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This is just amazing, Guy can boil water with his own energy

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posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by Mike_A
There are a number of things wrong with this; firstly if it can be observed then all the arguments so far stand, i.e. it is perfectly legitimate to want those claiming such abilities to submit to scientific observation before we buy into it.


Fair enough. But it is irrelevant if the guy in the video is a fake or not. Test him all you want you arent going to find any great truth in the universe you are going to find out what you are examining, is this guy a fraud or not. It doesant matter it just diverts us from basic reasoning.


Originally posted by Mike_A Secondly, why are cameras so deadly but other distractions are fine? Your explanations are just as devoid of evidence as the base claim, thus just as questionable.


Not all other distractions are fine, anything that manipulates the subtle energy forces or breaks the monks concentration is potentially dangerous. The claims being made are only devoid of evidence in your perspective. I class common sense and logic to be more important than biased empirical science. That is why I believe in qi.


Originally posted by Mike_AI refer you back to what I said earlier; if a medium tells you that what he is doing is real and you have no other explanation do you simply take his word for it?
Also, what peer reviewed paper has detailed any hypothesis that would allow for a monk to run at 50mph but then die when a camera is pointed at him?


No I would weigh up what I know to be possible and the situation at hand and I would take an educated guess.
The reviewed paper is the nature of reality and the peers are the wise men of the ages.

l

Originally posted by Mike_Aol you can’t ask me a question then tell me I’m not allowed to give you a particular answers. Poke holes in my answer all you like but you can’t dismiss it before I’ve even given it!


Fair enough, I said it to save time but please then, answer the question as you see fit.


Originally posted by Mike_ASince I can’t give you the most logical answer I’ll point out that, if I’m not forgetting anyone, all cultures wholeheartedly believed that we were the centre of the universe but this has now been proven to be completely incorrect.


Not all cultures believed that in fact most that had a refined view on the life force also had excellent knowledge of the star systems and form of the planets amongst many other advanced information. Furthermore it may transpire that Earth literally is the center of the Universe, modern science has no way of verifying if this is the case or not.


Originally posted by Mike_AWhy should any ancient consensus be beyond reproach purely by virtue of age?


Where is this the case?



Originally posted by Mike_AThere wasn’t in my claim about summoning angles, that in itself proves this statement wrong.


But you see there is. Millions of people see angelic beings, thousands of people have literally exploded from pure qi energy (spontanious combustion). All supernatural things that are true on Earth all spring from the same source, the astral/alternate dimensions, all are interconnected, UFOs to angels to timeslips to mythical creatures. A skeptic cannot understand this because by the nature of their mindset they slow the process of comprehending the massive amount of information to take in during our lives.

If I point at the moon are you going to look at my finger?




posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 05:53 PM
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awesome. its almost magical



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by elgregro
awesome. its almost magical


It would seem magic is simply the manipulation of these forces through intent or use of rituals and understanding of the laws of nature ( such as sacred geometry and numerology ).



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 06:02 PM
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I hate to break it to the believers but this is a chemical reaction. I stayed in a small village where the father would do this for their kids. The kids love it and think their fathers have magical powers. I'm surprised this is even considered as real, it's a common 'trick' in some parts of the world. Don't be so eager to believe everything folks.



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 06:53 PM
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On the subject of angels...they do not have actual wings with feathers like a bird....that is silly.

In the astral or in altered states in our reality our qi and other subtle energy fields are visable. The same reason we see halos on angels and saints, light auras around depictions of taoist immortals, buddah and others or fire surrounding Indian deities.

www.vortexmaps.com...

This sort of field looks like looks like wings and robes and an aura aroung the 7th chakra when it is visable as light.

Heres a way to experiment with qi, change the nutrional content and flavour of food or drink with qi.

