Man made circles?? Debunk this woven one...

Originally posted by RD47blog
I heard theses Cats went into a field that already had a Crop Circle in it. Then tried to make it look like they did it..

You are relying on equivocation and special pleading to make your case.

Originally posted by RD47blog
If the Crop Circle where man made. Wouldn't all this nonsense stop by. Having the creators simply, re-create a simple Crop Circle in front of a World TV feed.

What do you think the News of the World clip AllisOne posted is?

Originally posted by RD47blog
Just as they have been for centuries. It's foolish to believe, folks that creative.

No, they have not. Show a single example of a crop circle that pre-dates the twentieth century.

Originally posted by RD47blog
What about the three different Crop Circles made the night of 14 July 09.

Different groups. Do you think all art is created by the same artist? Your argument is as ridiculous as claiming all the portraits in an art museum are the work of aliens because it would be impossible for one human artist to paint them all over the centuries.

Originally posted by RD47blog
Why are folks so scared of the "Alien" agenda?

And now an ad hominem wrapped in an appeal to motive fallacy.

So why can the ET's not show us a symbol native to their planet instead of using patterns from Earth?

Draw me a picture of some alien life form not see on earth. Give us a solar system not our own and point us to the constelation so we can point Hubble at it..

Interesting one. I have a woven container done by a local Native that my Wife gave me a couple of weeks ago. It was done with birch bark.

The weave to my eye appears as perfect as anything machine made and the person who made it, makes several by hand per day. The weave is far more complex than this crop circle example.

I just can not fathom that people think a group of talented people could not only do this in a short time, but could do something even far more complex. It is like people have a blockage in their minds that won't let them access the part of their brains that allow critical thinking.

People need to turn off their computers, go out and use your hands and find out just how simplistic these crop circles are compared to things people create every day in their routine work. That crop circle is about as amazing as the desk in front of me which is far more complex and took far longer to build. The cabinet shop that made it did not even have to consult an Alien to build it. They used their minds, tools and what was learned by trial and error by their predecessors in the trade. Through the use of jigs and other simple devices they can do woodwork in a day that used to take weeks.

Is not what people are truly saying is that they are dissatisfied and hope these things are signs the Aliens are coming to save them? Or, that these things are proof that their own paranoia is founded on a real threat?

As far as the creators, it is just good old fashioned fun and games. A game to see how many they can fool. Of course you also factor in those who are trying to find a way to profit from these pranks.

reply to post by RD47blog


As you everyone can see, you have done nothing but engage in a litany of logical fallacies and attempted to derail the conversation, engaging in distraction tactics so you do not have to back up your claims.


[edit on 17-7-2009 by DoomsdayRex]

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


I have not said aliens are making them, i have always stated i dont know who or what is responsible for the ones that are not man made from the ground.
As for your comments about evidence can i ask when the last time you visited one was as this is the only real way of seeing the evidence yourself.
As for bent & elongated nodes occuring through human activity - well i would like to see a roller that can stretch & bend crop without breaking it.

Incidently that doesnt occur in every circle, in fact more often than not they are broken which says human activity to me ( i have visited many ) but its when they do occur that the other anomalous features also occur.

I'm not saying alien, i would lean more towards govt/military involvement.
Im not ruling out an et interest as there is a connection with the balls of light phenomenon as the military are aware.

I wouldnt be suprised if in fact the govt/military were responsible for some of the hoaxes too in an attempt to muddy the field as it were.

maybe the balls of light are investigating what the govt are doing & are in turn drawing attention to themselves.

Ultimately i dont know

reply to post by Extralien


I mentioned in an earlier post that Shakespear wrote about crop circles.
In the play "The Tempest" in the "Ye Goode Elves" swearing:


Ye elves of hills, brooks, standing lakes and groves,
And ye that on the sands with printless foot
Do chase the ebbing Neptune and do fly him
When he comes back; you demi-puppets that
By moonshine do the green sour ringlets make,
Whereof the ewe not bites, and you whose pastime
Is to make midnight mushrooms, that rejoice
To hear the solemn curfew; by whose aid,
Weak masters though ye be, I have bedimm'd
The noontide sun, call'd forth the mutinous winds,
And 'twixt the green sea and the azured vault
Set roaring war: to the dread rattling thunder
Have I given fire and rifted Jove's stout oak
With his own bolt; the strong-based promontory
Have I made shake and by the spurs pluck'd up
The pine and cedar: graves at my command
Have waked their sleepers, oped, and let 'em forth
By my so potent art. But this rough magic
I here abjure, and, when I have required
Some heavenly music, which even now I do,
To work mine end upon their senses that
This airy charm is for, I'll break my staff,
Bury it certain fathoms in the earth,
And deeper than did ever plummet sound
I'll drown my book.

