Jail plan for owning crossbows, flamethrowers

Well boys, they'll take my (15millionBTU) flamethrower when they pry it from my (not so) cold, dead hands.

For heaven's sake. Getting to where a man can't have any fun anymore. Just because of a few pantywaist legislators.

Originally posted by tezzajw

Ownership is about 15 out of 100 people in OZ, in the states it is about 90 out of 100.
We aren't stopping anyone

Yes, atlasastro, you're stopping 15 out of 100 people from peacefully owning their crossbows. What gives you the right to want to infringe on those people owning them, peacefully?

Actually, If you read my post properly, and stop inferring that I am doing things, my response was to your comment regarding an armed population negating any Govt. dictatorship. I was pointing out our feeble gun ownership ratio. Which nationally is 15 in 100. That with this ratio of gun ownership we are not stopping anyone or any dictatorship. Here is the entire post, my reply to your comments.post by atlasastro.

BTW, that ratio is national, the legislation you brought up is only regional and not national. You need to learn or try and understand what you are talking about. The actual change to the legislation is adding a CATEGORY. That is it. All the weapons you mention or others mention, like flame throwers and crossbows are already covered in the legislation, and have been for over 10 years.
You have absolutely no Idea what you are talking about. Where were you 10 years ago.
Currently the weapons are listed as Miscellaneous Weapons.www.austlii.edu.au...

The article in your OP states that there are roughly 500 people with military style weapons in NSW, these are collectors and societies like the RSL. These people will not be effected by this legislation as they have legitimate circumstances to have weapons. No one with registered guns will be effected.

This legislation is to deal with "illegal weapons". It is illegal to own unregistered firearms of any sort in Australia.
As I suggested, contact the state legislative department that handles submissions arguing for the right to hold such weapons.
It is that simple. Groups like collectors clubs, RSL historians etc. will be ensuring their rights are maintained in holding on to weapons they have a right to hold. I suggest you endeavour to express your concern.

Your 'moral majority' viewpoint is a pathetic attempt to take away rights from people who want to enjoy their life and leisure their way. Fifteeen percent of the population is not an insignificant number.

Again we are talking about gun ownership, this group of people will not be effected by this amendment to current legislation, please read the post again. Crossbow ownership is only in the hundreds. Military style weapons, These people are collectors.

Of the 459 people who have a legitimateuse for military-style weapons, most are collectors.
Many of the weapons are kept at RSL clubs.

What I find pathetic is knee jerk reactions.

As for a "moral majority", the majority don't have a need for these weapons so morals have nothing to do with it. As it is evident in our society in Australia which has a vastly different psyche in relation to personal weapons to countries where weapons are viewed as a personal right.
Criminal organisations are being caught with these weapons, the police have asked that the weapons seized in raids now be included under the current legislation so that penalties are incurred. So these laws bear little consequence, if any as the weapons are already listed as prohibited and have been so since 1988.
The vast majority have no need or desire for these weapons. That includes a fear of the Govt. that would require an Australian to per-sue such weapons.

I could ague that far from it being a moral majority, it is more a few extremist with irrational fears that would crave such weapons, or a minority of criminals that are simply arming themselves with weapons that currently carry little or no penalty at the moment. Currently carrying any unregistered firearms in public can carry 10-14 years, the new legislation will add some other military styled weapons to the legislation all carrying similar penalties.

As this is a conspiracy site used mostly by Americans(hazarding a guess) the Moral Majority would be found here in relation to Weapons tezza. That would make your opinion the moral majority.
I would concede that within these confines one prefers to place a malevolence over the Govt. But that may not be applicable outside of these forums.
I am merely highliting this point of view particularly as the OP topic is specifically about MY state of residence. You claim these laws are a new restriction when the it is the CATEGORY that will change for these weapons.

Spell my username properly, atlasastro. Your personal vendetta and crusade against me won't work in this thread. The Moderators are watching, indeed some Super Moderators and Administrators are watching. I know that. You know that. ATS has strict decorum rules in place to stop the personal attacks and name calling.