Make a qi ball. You can see many ways on youtube etc, the best way however is to put your arms out comfortably in front of you palms facing each other, envision a large golden sphere of metal in your hands. It is wet and slippery and you need all your strength and effort to hold it without falling. However you cannot contract your muscles or have any kind of tension in them ( tension causes blockage of qi ), but imagine if you will you are trying with all your might to hold the golden sphere. The sphere slowly starts to become smaller and you move your palms towards each other, it is like dark matter, a ball of energy being compressed into a tiny point of light. Slowly rotate your hands slowly and notice if you feel any noticable tingle or change in temperature etc... Its best not to do it in a place that has a breeze or anything that will change temperature. Practice a few times until you start to notice something that really grabs your attention. Do not do it when ill or stressed or tired.

Once you have the hang of this take a bottle of water or some familiar drink or food with a high water content like fruit. Put the stuff in the middle of your qi ball and imagine when the ball is being compressed it is fusing with the object and use all your intent like you are praying for light love and good things into the object. Try the water and then a test bottle that has not been involved and see if you notice a differance.

Try it over a month and see if you notice any health benefits.

Why does it work like this? Basically qi flows better through well organised crystaline structures and molecules, this is why the PTB care so much about their pyramids and buildings built by sacred geometry and indeed why pyramids appear to sharpen razors and attune meditation.
Water and its structure is the best example of this. Hear about the Japanese scientist who played music to freezing water overnight? Recordings that used words like love repeatedly created very beautiful forms where insults and harsh phrases created unstable structures.
Human memory seems to be held in water and indeed science is now catching up to the idea that water can hold memory, the human body cannot function without water because no water means no structure for the qi to flow through.
By the concept of qi, stagnant water becomes unpure, flowing water is pure. This is why the Muslims wash their arms in ritual, the water flowing over a human picks up bad qi (or no qi) and dissapates it and helps transport good qi properly. Cleanliness is godlyness, any wizard will tell you cleaning your altar is important because it is relative to energy flow.



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 07:28 PM
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reply to post by Mike_A
 


I must give you credit Mike_A! You fight with the same passion and conviction, of those of the faith of the Lord! Jesus Christ!
You make a very clear point of what science is at its base roots.
And I even gave you stars on many of your posts, as you do have that spirit to drive it home. You put alot of FAITH into science.

God Bless you.



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 07:37 PM
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First of all. Street fighting. cute.

I've been in plenty of street fights. I generally win them. except when this one huge mexican dude jumped me with a bunch of his friends. this guy was massive. about 6-4/6-6 and built. he pile drove me onto my left eye socket on the side walk. knocked me out cold and gave me 14 stitches in my left eye socket. 7 external-7 internal. fractured my orbital ridge and cracked my zygomatic arch. dislodged my retina and made me blind for a month in that eye. the same eye was also swollen shut for over two weeks. My only loss. Other than that I have plenty of experience street fighting. and frequently get into friendly fist fights with some of my military friends after a few drinks. beieve me I am no stranger to street fighting. have lots of experience doing it. lots.

Problem though. most chi gong masters who get into street fights are also HArd chi gong masters. now if a baseball bat to the guys body (just about any part you want to hit) don't have a chance in hurting him neither is some poorly executed sucker punch by some street dork. Also, the chi master breaks steel bars on his head, it's no magic trick and the bars are not fake or pre scored. So good luck actually hurting a chi gong master.

Take this to heart. the average pro. boxer punches with about 400-600 pounds of force. mohammed ali once registered 1000 pounds of force on a punch and he is NOT a big guy. but the strongest punch ever recorded came from 120 pound 55 year old okinawan man. his punch landed at nearly 2000 pounds of force. twice what a pro boxer can even issue let alone handle.

