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MJ and the Magicians

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posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by IAmD1

1. No please do share some of those symbolic lyrics. If you want a conversation going then why dismiss my argument without providing the proof of the oposite? I am all ears.


I shall. Other than the dualistic symbolism in the lyrics that I have already pointed out view this video on the nature of subliminal programming in pop music.... they are not what they appear to be....they are hidden.








Originally posted by IAmD1 2. Haha you are funny I didn't force you to say anything.


Fair enough, my wording was incorrect there. What I was saying is that you misrepresented my point of view and I had to clarify my stance yet again. Thats about five times now. And you still havent understood it or the content as a whole.


Originally posted by IAmD13. I believe that's where you are wrong and it also makes me wonder which team you play for.


This is just a saga now.


Originally posted by IAmD1 The 'devil/evil/demon/negative force/--insert your choice of name for the evil one here--' always thought so much more of him self than was true. In reality he/she/it is nothing but another being bound by the laws of God/the creator/Christ/ Allah .....--insert your choice of name for the one god creator here--

Therefore I believe Michael was very much protected against any spiritual attacks and much more so at an early age. I based this on the generally accepted idea that children are more pure and connected to source. Since he may have been an important child with a world message what makes you think that the benevolent forces would have let the illuminati controll him to the extent you are claiming? It is obvious by all the things that he did and the songs that he sang that he was far from controlled by 'evil'.
That 'evil' was all round him - YES. Controlling him - I doubt. But I'm ready to be proved wrong. It's just that I do not see any tangible evidence that he was a controlled puppet.


This is just a matter of looking at the material. I see a lot of symbolism in his work and a lot of strange circumstances in his life.

You have gone from saying that he was not a puppet to saying he was protected by the forces of good? And still not really addressed my point about Jackson having no protection from the powers that be when young. By your logic shouldant the forces of good protected him from his farther and all that was brought on him?


Originally posted by IAmD1 Ahh and hang on if he was a puppet then how did he convert to islam against their will. And why on earth would the illuminati be afraid of Islam? Please elaborate on this I do not see the logic in this.


This is what I mean. Go back and read my posts you will see I said his programming broke down, he rebelled when he had the power to.

If you do not know why the Illuminati would be afraid of Islam then do some historical or present day research. Saracens and Templars mate, look it up.


Originally posted by IAmD1 I believe you on the other hand may well be a mind controlled puppet. And I base this on the fact that you proclaim this ' handler' and the illuminati to be mightier than the will off --insert your choice of name for the one god creator here--! You only see what you want to see. Or perhaps what they tell you to (same could obviously be true for myself)


Try attacking the argument instead of my person.

But of course you wont be able to do that because I have either touched a nerve or you dont like me for some reason. Your ego is trying to protect itself by coming up with nonesense like I am some sort of................what are you insinuating I am exactly?

Do some research, look at the situation. This stuff does not apply only to Jackson.


Originally posted by IAmD1

much respect to you


Clearly this is not the case. You make no effort to properly read my posts, you come back with this tirade when I didnt cause any animosity at all, and you suggest you dont know "which team" I "play for". What exactly does that mean?

And a that winking face is just cocky dude. Give your ego a day off.




posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 07:19 PM
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www.whale.to...

Read all about it- but please must read all the way through.

[edit on 9-7-2009 by dgtempe]



posted on Jul, 9 2009 @ 07:36 PM
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Nice one Dgtempe. Just what I have been looking for.



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 04:50 AM
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reply to post by Majestic23
 



Magestic23 - You seem to have got me all wrong. So let's start over.
I don't have anything personal against you or your idea. I find it interesting however I do not see anything in the proof that you've given that convinces me other than to the oppposite of what you claim.

I don't see what you see. I see proof of the opposite. His hand gestures, his lyrics all he said and did. As supposed to many others (public figures) where the evidence actually do point to control of the - not so benevolent - kind. By you continuing to spread propaganda against Michael and his messages you are yourself contributing to the disinformation lest you prove that you are right. For one I do not see the point. How did Mikael badly influence the people he touched?

If he was an illuminati puppet he wasn't very good at it as he infact caused much joy, unity and love between his fans from all religions countries and creeds. If that is the illuminati in action then frankly I do not see what all the fuss is about. Sound like they are the good guys.

About Islam. Islam, christianity and Judaism is built on the same foundation. Why then would the illuminati be so afraid of Islam and not judaism and christianity. In your own logic please.


On good versus evil. That Mikael had a bad childhood and still became a peace seeking, all loving unifying force in the world only proves my point further. He was protected. On the whole the body is not the important part but the spirit. And Mikaels spirit appears to have been very strong. Had he been a puppet for evil he would have become someone else. Or what say you.