You catch that?
"By moonshine do the green sour ringlets make,
Whereof the ewe not bites."
Crop Circles.

reply to post by RD47blog


I have to applaud you. That has to be the strangest thing anyone has ever said to me on these forums. You've constructed an amazing, jaw dropping non-sequitur. Bravo!

[edit on 17-7-2009 by DoomsdayRex]

Originally posted by Luminaught
You catch that?
"By moonshine do the green sour ringlets make,
Whereof the ewe not bites."
Crop Circles.

Shakespeare is not referring crop circles. The clue is in the term "ringlets" and the next line and you whose pastime Is to make midnight mushrooms. He is referring to fairy-rings.

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


well spotted, except fairy rings and crop circles are apparently one of the same thing, not that i know about fairy rings but googled it.

Originally posted by cropmuncher

well spotted, except fairy rings and crop circles are apparently one of the same thing, not that i know about fairy rings but googled it.

en.wikipedia.org...

Yeah, that looks exactly like a crop circle.

reply to post by vox2442


Like i said i just googled it & it came up.

Prior to the invention of photography, this series of articles seems to generate some confusion between what 'fairy rings-type' crop circles are (flattened circles of grass or grain) and ‘fairy rings-type’ fungus rings are. Various authors don't seem to be able to make the distinction between the two type, although each are described. One letter references a purported paper published by the Royal Society on fairy ring (crop circle) origins which laid out the hypothesis that some particular effect of lightning causes the flattening of the plants.

www.iccra.org...

Fairy rings are, and always have been, a lot more common than today’s
more famous crop circles, but originally their origins were as
mysterious and ascribed to similar causes. Usually, a fairy ring is
visible as a noticeable circle appearing in grass. Some rings are
formed by a luxuriant growth, taller and of a darker green than the
grass at their centre.
Others seem to be the opposite: a patch of poorly-growing grass or
even bare earth in a circular pattern. When both types combine, the
luxuriant growth has an area of bare ground as an inner circle. We
now

groups.google.com...

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


Here are the crop circles you requested from before the 20th century:

Precious few references have been found in early historical records that point to possible crop circles. Probably the most renowned is the "Mowing Devil" case of 1678, in which a farmer's field was said to have been visited by a devilish entity that trampled the crops down in a circle. The event was captured for posterity on a wood engraving, but today's modern cerealogical sceptics dismiss its relevance.

Professor Robert Plot published a book entitled "A Natural History of Staffordshire" in 1686, in which he made passing reference to rings, circles and other shapes found in grassy fields. Much debate has ensued over Plot's observations; detailed as his notes were, some researchers still consider his evidence flimsy at best. They feel it more likely that Plot was describing "fairy rings" caused by common fungi. For many more, the jury is still out.

Despite having been on both sides of the fence in the past, it is nonetheless my belief that any evidence for early crop circles - however vague - must be considered if we are to remain true to the open spirit of cerealogical research.

Which brings me to a book entitled "The Dead Sea Scrolls Uncovered" by Robert Eisenman & Michael Wise (Penguin 1993 ISBN 0 14 02.3250 8). This I= s a dry, academic work, detailing the manuscripts found at Qumran, in the Middle East, during the 1940s and 1950s. While a few were immediately published for all to see, many more were kept secret for over 35 years by researchers jealously guarding their exclusive hold over these documents. But these two open-minded and determined researchers published over 50 documents, including photographs, translations and interpretations of the manuscripts.

According to Eisenman and Wise, many of the manuscripts display strong links with Kabbalistic thought, the esoteric side of the Judaic belief system. The Qumran community was a sect apart: close-knit, secretive and militaristic. It is postulated by some that the biblical Jesus spent some time at Qumran, being taught the role of the expected Messiah to come - the One who would lead their oppressed nation to victory over the Roman occupiers. The Qumran community was preparing for war and future triumph. We can only guess why it was that these manuscripts were secreted in large clay pots in the lonely caves high above the Dead Sea, where they lay undisturbed for almost 2,000 years, but it is assumed that an imminent attack was feared and the priests sought to preserve their heritage.