But kung fu is NOT the crap you see in the movies. yeah jacki chan-not real kung fu. jet li-sorry thats wushu or chinese acrobatics. bruce lee-his stye wing chung was invented by a girl for a girl. it's hard to learn real kung fu in the states. aren't any real teachers except maybe handful in the major cities. and I can name who they are. Real kung fu as taught by the shaolin monks has been around for 1500 years. it's been around because it works. It's no surprise that it's hard to see the applications when they are demonstrated. But when the applications are known it's pretty brutal. You do know that Brazilian jujitsu and judo and that MMA crap is diluted shaolin chin na. Akido, hopkido again northern chinese chin na. But chin na is not to wrestle with some other dude on the ground trying to get a submission hold on them. it's break their body move as fast as you can to the next guy. you see. the art of shaolin was developed in real life and death situations where there were no rules. and you were usually outmanned. real kung fu is very dirty. It's the mother of dirty fighting. krav maga-literally a rip off of silat/escrima/ and wing chun. danny inosanto should be pissed some dudes ripped off his art and started calling it krav maga. guess where all those martial arts came from. southern shaolin kung fu. Know why you don't want to be doing brazilian juijitsu in a real fight. takes too long. you too are on the ground. and while you are being some bad ass wrestling some other guy to the ground his other buddy is kicking your damned face in and turning whats left of your defecated in pants into a bloody wet spot on the ground. MMA is just not realistic. PS when you have some one else in a lock you too are immobilized+stupid.

Laugh all you want at the kung fu. it looks flowery, but learn the applications. for instance the third movement in Lou Han Shi Ba Shou (18 buddha palm movements) is an arm bar. break arm using three points of leverage (which any wrestler or BJJ guy will tell you is about as locked up as you can get) snaps the leg next putting all 180 pounds of your body weight on their now snapped knee (to match their snapped arm) from there the next movement can either be used as a throw or a take down where the guy is not only maimed and crippled for life and supinated on the ground getting the back of his skull hammered till fluid comes out of the ears. three simple, simple moves executed in less than 2 seconds. and all the bad guy has to do is screw up and try and punch at you.

Go look at xiao hong quan on you tube. the first move is block and a punch. the next move is an arm bar/lock and break. they next move is a punch to the face shoving their now broken body away from you so that you can now kick his friends ass. Xiao hong was a system taught to elite imperial gaurds. cause it works. it may look stupid, but it's really hard to defend against, and will absolutely maim the opponent. I could go on to explain what every move in the form does and it's applications. but basically all kung fu is vicious. may not look like it but it is. It's lasted 1500 years in real battle not fake ones in some octogon. can't use it for sport cause everything is basically a arm break or nerve strike. it's designed to kill. the movies about the nice kung fu master who never harms n opponant is BS. the kung fu master only knows what he's taught and what he is taught is to break the human body methodically.

but don't take my word for it. my shifu has taught the LAPD and sheriffs dept in special clinics. they believe what he teaches will jack you up. He also taught the south korean special forces hand to hand combat. ask any navy SEAL and they will tell you that SK SF are seriously hard core bad asses who know a lot about killing. How come every time I spar my recon marine buddies they loose...badly... and ask me how I did that. How come when a Navy SEAL wanted to teach me close quarters combat he was surprised to find out that through kung fu I already knew most of what he was going to teach me.

Yes it's hard to fathom that chi gong is real. but what more can I say other than go meet a person who actually knows it and witness it for your self. As for why they don't impirically test it in a lab. might be cause the people who know it works for them don't really care if you believe or not they just care that it's helping them. there are lots of things in life like that. Also, it's not tested in labs cause it isn't that big a deal, it's not something that can be turned easily into a weapon for some military. and is a mild curiosity to most scientists. they aren't going to get any grants or money documenting it's existance so they aren't going to do any testing for free, just cause.



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 11:18 PM
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The skeptic in me, says there is some kind of chemical reaction causing the rise in heat, and a placebo effect in patients who feel cured.

I would like to see the materials prepared by somebody credible, and the "healer" not place his hands on any of the items.

Magic or the appearance of magic is often a trick of the perception, and the believer is open minded to the point they become naive.



posted on Jul, 11 2009 @ 12:08 AM
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reply to post by BASSPLYR
 

Hay Bassplyr!
I play a fender and richenbacker myself!
You might as well give up convincing the skeptics.
They are no doubt the ones who wake up the next
day saying, 'whatappened"?
I feel like a train run me over!
No, nothing freaky here, go back to sleep peeps...
It all fake.

We dont believe in air either! I cant see it so wtf?

Then can go watch something else, peeps!