I hope we'll keep this conversation civilised and not about you or me. I was merely saying that who knows who's serving who? For all I know we could all be under someone elses control. Serving that someones purpose.

Love and light



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 05:48 PM
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Why is it I have to address your points but you address none of mine. You just keep giving your opinion over and over again.

You think he was all good.

I think he was manipulated then broke away.

Not such differant viewpoints really but some people just dont want to hear anything bad about Michael.



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by IAmD1
About Islam. Islam, christianity and Judaism is built on the same foundation. Why then would the illuminati be so afraid of Islam and not judaism and christianity. In your own logic please.


They are based on the same universal truths yes. But beyond that they are very symbolistic and esoteric mixed with disinformation and psychological strategy.

Jesus, Moses, Mohammed were all initiate into esoteric societies and had acheived some sort of enlightenment. They have been used by the powers that be for their own gain as organised religions.

Why the Illuminatists are afraid of Islam is that they never fully controlled it and of the three you mentioned they it is the most "potent" lets say in terms of spiritual understanding. Then take it back to Saracens vs The Knights Templar and you can see that one almighty grudge match has been brewing for a long time. Basically the Islamists can upset their plans.



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 06:35 PM
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You don't get to MJ's status unless you're serving the illuminati's position. Politics is the same way. I think most people in the west serve the illuminati's position, even if it's something as minute as using a credit card or cash. The illuminati made the internet, so OP is also serving the luciferian agenda, amirite? Unless you're living out in the woods without any contact, you're pretty much serving the illuminati. In the end, it comes down to doing what you really want, and when asked if MJ did what he wanted, I think the answer is he did, and he was good at it.



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 06:48 PM
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If you think the illuminati used moses, jesus, etc, who do you think the real illuminati are?



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by Archon_Adept
If you think the illuminati used moses, jesus, etc, who do you think the real illuminati are?


Everything that is manifest has to work on the principles of duality to be so. Good vs Evil, Ying vs Yang. Perhaps neither is technically good or bad. Some achieve full enlightenment and transcend the realm of opposing forces and some choose a side so speak. The illuminati represent one side, they are like an arm of a god, he giveth and taketh away. I personally believe they are evil but I am not enlightened so perhaps my perspective is wrong. I dont necessarily think the PTB had control over those characters or historical figures aside from perhaps Moses and even then not in any direct way. They certainly used their characters and manipulated their teachings after death.



posted on Jul, 10 2009 @ 07:11 PM
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Hey Majestic,

You might have already seen this its from 2001 but when I saw it
yesterday, I thought you would like it.

Michael Tsarion
"The Destruction of Atlantis"

video.google.com...



posted on Jul, 11 2009 @ 03:23 AM
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Originally posted by Majestic23
Why is it I have to address your points but you address none of mine. You just keep giving your opinion over and over again.

You think he was all good.

I think he was manipulated then broke away.

Not such differant viewpoints really but some people just dont want to hear anything bad about Michael.


I do not have any problem hearing bad things about Michael. And no I do not believe he was all good. No human is. I just don't believe he was manipulated to the extent you say.

I have been looking into his symbolisms. The only reference I find to his hand gestures and their meanings comes from the budhist mudras. IMO most of his gestures seem benevolent not the opposite.

I have yet to find an image with him doing the sign of baphomet like many politician, musicians and other public figures do. The image fronting one of the videos you provided also proves my point as his hand gestures are not that of 'Baphomet' If you look carefully Michaels 'mudras' are entirely different. Everyone who points to heaven and earth are not making the sign of baphomet. Notice the finger possitions.

I hope you agree that I am adressing your points and not just repeating my opinion over and over.

I am not a blinded Michael fan. I seek the truth same as you reardless of where it will take me. However I will not accept any theory that does not ring true/ show enough evidence for me to believe it. In the end of the day in my limited human mind I can only process things based on my understanding and experiences. All i can do to open my mind is to keep looking and asking questions, join discussions like these and test my own logic against the logic of others.

[edit on 11/7/2009 by IAmD1]

[edit on 11/7/2009 by IAmD1]



posted on Jul, 11 2009 @ 07:43 AM
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Possible, as I believe anything is but... damn thats a crazy assumption. I would go for alien before that... he sure looks it. Hell, he could be alien under Illuminati control lol.



posted on Jul, 11 2009 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by IAmD1
I have been looking into his symbolisms. The only reference I find to his hand gestures and their meanings comes from the budhist mudras. IMO most of his gestures seem benevolent not the opposite.