No need to feel terrorised over a typo Tezza! I apologise.
The Mods are watching. So they should be.
As for Personal Vendettas, how is it a personal vendetta Tezza. You post a thread about my state, laws and the Govt. being a dictatorship. On a public forum. Please spare me the theatrics and accusations.
Accusing me of a vendetta is by far a greater personal attack on me than any imagined vendetta on you, from me.

This is the Third, or maybe fourth thread you have started concerning laws, criminals etc. that deal with my state, the city where I live and issues with legislation of laws that will effect the society that I live in. I am expressing my opinion, about my state, its laws and how I perceive it will effect me and others whilst challenging your opinion, which I personally feel is extreme and totally uninformed and a misrepresentation.

Government dictatorship has already kicked in. Pump action and Semi-Auto shot firearms were banned a long time ago. Now, a basic weapon like a crossbow is soon to be banned this September. The government is already taking control.

Really. The Govt. are always in control tezza, that is why we call it a Government.
It controls roads and hospitals and schools and services and transport.......because we agree to let them. It is called a social contract. They also control policing weapons.

BTW, Can you explain to me how the Ban on Pump Action and Automatic Weapons(brought in post Port Arthur) has effected Australians who could now be using those weapon defending themselves against the Govt. Were are people being attacked by our Govt., that could use these weapons now?

I can't help it if you can't see it.

Well, I don't think I will ever see what you see Tezza.

Ahuh. You're worried about bikies with crossbows, so you want to deny 15 out of 100 people the right to own one?

READ THE LINK IN MY POST. We currently have 15 in 100 gun ownership NATIONALLY. These people will not be effected at all, especially if you live OUTSIDE of the state of NSW.
Yes I am worried about the actions of Bikie gangs, arming themselves and doing whatever they want with whatever weapons they want, It is a far more rational worry than viewing the Govt. of Australia, or any regional state Govt. as a Dictatorship. As far as I know, it is currently bikies killing people in the streets, at airports, in drive by shootings, and not my state Govt. It was bikies that were caught with military style weapons not covered in the current legislation.

Hypocritical.

Perhaps if you were to actually read my post....but Whatever dude, whatever floats your current outrage.


You think I have a personal vendetta against you, you believe our Govt. is a Dictatorship, and you infer that my quoting the current gun ownership rate and the Police Commissioner asking that a few extra weapons to be included in the legislative laws regarding military style weapons is somehow depriving people of using guns.

If you have a legitimate use for these weapons you are cool.
If you don't, well its easy, get a valid reason, join a historical society, an RSL, apply for a collectors licence which is the same as getting a Gun licence with Police Checks etc!
How hard is it to see logic?
It is much better than to be full of fear or imply terror.

Is this an admission from you that crossbows are not a threat? If they're not a threat, then why ban them?

No admission, its an argument that people don't need crossbows to protect themselves, and the sovereignty of the nation from what i believe to be an Imagined Dictatorship as stated by you.

If you really believe that we are under dictatorship Tezza, You could always leave Australia. Have you considered fleeing Australia under international refugee status whilst siting human and civil rights violation by a political dictatorship?

In other words maybe you need to seek some sort of asylum.

After all, as you state and believe, we have a dictatorship.




[edit on 6-7-2009 by atlasastro]

reply to post by tezzajw


I can understand how a Cross Bow would have a legitimate hunting purpose . But what sensible use could people possible have for Flame Throwers and Grenades ?

So some guy tries to steal your wallet what are you going to do BBQ your attacker ?

I suppose Grenades are suppose to go along with Dynamite for that weekend fishing trip ?

I am genuinely at a loss here .

Originally posted by atlasastro
BTW, that ratio is national, the legislation you brought up is only regional and not national. You need to learn or try and understand what you are talking about.

Clearly that's stated in the OP and I mentioned in my OP that it was a NSW law. Perhaps you need to read all replies in the thread before making your ill-informed comments.