Let the bodies hit the floor.
What they dont know(or dont beleive)
will probably hurt them anyway!
Can you blame them bassplayer dude?
It much easier to just deny it all than actually try it.
That may cost some money and we need it for video games anyway.

Takes a tremendous amount of work besides and we are allergic
to work!

With that negative attitude, it will never work anyway!

Why do they feel its so important to not believe?
They are not worthy of it anyway.
The respect isnt there and never will be.
Not in a "me" type of cynical "modern" society.
This is as good as it will never get for some. Sad but true.




[edit on 11-7-2009 by dodadoom]



posted on Jul, 11 2009 @ 01:23 AM
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I feel ya,

Point taken. Your right.

as for me I'm a MTD guy. had a few nice 6 strings made up for me. ALso, play a stingray 5 for the rock gigs and a Fender Jazz. Good to see other bassplyr's here at ATS.



posted on Jul, 11 2009 @ 08:25 AM
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There IS no such thing as no touch KO's. Unless the guy getting KTFO is in on it. OR there is hypnotism involved. Or the "I want to Believe" syndrome, this one is huge.

Watch the exposed video again. The Quigon master treis like Heck to manipulate a REPORTER without touching him, but getting extremely close.

Watch the Quigon Master who was spinning his student like a puppet on a string, get his butt kicked, by a NON student, and a semi decent Striker. I mean the old man nearly died in a heap, I was truely worried for his safety.

If you don't believe in this it won't work on you, same as hypnosis.

Funny Excuses, as to why the frail 45 year old reporter was not affected.

-He could have his tongue in his mouth in a certain postion.

-Switching pressure with toes.

Gimme a break. Live in your fantasy land.

I'll take Bruce Lee, or Fedor Emelienenko over ANY of these Shaolin Monks, Quigon Masters, when it comes to 1 vs 1 combat.

The heat, I'll believe, because friction is proven scientifically. so is force generated by a 1 inch punch.

However, the ONLY way I see a No Touch KO working is to be able to move your hand so fast and stop it right before the persons ears, maybe faste enough to create a Sonic Boom thus knocking them off balance.

But c'mon, Watch the video I posted on page 11. Look as the Master makes his student look like a puppet on invisible strings. It's not even realistic lookly at All, it's embarrassing to watch (for me). I mean they could have at least choegraphed it better.

Since the Topic title is Misleading (he never actually boils water or even attempts to), and is never done, and MY video proves these chi blows to be a hoax, I submit the mods to move this to skunk Works.



posted on Jul, 11 2009 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by Mike_A
reply to post by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
 



That is my point, I do believe in everything, or rather I believe in the possibility of everything.


That’s still not what I’m asking. If you believe something is real without evidence why not believe everything is real.

It’s not about accepting the possibility, I accept the possibility of Chi but I don’t accept that it is real.


I have evidence, in which I stated, I have never said I believe without evidence, I only think it futile looking for proof, definitive proof. I accept that there are any frauds out there, especially with respect to 'Chi gong' powers and other such, I even know how shoalin monks do some of their tricks, splitting the melon on the stomach with a sword without cutting themselves, smashing bricks in half with a palm thrust. I know how they do it, so I could do it.

BUT, I also have as much evidence to suggest that there is something more to 'Chi'. I have stated about my belief in the electric universe etc, therefore humans exhibiting some of these talents isn't a great surprise, if anything, it is expected. Everything exhibits a charge and an EM field, it is merely the ability to influence this field, create an imbalance to trigger the desired effect.

Someone on this thread has already stated that Qi Gong teaches to draw negative energy from the ground (Yin) and positive energy from the air around you (Yang) and store them in your body. The EU theory of the earth, is that the Earth is Negatively charged and the Ionosphere is positively charged. These coincide, both are questionable of course, what isn't?

But to me it makes sense.

You await more evidence, that' fair enough.

But the people that keep disregarding it outright will never learn anything about it, they will always just assume.

EMM



posted on Jul, 11 2009 @ 12:43 PM
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actually there is no such thing as a chi gong no touch KO. you still need to hit somebody. As I said it's very difficult to project chi in destructive ways. You can just not in blunt for destruction like a KO would require. The con man in the human stun gun video is a faker. Chi Gong has a lot of this sort of BS going on. But real chi gong isn't like what you see in the videos. It's subtle. Intrinsic.

