They cannot be faked... | Cropdesigns |

reply to post by vox2442

've laid out complex designs in brick before. Mosaics, corporate logos in courtyards and pathways in 5 colour, circles, extensive curves, spiral staircases. They're tedious. They take planning and manpower. That's it. If everyone knows what they have to do, if there's good communication, and everyone knows their role, the job goes quickly.

Ok, and did you do this job in the dark, witout anyone noticing? In one night?

reply to post by Point of No Return


You're referring ( I think) to gps used for navigation.

I am referring to GPS used for precise mapping, where you use not only the satellite system but also a fixed datum point, like a fence post to triangulate a precise point.

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by Point of No Return

 

You're referring ( I think) to gps used for navigation.

I am referring to GPS used for precise mapping, where you use not only the satellite system but also a fixed datum point, like a fence post to triangulate a precise point.

What would you use as a fixed datum point in the middle of a huge rolling field containing nothing but wheat ?

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by Point of No Return

 

You're referring ( I think) to gps used for navigation.

I am referring to GPS used for precise mapping, where you use not only the satellite system but also a fixed datum point, like a fence post to triangulate a precise point.

Still didn't answer this question:

And besides, GPS has only been commercially available since the late 1980s. So how do you explain the ones before that? The really non-complicated ones?

Originally posted by grapesofraft
reply to post by GEORGETHEGREEK

 

Human beings have:
1. Went to the moon.

And it cost billions of dollars and thousands of people were involved with it.

2. Sent probes all over the solar system

Again at the cost of billions, and with thousands involved.

3. Created planes

Which attracted attention in the early days so much so that there is video footage of the Wright brothers (not so much of the fellow attributed to the actual first flight - but still known of) and again, by todays standards costs billions with thousands involved.

4. Create skyskrapers

Costing millions and involving thousands of people, in a very large area that we can see every day.

5. Build the pyramids

Costing millions of lives if you believe the non-alien origins.

6. Created computers

Much like the plane, in it's early inception it was nothing more than a novelty that attracted attention, but once it became something the common person could use, became a multi-million dollar industry, involving thousands of people.

7. Harnessed the power of splitting an atom

Costing billions of dollars and thousands of lives just at Hiroshima alone, events that the entire world still remember to this day.

and on and on and on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You guys probably go to an art museum and think Aliens made half of the artwork. So tell me, why couldnt a group of humans create every one of those crop circles? You guys need to give humans some damn credit.

[edit on 11-7-2009 by grapesofraft]

No, I think that the OP was stating that there are not a small group of people so intent on making people go "OOoh pretty!" that they would involve thousands of people and spend millions of their own dollars on it.

I agree with him.

reply to post by Point of No Return


It was a Rhetoric question.

Re-read it.

But since you asked, I assume once GPS became available, crop circle makers would utilize it along with the traditional methods of plotting something out.

reply to post by Hawkwind.


Your opinion is interesting, but I would like to hear from you, the "how's and why's" of such an undertaking, such as all the crop circles. Let's leave out the information of people walking on boards with ropes and continue on to a more scientific explaination of the more intricate circles. Please, I would love to hear it.

Originally posted by Point of No Return

Ok, and did you do this job in the dark, witout anyone noticing? In one night?

No.

But it doesn't matter.

People here seem to think that because it's night, it's absolutely pitch black. It's not. If there's a full moon and a clear sky, you can easily see enough to see what you're doing. Even on an overcast night, it's never really pitch black.

With a few flashlights, it'd be easily done.

And as far as anyone noticing - who is around to notice? People driving by tend to be looking ahead. If you're really worried about being noticed, turn off the lights.

There is the fact that many of the crop circles plants, be it wheat or whatever, have no "brusing", "breaking", or any other trauma to the stocks. Researchers have reported that the stalks have been altered on an atomic level.

Originally posted by Point of No Return

Still didn't answer this question:

And besides, GPS has only been commercially available since the late 1980s. So how do you explain the ones before that? The really non-complicated ones?

That was kind of a joke.

The crop circles didn't start getting really complex until after the advent of the GPS. As GPS tech got more advanced, so did the crop circles.

Go figure, eh?

Originally posted by afoolbyanyothername
reply to post by vox2442

 

I understand what you're saying but there's a huge difference in scale between creating a small patio or courtyard design and creating a highly complex design covering 100's of square meters.
You also do your work in broad daylight where visibility is not a problem.
I assume that you're not working under inflexible and non-negotiable deadlines. If it rains or you have an onsite problem, then you always have the option of completing it at another more suitable time. Is EVERY job you do no matter how simple or complex HAVE to be completed in say 8 hours or less ? No slippage allowed ?
Are your jobs absolutely perfectly done and with NO errors EVERY single time ?
When you do a job, you can make a mess but are able to clean up after yourself.
Do you have to make yourself unnoticeable when doing the work ?

Crop circles, from my understanding, are completely inflexible constructions that permit NO margin of error, are completely time constrained and must be completed in total darkness and the construction be completely unobserved.

How close are the above crop circle requirements to the way YOU do your work ? In fact, could you EVEN do satisfactory and acceptable work under those limitations ?

I don't do this stuff anymore. Thankfully. It's not fun.

But to answer a few questions:
- the largest contract I worked on was a central courtyard, aprox. 30m x 30m, square, with coincentric circles leading to a central fountain. Leading off at 6 points from the central square were pathways, a minimum of 2m wide, triple bordered, winding around trees and existing gardens. It was not a small project. It took about a week, including surface prep. It was lined out in a few hours, though.