Originally posted by atlasastro
This legislation is to deal with "illegal weapons". It is illegal to own unregistered firearms of any sort in Australia.

The issue is that lawmakers and the moral majority want to send people to jail for owning a crossbow. A crossbow is a crossbow. It will only be illegal because a select few people want to make it illegal. This is another example of trying to strip away rights from the average person.

Originally posted by atlasastro
Again we are talking about gun ownership, this group of people will not be effected by this ammendment to current legislation, please read the post again. Crossbow onwership is only in the hundreds.

Again, the OP is not just about gun ownership. The OP mentions that NSW wants laws enacted that will see people sentenced to jail for (up to) 14 years for owning a crossbow.

Please show me your census data to prove that only a few hundred people own crossbows.

Originally posted by atlasastro
As for a "moral majority", the majority don't have a need for these weapons so morals have nothing to do with it. As it is evident in our society in Austrailia which has a vastly diferent psyche in relation to personal weapons to countries where weapons are viewed as a personal right.

It is your opinion that the majority of people don't have a need for these weapons. However, other people do want to own crossbows and they should be allowed to own them. You and the moral majority don't have a right to tell them that they can't.

Originally posted by atlasastro
I could ague that far from it being a moral majority, it is more a few extremist with irrational fears that would crave such weapons, or a minority of criminals that are simply arming themselves with weapons that currently carry little or no penalty at the moment.

You could argue it and of course you will be wrong. I know people who hunt. Yes, that's right - they go out into the bush and hunt. They have a need and a want to own a crossbow. They should not be subjected to BS disarmament laws because the moral majority want to feel 'safe'.

Originally posted by atlasastro
Currently carrying any unregistered firearms in public can carry 10-14years, the new legislation will add some other military styled weapons to the legislation all carrying similar penalties.

I don't care much for the current gun ownership laws. I don't approve of them. Don't justify one bad law by quoting another bad law.

Originally posted by atlasastro
I am merely highlitig this point of view particularly as the OP topic is specifically about MY state of residence. A state you have raised these issues on threads a vast number of times even though you do not live here, yet you infer that these laws are national.

Again you fail to read the OP. Would you care to look again, where I clearly mention the NSW government, not the Aussie Federal government? Any presumed inference, by you, is obviously a result of your inability to read the OP.

Originally posted by atlasastro
I am expressing my opinion, about my state, its laws and how I percieve it will effect me and others whilst challenging your opinion, which I personally feel is extreme and totally uninformed and a mis-representation.

You can express your opinion all that you like, as I would expect you to - within the terms and conditions of this website. By the way, I don't get caught up in flag-waving about state borders. I really don't care. You can call NSW your state, if you want to wear that identity badge on your ATS avatar.

With this OP, I am providing my opinion about an arse-backwards NSW law that will take effect and further dumb-down and subdue a compliant population.

Do you know that there's some great pig hunting in the outback of NSW? Take a trip out beyond your comfort zone and see how many people use crossbows on the razorbacks.

Originally posted by atlasastro
BTW, Can you explain to me how the Ban on Pump Action and Automatic Weapons(brought in post Port Arthur) has effected Australians who could now be using those weapon defending themselves against the Govt. Were are people being attacked by our Govt., that could use these weapons now?

You might not see it coming. It won't happen in a rush, it will happen slowly, over time. I know many people who were forced to submit their pump-action shotguns and their semi-auto rifles. Devastating.

Weapons that some of those people owned for a generation had to be surrendered to comply with the moral majority. Weapons that taught children some responsibility and what it means to kill. Take a mis-fit kid, put a gun in his hand and let him kill his first rabbit or fox. See how that kid grows up knowing what it means to take a life. Life is precious. Life is worth living and defending.

Originally posted by atlasastro
Yes I am worried about the actions of Bikie gangs, arming themselves and doing whatever they want with whatever weapons they want, It is a far more rational worry than viewing the Govt. of Australia, or any regional state Govt. as a Dictatorship.