Now bruce lee. Read up on him. yes he was refining as best he could the more antiquated techniques of ancient kung fu to make them more applicable in the modern world. but Jeet Kun do as he envisioned it is NOT the same Jeet kune Do that is around today. Bruce lee's JKD was 90% Shaolin Wing Chung 10 percent his adaptations. what one sees now is more philipino close quarters combat. bruce's friend danny inosanto took bruces philosophy and applied it to what he knew, which was silat.

Wing Chung. Bruce lee's martial art was created by a shaolin priestess named Ng Mui. Ng Mui was on the lamb after escaping an emperial sacking of the southern Shaolin temple in Fukian. She was travelling through a village when she came across a young woman who was in love with a local pheasant boy. but the local crime boss had eyes for her too. he wanted to marry her, she just wanted to live in peace with her farm boy. Ng Mui decided to help her, conspirering with the girls father to trick the local crime boss into a contest. the daughter vs the crime boss. if he could defeat her she would take his hand in marriage. The one stipulation was that it was to take place in a year, stating that the father lead the crime boss into believing that she was not suitable to be a wife yet let him refine her for a year. the crime boss agreed. figuring out that he could easily win the contest and then she would be obliged to marry him.

So this girl shows up on her first secret lesson with the shaolin priestess Ng Mui. Ng Mui goes. holy crap you have no talent at fighting whatsoever. Uhhh alright let me reduce the shaolin combat arts into a very SIMPLE system so that you can be ready in time. SHe trained and trained and when the time came easily beat the crap out of the crime boss. got to live in relative peace (im sure there were consequences for beating a crime boss up) with her farm boy boyfriend and live happily ever after. the girls name was blessed springtime or joyous spring-wing chung in chinese. Ng Mui had named the style after her student wing chung.

Wing Chung is basically a branch of southern shaolin mantis (tanglang) It's designed to be used up close. it's linear, no real circular movements. all strikes are directed to the bodies centerline. it's compact and well designed for short people. Chi GOng isn't really too much of a factor in Wing CHung. it's incorporated but not nearly as much as the northern Shaolin or Wudang styles which focus a little more on chi cultivation.

Bruce lee developed his intense power from his OWN WORDS from his chi gong study. Said it was hard for others to understand it.

Funny when bruce was a young kid he was hyperactive and unruly. loved to fight. by 13 or so he was running his own anti british street gang. off course these street gangs would also fight with their neighbors down the street too. most other friends of bruce when he was young said that at first bruce would start all the fights and pretty much get his feathers singed everytime. he was a crappy fighter. would always come home with a black eye. He was also terrified of swimming and couldn't. After getting his ass kicked by the Coy Li Fut (another southern shaolin derivative) students and their rival gang down the street he went and begged the local wing chung master to teach him after he saw this masters student never lost a fight. The master eventually taught bruce. but the road for bruce to learn kung fu was hard. he was rejected by the other students because bruce isn't 100% chinese. believe it or not on his mothers side he had some german in him-look it up its true. Later when bruce got better at wing chung he went and learned a little of the shaolin 5 animal style and incorporated tiger & crane (hung Gar) along with some leopard into his curriculum.

So bruce lee's own admission was that his power came from chi gong.

He also said something very true. THere are chi gong wannabees everywhere. chi gong requires fitness. if a guy is proclaiming to be a chi master and he's fat-don't believe him. there are no fat chi masters. from my experience this is true.



posted on Jul, 11 2009 @ 02:22 PM
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the taoists share very similar beliefs regarding Yin and Yang as you do electric universe.

They even keep their hair long because they think that it acts like a antenna and storage device for the chi.

now I don't know about the science behind it but go look up a taoist wudang master on you tube. just type in wudang long hua (wudang culture dragon) tell me this guy can't out jump, out manuever and out hit most people. tell me he isn't on to something regarding energy mastery, be it external or internal energy. This guy chen shixing has a couple of videos on youtube, and he is bad ass.