These things are done from architect's drawings. They are surveyed. They aren't eyeballed. a line that's out one degree can tanslate to being a metre out at the other end. or more.

They are priced by the hour and by the brick. A small error comes out of the crew's pocket - and a small error in layout leads to a big error very very quickly.

As far as the timelines - yes, they had to be completed in the agreed upon time. People get very very angry about that, and refuse to pay. They also have to be done perfectly: because again, people do check, and refuse to pay.

I have worked at night, using floodlamps. Could I have laid it all out by moonlight with flashlights? Probably. Night isn't as dark as most people seem to think. Could we have done it unnoticed? Probably not, because tearing up 100 square metres of asphalt tends to attract attention...

Making a line is not rocket science. Making an arc or an angle is not rocket science either. Make the calculation, check it, and check it again after you've marked it. Sight it properly. Lasers are quite helpful with this. Theodolites for the bigger jobs, especially where elevations are a factor. But the old faithful is string and a few bits of wood.

So the circle jerks claim to be the makers.They show "how it's done."If each step taken,by their method,consumes approx. 1 second,as is plain in their vid,it is a matter of simple math to figure out how many seconds/steps would be allowed by the time allotment.Say four hours,to be very generous,X 60 secondsX 60 minutes=14,400 steps.This,again generously,giving prep time and even layout time,only counting the actual stomping.Each 'stomp' flattens under a foot,judging by the vid,but being optimistic and lazy,give 'em a foot per.Makes the math easier.So,a 350' diameter circle has 350X 3.14x2steps,which is,2,198 steps/seconds,for one pass around,which is about a half hour +.That is one pass,not the side step,then actual pass,as their method,which would be two passes.So 1/8 of the time allotment for the first,easiest pass.Yo can see where this is going,as we concede step after step in the process,it is still impossible for a two man team to do it.Agreed?Two cannot do a 350' dia Glyph in the 4 hour time frame?So how many would it take?I am not a math whiz,so someone with more math brains than I can do it really convincingly.One could figure the total coverage in the flattened areas,approximate the number of steps needed,divide by time and tell how many operators would be required.So one would have to specifically state X number of people made this one,not just 'it could be done...'Not Aliens,ANCESTORS

reply to post by GEORGETHEGREEK


hmm we cant know until a video show us who really makes CS...i remember watching a video on youtube from a guy who rec live a CS...

Saying these can't be done by humans is ignorant. There are sites for crying out loud, where you can see humans making them! And there are plenty there that ARE complex. How is that not proof?

Where do you think these "commercial" crop circle making companies got started? They even say, they were doing this for fun, and then realized there was money to be made.

We KNOW humans make many of these. We have NEVER seen one being formed by another means.

And I completely agree, people do not give other humans near enough credit. I remember seeing some youtube videos of 3d chalk drawings on the street. I never realized those were even possible.. human ingenuity has no bounds.

reply to post by trueforger


a circle with a 350' diameter is roughly 96,000 square feet.

--IF-- we accept for the sake of argument that they are compressing exactly 1 square foot of grass per step -

and if we accept 2 men working -

each one must compress 48,000 square feet. Because we've agreed on 1 square foot, that's 48,000 steps.

4 hours gives us 14,400 seconds. - which gives us 3.333 steps per second.

That's a fast pace to keep up for 4 hours.

BUT:

Wheat stands straight up. Like !!!!!!!!. Right? Pressing sideways does this: ////!!!!!! There's a larger area compressed. Wheat that you're not stepping on is being pushed over.

So let's say we've got a 1 foot width, by the three foot length that's being pushed over. Now we've got 16,000 steps to make - or 1 step per 1.1 second - which is a lot more realistic.

If we can add some length to our step (I like the snowshoe idea, frankly) it would be very easy to get 8 square feet per step. That would leave us with 6,000 steps: roughly 1 step every 2.5 seconds. Time to spare, frankly.

Why don't the aliens just make one so huge and intricate that there's no way humans could have made it overnight? Some of those fields their in are pretty huge.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by impaired

 

ok - one question

why would a ` reply ` to a radio transmission be sent as anything BUT a radio trasmission ?????

wel ????????????????????

If they were to send a radio signal as an answer to another signal, they would most likely have to send it to the original communicators. Otherwise, no one else would know what they were trying to say.

With that in mind, maybe "they" know our devious ways and don't trust the recipient to spread the message. Think of how much more coverage the radio signal in the form of a picture made in the field got. MANY people know about it. If they had simply responded via radio to the original communicators, it would have been swept under the rug.

reply to post by vox2442

Ya but watch the video again,they are no way covering that much per step,not even close.Two men is one stomping and the other holding the string as per the vid.They talk about stakes and show 'em even,but they must be holding both ends to ensure a taught line and the amazing accuracy exhibited.My orig calculation missed it by half as I computed only 1 radiusWe need an actual geek to do a simulation,including all the extra steps involved with the turns as shown in the vid,for the sake of argument.And those guys were huffing pretty good when in the middle,hard to imagine them keeping up that pace the whole way.Plus the dizziness factor y'all seem to be missing.(because you ain't been in a similar situation as have I,harvesting hay bales).That is just ONE tiny factor,the sheer time one.And those rickety old planks they claim to have used for all of them.THAT is Plank's Prank.

I am unable to say for fact that they all have been made by humans but what I can speak to without question is that humans most certainly have been capable of creating every crop circle ever seen in the history of the Earth.

Do not understimate the human mind, while often times our behavior can seem barbaric and simple, our minds are truely a beautiful thing that are far reaching and profound.