You're lucky you've only got to worry about the bikie gangs. I personally know someone who had a cop put his service revolver to the person's face, as a threat to confess. Yep, that's right. I won't go into details, other than saying the person I know was completely innocent and through sheer coincidence was 'framed' for something.

The government, politicians, law courts and police force are as corrupt, if not more so, than any other branch of society. The cops wouldn't have the Office of Police Integrity if all of their members were honest and 'upheld the law'. Corrupt cops get to carry guns, while honest citizens are banned from owning anything but simple bolt actions.

The moral majority can bleat all they like about how they want the government to keep them safe. Meanwhile the realists can choose to live carefully and learn to keep themselves safe.

Originally posted by atlasastro
As far as I know, it is currently bikies killing people in the streets, at airports, in drive by shootings, and not my state Govt. It was bikies that were caught with miltary style weapons not covered in the current legislation.

Please quote all of the killings that bikie gangs have made in the past five years. From those murders, please list how many were innocent by-standers and not otherwise involved in bikie gangs? Please compare those muders with other murders committed by the general population and tell me if there is a statistical significance to worry about bikie gangs.

From my understanding, the bikie gangs have only been knocking each other off. The day they start gunning down innocent civvies for the thrill of the hunt, then you might have a valid point.

Originally posted by atlasastro
No admission, its an arguement that people don't need crossbows to protect themselves, and the soverignty of the nation from what i believe to be an Imagined Dictatorship as stated by you.

No, people don't need crossbows to protect themselves. However, some people might want one to protect themself, or to go pig hunting. That's their right.

In context of this thread..and tendency towards insecurity and fear mongeriing in government today...It has been years since I fabricated this tool.

I got a 3 foot piece of 3/4 seamless copper pipe, One needle..very hard metal from a welding scaler pneumatic gun, and a 100 psi air hose.

I fabricated a seal into a cone and wrapped it around the needle sealing and adhering it with duct tape. I then fitted it into the end of the pipe and cut it off closely to fit with a pair of sissors.

Then pointing it carefully in a safe direction I let the air go full blast. I was astonished at how much power and penetration ability this blowgun had with 100 psi of compressed air. I was able to shoot this homemade dart almost a hundred yards. With this heavy needle it had tremendous penetration properties. I stuck/shot it into a 4x4 board and could not pull it out without breaking the needle.

Gives some of you raised on fear and insecurities...the warm fuzzies does it not??

Did I tell you folks that I also have a set of lockpicks in my pocket and know how to use them???

Ignorance is bliss ..is it not??

Think...muse..dont amuse.

A-without
Muse-thinking

Without thinking...amuse or amusement. Amusement ..something spoonfed to us to prevent or avoid thinking. Fear and insecurities does the same thing. This way we tend to look towards government to save us from individual responsibility and or thinking....by amusements.

Orangetom

[edit on 6-7-2009 by orangetom1999]

reply to post by xpert11

Your problem for making a determination is "sensible use."

I have a 1967 427 Corvette that gets about 8 miles per gallon with a strong tail wind, downhill, and yet will turn the quarter mile in the low 11's. This car is anything but "sensible," but that isn't the point. I WANTED it.

I guarantee you, you either have a pet - which I think is a waste of money - or you have some quirks of your own that I would think entirely foolish and wasteful. Beyond practicality.

So if I want a flamethrower to accelerate barbeques, or a six-pound harpoon, or machinegun, or Barnett Commando crossbow, who's business is it?

And by the way, I've fished many times with grenades. They guarantee a successful fishing trip every single time.

It's my money. Until I flame someone or shoot someone, it's no one's business. Too many pantywaist busybodies with too much time on their hands.

You don't want a crossbow? Don't get one!

Just stay out of my business.


[edit on 6-7-2009 by dooper]

does hairspray and a lighter taped to a broom count as a flamethrower?

Originally posted by MR BOB
does hairspray and a lighter taped to a broom count as a flamethrower?