Go look up Shi De Chang on you tube. he is a shaolin monk who is more than happy to demonstrate on other pepole how the techniques work. search "xiao hong quan applications shi de chang" a video where he is taking questions from his students and demonstrating the forms martial applications. looks like he could jack someone up. in fact if you notice in the video he is even pretty cocky about the techniques. attack me "don't care with what arm or leg he says a few times, and he always has a counter that is subtle, genius and powerful.

Kung fu is like poetry compared to basic english. most people only talk normaly, but to learn how to do something seemingly unatural like talking in prose or poetically is cumbersom and hard at first but once you get it down, not only do you say more with less it's more articulate and effective too. same thing with kung fu vs MMa. it's not some elemental fighting it's a highly refined articulate and very accurate efficient way to fight.

Guess I'm kicking a dead horse here.



posted on Jul, 11 2009 @ 04:39 PM
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I have to interject here. People rubbishing Shaolin and Tai-Chi are lacking a lot of information.

If we take the fall of the Shoalin temple mythos and put it at its most conservative estimate the remaining abots ( around 17) killed something like 300 whilst retreating. In legend and perhaps history the survivors went on to Wudan mountain and formed the Taoist religion, refined the I Ching and numerology and philosophy.

You ever see one of the Gracies being an amazing martial artist and an exemplary human being and a philosopher and a humanitarian and spiritualist? A warrior monk? Or do you see them making a whole lot of money from a far detached version of Jiu-Jitsu which is as mentioned by others, derived from religious Kung Fu.

On the subject of those who dont think Tai-Chi or Qi-kung increase your fighting abilities this is a misconception.
Lets put it in perspectve, it takes at least ten years of good practice to be able to use the art in a street fight style situation, Muay-Thai would take one or two.
Allow me to tell you how this apparent disadvantage to Tai-Chi is not actually a disadvantage.

If it matters to anyone I have been a martial artist for about fifteen years and yes the obligatory street fights and attempted muggings blah blah blah.

Here is why Tai-Chi as self defence makes sense.

In our lives we will maybe get into 3 or 4 fights in our entire lives. If there are more than that you live in a dangerous area (move out when possible) or seek out trouble or you are one of thoseunfortunate people that seem to "attract" trouble.

Nearly every style of 'hard' martial arts, if you are doing it properly will useually end up in a lot of injuries week in week out, and if you manage to reach all age and stop training you will have a number of chronic problems with your health.

With Tai-Chi you train slowly, this is what effects the fast twitch fibres which are most important for muscle speed and control. This is how old, small or naturally weak people are able to be massivley strong with Tai-Chi training.
Furthermore as you get older your muscles get longer, they dont get bigger or repair and grow quickly enough with hard training yet the fast twitch fibres can still be made stronger.
Also this method builds muscle memory of a high quality, you can pull off these moves in an instinctual way regardless of external stimulus or situation.
So with Tai-Chi you get to become proficient in self defense while avoiding injury and excessive energy loss needed in hard martial arts. You also get forms that put your body musculature in line, regulate hormone and circadian rythms, feel very happy and relaxed, feel full of energy, help in the function of the lymphatic system. Regulate appetite.
Also if you believe in it and practice qi kung along with tai-chi you get to increase medatative abililty and concentration, understand the subtle energy forces, and literally have "god" powered martial arts ability.
Thus these practices will do what they are designed for. Muay Thai was designed for straight up life or death battles (they had war elephants, thats how gnarly the battles got). It could help train a peasant farmer into a proficient warrior in a very short time.

Tai-Chi was a martial art not made to win battles but to win at the battle of life. It is a living embodiment of the dualistic principles of Ying and Yang and how transcendance of this is finding balance, the zero point of everything.

