. You don't need a bit of paper to tell you that you are free.

Damn. I hate it when people just cannot see the obvious staring them in the face!

Please don't confuse rights and laws with the genetic make-up of papyrus. It's the subject matter that's important, not what it's written on.

Originally posted by Ghriffin
Greater Europe is an unarmed state and I would contend they still have freedom. Paranoid thinking is largely to blame for most of the worry regarding this subject.

We do need to defend and honor the constitution but we also must think about other progressing countries that have done different things that are consistantly working to reduce violence among society.

I think that has more to do with the history of Europe, than it does with any gun laws. For the last 2,000 years a decade didn't go by without some army or another in Europe tromp around the contryside and kill off people, from the Romans to Attila to the bickering between Spain/England and then England/France to Napoleon to Bismarck to Kaiser Wilhelm to the Spanish civil war to Hitler. By the end of 1945 practically all of Europe was blown to smithereens and millions of people all over the world had been killed. Everyone knew of, or was related to, at least one person who had been killed in the war, and even now, every time someone digs a foundation for a house they're uncovering unexploded bombs and artillery shells. Europe finally renouncing these rampages and yearning for peace is akin to a former drug dealer going straight after being shot and paralyzed during a drug turf war- sooner or later, there comes a time when people say enough is enough. The different things that other nations have done should be quite obvious- they had their desire for violence literally beaten out of them.

We never had even remotely that type of problem here in the US. Yeah, we had the civil war, but not even in the civil war were millions of civilians rounded up on trains to be sent to camps built specifically to kill them, and I'd like to know of even one event that even comes close to the savagery of Stalingrad. I hate to say this, I really hate to say this, but our desire for violence has *not* been beaten out of us, and I daresay we as a people are liking it even more. Look at our entertainment- OUR movies have at least one gun battle where the bad guy dies some ghastly death. European movies are usually some stupid-azz art film where cheese mold is used as an analogy for man's inhumanity to man. What's the ONE exception which we Americans will watch whenever it comes on TV? Das Boot.

SO, yeah, I'm all for making everyone all so touchy and feely where muderous psychopaths can be turned into Mahatma Ghandis with counselling and intelligent legislation, but until that day comes...and I have my doubts it ever will come...I'm keeping my AR-15 locked and loaded in the bedroom closet, if you don't mind.

reply to post by dampnickers


Word play, the state of control there in, a watched state. Nobody thinks they are an actual state, comon.

reply to post by andrewh7


Ive read it top to bottom more than once bud and I know what it says. And very sorry to tell you that Europe is the most goverment watched and controlled area of earth at the moment when your talking about a free country.

And yeah, people from other countries have rights under the Constitution but umm, try to enforce those over in England, I think not. Don't quote me amendments, word play is not the subject here.

[edit on 26-7-2009 by Helious]

Originally posted by MrMojo1971

Originally posted by dampnickers

Originally posted by Helious
reply to post by Ghriffin

 

PAPER means nothing. Paper can be burned. If you are free, then be free. You don't need a bit of paper to tell you that you are free.

Damn. I hate it when people just cannot see the obvious staring them in the face!

Please don't confuse rights and laws with the genetic make-up of papyrus. It's the subject matter that's important, not what it's written on.

Rights and laws huh? Genetic make up has nothing to do with this my fellow resarcher!

What this does have to do with is this:

We live in a "common law" community (be it Canada, America, UK, Australia, etc). Common law is also known as Natural Law...

In our communities children are born. The odd thing is that they all have an instinctual knowledge of what is right and wrong.

Now, this common law has two basic precepts:
1) do no harm
2) cause no loss.

This applies to what you say and do with other people.

As long as you stick to these principles you can't go wrong.

However, politicians and lawyers have convinced the sheeple (you too it appears) that bits of paper give you rights and freedoms.

If you truly believe you need a bit of paper to tell you that you are free you are nothing more than a slave. Pure and simple.

Do yourself a favour and define a few LEGAL words...

Statute, Act, Law.

For statute, you will find that it is:

"given the force of law with the consent of those governed".... now if you are free, but you need a statute to tell you, and you truly believe this, you are not free, but are locked into the prison in your mind called insecurity.

You'll also find that Statute, Act (of parliament/congress) are also called "contracts"... Contracts between who? You are free, so why do you need a contract? Read and learn, read and learn, read and deny ignorance.

If you don't, that would be sad.

www.tpuc.org gives a lot of information on this stuff and it applies to all common law communities on the planet... including your beloved United States of America.... which by the way is nothing more than a series of lines on a bit of paper.... other than that it's open land that has no boundaries until you reach the sea.

[edit on 26-7-2009 by dampnickers]

reply to post by Helious


If it was word play, then why do it?

Words are used by politicians to confuse, decieve, and obfuscate so that they can convince us we are not free, and take our posessions away from us - including our lives...

Language is the most powerful tool you will ever use, make sure you use it well, or you could find that people read things that you have not actually said.

Originally posted by epete22
Please tell me how you can say europe is not the biggest police state on the face of this earth? London has one camera for every 14 citizens with a population of 60 million. Do the math, how many camera's is that???? huh

What the hell are you on about? About 8 million people live in London. 60 Million?!?!

reply to post by dampnickers


Good post, I agree with alot of what you just said except I think violence is the most universal and powerful laungage that you can use.

Speech is a close second but we have a saying over here that goes "Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades"

reply to post by Helious


Well, if we have gun control for the public, we should have gun control for the government, the police, military, and any other organisation, society or community!

If the public cannot defend themselves then no one should be able to...

It is the most basic reason we should all be armed.

I must stress that I do not like the idea that we should have to carry or even own guns, but the government is not a nice animal and left unchecked we could have a situation akin to Nazi Germany in the 30's and 40's... or worse Soviet Russia, Cambodia, and so on and so on.

I'm sure you'll agree