Yes but I want to know how you trigger that

Originally posted by dooper
For heaven's sake. Getting to where a man can't have any fun anymore. Just because of a few pantywaist legislators.

Well we still have chain saws One berserker with a chain saw running amuck through congress can make a statement

Originally posted by MR BOB
does hairspray and a lighter taped to a broom count as a flamethrower?

LOL LOL...thanks BOB...I had forgotten about this. We used to utilize spray deodorant and a zippo lighter and make a small flame thrower.Yes some hair sprays will do the same thing.

Makes me wonder how many people got roasted while smoking and spraying on hairspray?? Not very smart.

Dooper,

While I dont have any performance cars or motorcycles...I dont tell other people what to drive.
I actually operate my scooter and mopeds to and from work most of the time and save my gasoline for my truck and cars for the weekends or big jobs. Nonetheless I dont tell other people what to drive. That is their buisness...not mine.
I also dont approve of a government telling people what to drive or operate in the line of a vehicle. I see the day coming when the government wants to slowly coerce and force people away from gasoline vehicles and into expensive electric cars with limited speed and range...or public transportation where the wildlife will be hanging out to prey on them. No protection around....while we are distracted by "Biker Gangs!"
I predict that there will be no controls or stopping the "Biker Gangs" because they need them to get more control over ordinary peoples.
THey do the same thing here with race, sex, and other placebo issues to keep and maintain power and control...by default.

There is a bill quietly circulating for a vote..which will require new homes to have built into them a circuit for charging an electric car. Olde homes must be adapted with this same device in before they can be sold on the market. This is a subtle form of coercion or dictatorship. It is not free market economics. Electric cars are very expensive and have very limited range.

What really torques my jaws and pains my backside is the thought that while everyone else is paying out through the nose for these "limitations" on their ability to get around and at very high costs....our leadership will be flying in their jets and traveling around in their limousines. These people will also have access to arms and hired protection.

I call this the selling of the souls of a nations peoples. Another word for it is Whoredom. The other word for this type of dual moral system...is Feudalism. A dual law system...royalty and the slobs.

When I see people painting a picture of their Utopias..in many of these countries ...I have to laugh. They are going to paint themselves into a corner from which their government nor public education systems have equipped them to handle. It is already happening in the UK and the informations about what much of that happening in Australia is being kept out of our media here.
One hears quiet stories and articles about the Australian government at a loss and not being able to explain the surge in certain kinds of violence and break ins in to homes and such in certain areas. Gun control was supposed to cause alot of this to stop. So they do the logical and reasonable thing...disarm the public more..while focusing on Biker clubs and gangs.
Our government is precisely that logical and reasonable/stupid in their attempt to follow a continental/international political policy. Astonishing but true.

Thanks,
Orangetom

reply to post by The Last Man on Earth



For crying outloud, a crossbow is a TOOL.... As a TOOL it can be used for many different things....and yes we can use a bolt, or arrow for a toothpick.... We are going to have to start making # up to be able even to own a pencil pretty soon....

Very soon whenever a girly fight starts on the streets some people are going to quickly call the police. "hurry they are going to kill each other, they are girly fighting"....

I am sorry, but some people are just too much.....



[edit on 7-7-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by billybob



I prefer the Barnett Predator. The Sportsman's Guide used to have it, but for some reason they don't have it anymore.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


an axe is a tool, a hammer is a tool, a knife is a tool. all can be used as a weapon.

but what else can a crossbow be used for? its not a tool.

I think they dont like the idea that you can get high powered ones, with scopes and basicly sniper, withought revealing your loction.

reply to post by MR BOB


The maximum effective range of a crossbow for hunting purposes is 40 yards. Sure, you can put a scope on it. But why the hell would you aesthetics withstanding? Is there really some pervasive fear of being "sniped" at 40 yards by an individual with a crossbow? You're more likely to drown in an airplane toilet while being raped by a circus runaway gorilla in a Winter lighting storm over the Equator.