What about when he used to grab his junk and grind his hips so often?

But yes the hand sign he has shown may very well be based on benevolent teachings or beliefs. What is evident to me though is that someone who uses that sign so often in their own way knows how it can be used to draw energy and intent. This is where the sign comes from.

On its own nothing like evidence to support what I am saying (not just me, a lot of hard working conspiracists paint the same picture) however with the rest of the strange occourances, it smacks of conspiracy. I for one fully believe the agenda manipulates the populace with "stars" and they do this by psycho-spiritual programming.

I did not even think about Michael Jackson when learning about MK Ultra and its affiliate programs, its just he fits in so very well that it is impossible to ignore.



posted on Jul, 12 2009 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by Majestic23
 

Star and Flag. I am sure as well as MJ's sister La Toya Jackson is - he was murdered (see her thoughts about the death of MJ in Mail on Sunday)

You'll find additional info on this murder in my thread MJ was assasinated as well.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Also watch this video




[edit on 12-7-2009 by FIFIGI]



posted on Jul, 12 2009 @ 05:34 PM
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Hi guys!
Thank you Majestic(23) for sharing your theories and information. I personally feel there IS indeed a connection between MJ and the Illuminati. I also think there are MANY more connections throughout Hollywood and the music industry. Something like the album cover of "Dangerous" does not merely happen because "it looks pretty." The truth is hidden in plain sight and for those who have open eyes, minds, and hearts.. you will see it. If you dive into something like this with a preconceived notion that it is all "by chance" and "coincidence" most likely you will not see the obvious..

"Sometimes you need to believe to see."

thanks again!



posted on Jul, 12 2009 @ 06:44 PM
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reply to post by Majestic23
 


Thanks for the reply. I knew I had asked the question about clowns but couldn't find the thread. I'm new to the site and just found the myats button at the top with all the threads I've commented on.

Thanks again.



posted on Jul, 12 2009 @ 07:25 PM
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Originally posted by cindymars
Hey Majestic,

You might have already seen this its from 2001 but when I saw it
yesterday, I thought you would like it.

Michael Tsarion
"The Destruction of Atlantis"

video.google.com...


I actually heard of Tsarion some time ago but I have never really seen his material. Thanks for the info Cindy.
My opinion so far is that he has some pretty good information and some thats a bit questionable. It is apparent some in the conspiracy community, if we can call it that, put a lot of criticism upon him and some cite he leans towards Luciferianism. I have seen no evidence of this thus far.



posted on Jul, 12 2009 @ 07:29 PM
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Originally posted by Dracan6
Possible, as I believe anything is but... damn thats a crazy assumption. I would go for alien before that... he sure looks it. Hell, he could be alien under Illuminati control lol.


It is curious, anywhere we find magical symbology aliens are not far away. Jesus/Alien, Zeuss/Alien etc...
However its possible we need to think not in terms of nuts and bolts physical aliens and more in an interdimensional/etheric way.



posted on Jul, 12 2009 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by FIFIGI

You'll find additional info on this murder in my thread MJ was assasinated as well.

Also watch this video



[edit on 12-7-2009 by FIFIGI]


Nice one FIFIGI I was looking for that video!

Yes your thread on his assasination brings forward some excellent points. And seems to lead us further down the rabbit hole. I have not been able to figure the full picture about his death whatsoever, it is a quagmire. All that stuff with Latoya now!? I hope when things settle down we might be able to make some sense of it all.



posted on Jul, 12 2009 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by light_circle
Hi guys!
Thank you Majestic(23) for sharing your theories and information. I personally feel there IS indeed a connection between MJ and the Illuminati. I also think there are MANY more connections throughout Hollywood and the music industry. Something like the album cover of "Dangerous" does not merely happen because "it looks pretty." The truth is hidden in plain sight and for those who have open eyes, minds, and hearts.. you will see it. If you dive into something like this with a preconceived notion that it is all "by chance" and "coincidence" most likely you will not see the obvious..

"Sometimes you need to believe to see."

thanks again!


Thank you for making such a great contribution. This is such an important concept for anyone interested in seeing any higher meaning in our reality. A change in perspective and the loss of preconceptions through the loss of ego. We must know that we are nothing on the grand scale but everything at the same time. To know how the Illuminatists work surely we have to think like them.

Conspiracies seem to work the same from the smallest scale to the most grand, they are repetitions and patterns. Co- incidence and conspiracy obviously go hand in hand but sometimes there are so many co-incidences that it becomes illogical to assume this is the way, barring conspiracies on the multiversal levels like fate.




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