I feel reasonable here to help explain why Tai-Chi was first known as Grand Ultimate Fist and how it transcends combat and is a martial art in the true sense of the word.
The legends are far more interesting than this account, but in the interest of probabilty an Indian monk Bodhidharma (most likely Tamil or Iranian royalty) travelled Asia spreading the word of Buddah and seeking further experiences and enlightenment. Upon reaching the emporer Liang, a disagreement ensued and Bodhidharma moved to the area of the Shaolin temple and meditated in a cave for a very long time. Impressed by the traveller the Shaolin monks asked him for advice. He wrote for them 'The Classic of Muscle Control', calesthetic exercises that would help make the long periods of sitting or ardous rituals more comfortable. Being royalty he was also probably trained in Kalhari and his disciples were proficient in battle martial arts.
Over time the practice of martial arts and meditation mixed at the monestary became very refined until they had were considered one of the best fighting forces in China.
Years later (as politics and martial arts aswell as religion are always linked especially in Asia's history) they had affiliations and fought for governments, until they were sacked and almost completely destroyed.
They were dissapated and travelled or became hermits to perfect their knowledge.
Hard/external martial arts are ones that use pure physical exertion and power to strike or wrench the opponent to damage them. Soft/internal martial arts divert or make use of the opponents energy to confound them and damage them. Traditionally hard kung fu is considered Shoalin and and soft Taijijuan is from the Wudan area. I would say that they are both from the same source.
We can see this because they were all actually taught at the Shaolin Temple. Firstly the young monks needed to be tired out, they have a lot of pure qi when young and to meditate they need to be balanced. When they are very good at external kung-fu they may then be taught Ba-Ghua. This is like a half external half internal martial art. It helps the student recognise qi and start to move it around the body. It steps down the intensity of training in tune with the ages of man. When middle aged the monk may have started to practice Tai-Chi, which is not like hard kung fu or internal bagua it is an art that transcends negative and posative energies, thus contolling them. Every move is in essence looking to redress the balance.

In combat Tai-Chi obvoiusly is not slow. I have to say its not like any other martial art, you have to feel it to get a picture of how subtle yet powerful it is.




posted on Jul, 11 2009 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by BASSPLYR
Bruce lee developed his intense power from his OWN WORDS from his chi gong study. Said it was hard for others to understand it.


Indeed, some close friends of Bruce have put forward that "he thought that kind of stuff was something of a head trip".
Perhaps he did SAY that, but that was clearly not what he truly believed.
What do we have in evidence of this?
Well for one Bruce Lee still followed the Chinese religious traditions (read qi) quite closely.
Remember earlier in the thread when I said to MikeA that cameras could kill a monk trying to concentrate and likened it to mirrors?
Well Bruce lee had a gigantic mirror built upon his LA mansion.
A day before he dies it is blown clean off his roof and smashed (same concept as 7 years bad lucK).
The mirrors are used to dissapate bad qi and malevolant forces, they have a strange effect on light and therefore the time space of the area they are in.

What else? Bruce Lee was a hero to many including people like me who werent even alive until way after he died. He changed the perception of asians in the West from buck toothed "me so sally" racism to one of an uneasy respect. He inspired many people to get into martial arts and asian culture. He was an electrifying show man and a top class athlete. His philosophies were great and showed that he was a deep character and generally sought to better himself in any way he could.

However he wasnt the best martial artist ever and he wasnt very enlightened in my opinion.
Because unlike the accomplished Shaolin monk he was assailed by psychological demons. He had no control over his qi energy and was all fire. He womanised while he had a family and basically had an ego that was out of control.

His whole efforts in life were devoted to service of his ego. He couldant take failure or being beaten, he promised never to be beaten again. All the greatest prizefighter have this. They use their willpower to force their intent upon reality, they repeat over and over that they are the best, they dont consider failure as a possibility never mind an option.

This ego is indicative of major qi imbalance. They are all male Yang energy,they must accomplish and conquer, they are never wrong and they will enforce their will upon the world, they will throw a hugh tantrum when they dont get what they want. Like a flame they go up and catch everyones attention but then they die out quickly.
Lee would never stop training and his energy was boundless beyond belief. While sitting down he would be smashing his hands together, conditioning his knuckles.
His qi was imbalanced and he burned out, endocrine burnout, qi burnout.
You will see male people in your lives like this.