Link: www.cropcircleconnector.com...

History
The earliest recorded image resembling a crop circle is depicted in a 17th-century English woodcut called the "Mowing-Devil". The image depicts the devil with a scythe mowing (cutting)[10] a circular design in a field of oats. The pamphlet containing the image states that the farmer, disgusted at the wage his mower was demanding for his work, insisted that he would rather have "the devil himself" perform the task. That night, the crop appeared as if it were on fire, then in the morning a circular pattern had mysteriously appeared.
Link: en.wikipedia.org...

The earliest reported case seems to have occurred in 1880 near Surrey, England. However, it was not until the twentieth century that crop circles truly became a popular paranormal phenomena. This may be due to technological innovations, like the airplane and camera, which made documenting these patterns much easier.
Link: www.articlesbase.com...

Originally posted by lpowell0627
Here are the crop circles you requested from before the 20th century

Thanks, Lpowell. But let's take a closer look.

Originally posted by lpowell0627
Much debate has ensued over Plot's observations; detailed as his notes were, some researchers still consider his evidence flimsy at best. They feel it more likely that Plot was describing "fairy rings" caused by common fungi

I think the above passage speaks for itself.

Precious few references have been found in early historical records that point to possible crop circles. Probably the most renowned is the "Mowing Devil" case of 1678, in which a farmer's field was said to have been visited by a devilish entity that trampled the crops down in a circle.

The farmer's field was not "trampled" in to a circle. From the pamphlet:

the inquisitive Farmer no sooner arriv'd at the place where his Oats grew, but to his admiration he found the Crop was cut down ready to his hands

And...

and scorn'd to mow them after the usual manner, he cut them in round circles

Source

As you can see, the text of "The Mowing Devil" makes it clear, along as fact the wood-carving shows the devil with a scythe and the title word "Mowing," means "to cut", that the crop was not trampled but cut down.

There is another point which distinguishes this story from crop circles...

that same night this poor Mower and Farmer parted, his Field of Oats was publickly beheld by several Passengers to be all of a Flame, and so continued for some space

As far as I am aware, no one has observed a field appearing to be awash in flame the night before a crop circle appears.

Originally posted by lpowell0627
The earliest reported case seems to have occurred in 1880 near Surrey, England.

Granted, this could be an example. But the 1880 letter in Nature is not very detailed and the author ascribes the circles as being related to violent weather in the area.

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


The weather thing is called lodging and ive seen it myself, it can look quite symetrical sometimes and could be mistaken for a circles - all be it the most basic of one.

Originally posted by cropmuncher
The weather thing is called lodging and ive seen it myself, it can look quite symmetrical sometimes and could be mistaken for a circles - all be it the most basic of one.

Interesting, cropmuncher. Could you give us some more information about the causes of the phenomenon and some examples?

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


Sure, heres an example... ive seen some examples during my circle hunts that can be quite pattern like although its obvious they are not crop circles, although may be what past farmers have thought was strange goings on.

www1.agric.gov.ab.ca...$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/crop1271

Although im a believer in a genuine phenomenon its important to get all the info out right.

Humans have gone to the moon, weve sent probes into deep space. We have split the atom and harnessed nuclear energy. Right now we are on mars sampling the stones, and your saying that humans cant push down some crops on a field!!! Haha this is so ridiculous, a bunch of high schoolers can do this for a class project. Give me a break.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


Nobody's disputing whether or not people could set out on a mission to design a crop circle.

But that would explain a few a season. In order for them to make them night after night, sometimes two a night miles and miles apart, there would have to be more than one group.

Which is possible, except for the fact that the more people in on something, the better chance of getting caught -- in the process of making them. Which has not happened.

Further, many fields - especially within the last two weeks - have been filmed all night and nothing is seen in the field. (Some report seeing and have pictures of orb-type lights above the field, but I won't go into detail about that).

Then, the next morning, when dawn breaks, a crop circle is present.

There have been more than 50 crop circles in England alone since April. Don't you think that's a bit of overkill for kids with nothing better to do?

Of course, you are also not taking into account UFO sightings, soil anamolies, burned crops, the mathematical knowledge needed to form some of them, the symmetrical perfection of some, ancient writing examples, etc.

There was a 1500 foot long crop circle that appeared in a field the very next day after the farmer that owns the land destroyed the one from the day before. Rather brazen for a couple of kids breaking the law just for the fun of it, no?