So to the person who said they would take Bruce to be able to beat a Shaolin in a fight.
Its arguable.

What we cant argue about is that Bruce Lee lost in the game of life and mastering reality. His soul had a hugh lesson to learn here.

Even though as me and others such as Bassplayer have pointed out he clearly believed in qi on some conscious level. His propensity to yang energy and therfore ego meant he could not admit to himself that there was a force in the universe greater than him, that could control his destiny. Thus he never made the changes that would have turned him from a famous and respected and imitated man into a wise enlightened living embodiment of balance in the universe.

I hope he gets another chance.



posted on Jul, 12 2009 @ 01:42 AM
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that is exactly the description of bruce lee I've heard. you have study this subject a lot.

I agree with most of your tai chi assertions. Although the shaolin monks were not doing tai chi but something very similar called rou quan. Rou quan and it's like influenced the wudang temple which came after the songshan, fukian, emei, kwangtung, temples in that order. Rou quan had been around along with diamond fist for a long time. the taoist having knowledge of it adapted it to become tai chi after the head abbot at wudang watched a fight between a crane and a snake and got sudden enlightenment.

but the history of shaolin is really muddled so it's no use in really trying to argue details like this, no one really knows for sure the exact dates and such with them in general.

Most songshan students learn rou chaun and yi jin jing before they are introduced to baguazhang. Baguazhang is not always used to teach chi control or even taught at all sometimes. Also, Lou Han Quan has a lot of chi gong built into it's movements so the students although well versed in external aspects have already a lot of experience of internal chi through the louhan quan, rou quan and all the chi gong exercises they do.

[edit on 12-7-2009 by BASSPLYR]



posted on Jul, 12 2009 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by BASSPLYR
the taoists share very similar beliefs regarding Yin and Yang as you do electric universe.

They even keep their hair long because they think that it acts like a antenna and storage device for the chi.


Lol, that is weird, I have been thinking similar things myself recently. The electrical nature of hair folicals, aswell as hair itself, we grow our longest hair on the top and bottom Chakras (head and root). Just something that intrigued me. Not sure whether we 'store' our Chi their, or whether it's a by product of all the 'activity' going on under the hood, then again, we can't forget Samson can we?

With regards to the 'simplicity' of some martial arts, that is one of the things I love about Tai Chi, love it, looks incredible and it is just perfection! A true understanding of how you interact with the world goes along way and that's what some of these do, they allow you to explore how your body moves and in which way you can use this, to attack or defend.

A film that demonstrates this well is Kung Fu Hustle, it is over the top and a sort of spoof, but the way they show how martial arts 'should be done' is incredible.

I totally agree, it is like poetry in motion.

Quickly back to Kung Fu Hustle, there is a moment (not sure if you've seen it) where a guy is about to get hit from behind with 2 axes, one in each hand of his attacker. Just as his attacker brings the axes down, he takes one step backwards. The guys elbows hit his shoulders, he drops the axes and then he just elbows him out of the way.

Now I know this is a film, but it is just how they showed what it is all about, simplicity. 1 step backwards not only disarmed his attacker, but gave him the power for his elbow strike to the stomach.

EMM

[edit on 12-7-2009 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]



posted on Jul, 12 2009 @ 10:13 AM
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Excellent point!
Part of the skill in using chi for defense is
anticipating your opponents moves.
It really works and is very effective!
Not to mention ALL your senses are trained and
heightened immensley!
One would be hard pressed to surprise a master.
Very often in my life I have saved my own life due
to this 'semi' constant state of higher awareness.
I know this stems from my training with chi.

I'm also kicking a dead horse on here,
but for those of you who "know" chi, I am
sure you have experienced or witnessed this firsthand.
Very interesting and a valuable skill that carries over into
other areas as well!
Music, meditation, relaxation, stretching, etc.
As well as just saving your butt sometimes!

Thanks for your posts guys! You know your Bruce!



posted on Jul, 12 2009 @ 10:43 AM
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it does not matter if there is a rational explanation or not. if something brings you a sense of wonder, mystery, and excitement then good for you.

bah the naysayers lol



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