conscious Oobe....It's Real!!

tell us more about what technique you use and how you developed it...I.E what exercises you done ETC

Originally posted by Mitzella
Hi Old Man

I don’t mind listening to differing points of view but for someone who says he wants to warn others of the dangers of OBE and other “occult practices” you aren’t really making a strong case for yourself.

Your one and only concrete example of the dangers you claim to be warning of is the priest who was so badly scared during an OBE that he never attempted to Astral Project again. Not only did the person in your story come to no harm what-so-ever but you don’t even have anyway of knowing whether the account is true or accurate since you say you read it in a book.

If you have more helpful examples of what you’re talking about (namely first hand experience) then by all means, I am all ears. Otherwise like Enyalius has already pointed out, it seems like you’re just jumping to extremes with out any real understanding of the subject.

To answer your response, Mitzella........firstly, the man in question DID come to some harm........he was damaged psychologically for life after his experience, as far as I know. Do a search for the book if you want to.

Secondly, although I was never involved in Astral Projection, I WAS involved in many other occult practices such as remote viewing, witchcraft and curses, ouija board............and a host of others........... and, as a result, suffered some very damaging and frightening 'hauntings' which lasted for many years.

Of course I want to warn others of the dangers.........without appearing to be too 'one-sided'.

My position is this: I've seen things from both sides of the fence, so to speak.

Let's take another example........smoking........I smoke myself....hopelessly addicted.......although I gave up for about nine years at one time....


Now, before I gave up, I used to listen to people who would warn me about smoking.........and I used to resent them for doing so.

My thoughts went something like 'Leave me alone...I know it's bad for me, and I will give up in my own time'

When I finally DID give up, I saw the truth of the warnings, and was now on the 'other' side of the fence........so people who DID smoke were eager to avoid me whenever I said it's bad for you.

Now, unfortunately, I smoke again.

But, my experience in this area has shown me that a person's viewpoint can change, depending on what are their circumstances at that particular time.


Yes, I went back to smoking, but I will never, never go back to the occult.

I hope that my post doesn't seem too judgemental or high-minded.....better than thou.........approach...

It's just that, as an insider, I can see the inherent dangers involved in any kind of occult practice, and avoid such things at all costs, and try to warn others (albeit without going into too much detail) about the dangers they might themselves be in.

If you want to brush off the warnings, that's fine. I've done so myself.

[edit on 2-4-2007 by Old Man]

Basically put, I just don't want people to think I speak as an outsider.

I spent many years studying and practicing all kinds of occult routes.

It was my main and sole purpose in life at one time. It used to mean everything to me. It used to fill me with so much excitement, and it gave something of a meaning to my humdrum life.


But, after many years of experience, I am forced back to the conclusion that although something may seem important or relevant to our lives at a certain stage, there comes a time when we have to face the truth of our situation....namely, that what we thought was the 'be-all-and-end-all' of our existence isn't quite what it was made out to be, and there is more to life.

Without meaning to seem insensitive, or inexperienced, in these matters, I would put it to you that this whole occult situation is something akin to the drugs culture that is sweeping our world....


By that I mean that every kid who smokes marijuana (or takes speed, ecstacy, or whatever) thinks that they know better than anyone else.

...I've taken lots of speed, ecstacy, marijuana, btw, so I know what I'm talking about....

'I'm alright, Jack.......I know what I'm doing......it won't cause ME any harm....I know what I'm doing....I can control it'

They don't want to know!!

Quite often, it's only when you've been through the experience, and come out the other side to tell the tale, that you really appreciate the danger that you were in at the time.

I'm not really an old man....I've just turned 43.....but I've seen a lot and done a lot....

And I maintain that anybody who contradicts me about the dangers of the occult will one day eat their words.

It's only a matter of time.


Peace.

I don't really understand why some people insistantly catagorise the OOBE in the realm of the 'occult'.
It is true that occultists do strive to accomplish this feat, but it oftentime happens spontaniously to the very young and pure of heart, so it can't be 'of the dark side'......you can NOT be serious that a pure hearted 4 year old who spontaniously goes O.O.B.E is an occultist can you?

.........this is the goal of many a meditater and many a Buddist monk and they are in NO WAY practicing the occult. People have very clear recall of Jesus Christ himself helping them out of body when they ask him to, and you think this is occultist in nature?

O.O.B.E naturally occurs to ALL people during sleep so HOW could this possibly be considered an OCCULT practice?

Human beings naturally need food and water to sustain a body, in the same sense the spirit travels away from the body to refresh and rejuvinate itself. So if the refreshment of the spirit is 'occult' in nature then would'nt the refreshment of the body also be considered an occult practice?
So when we eat a meal we practice witchcraft? This is what I am understanding from the people who are insisting that the experiance of O.O.B.E is occult in nature.
THEY KNOW BEST they say......
They are saying they know better than a devout Taoist Monk sitting in a Temple high in the Himalayan mnts who meditates and practices O.O.B.E with the single goal of spiritual enlightenment, and calling them an occultist?
I think they would beg to differ, as do I on this very point.

No way you can say O.O.B.E is akin to the use of a ouije board, or casting a dark spell. They are NOTHING alike on any level tsk tsk for saying so.
Thats just silly....
O.O.B.E is no 'dark art'
I have yet to see this written in any book I have read on the subject. I have read ALOT on this subject & I mean ALOT.....not every single book written on it no.... because I am a light worker and have no need to attempt to approach this from the dark side.......I am well aware some people DO approach this from the dark side, but that does NOT make it a dark art in nature.

I tend to think a person with a background in the occult, who tried a few times to accomplish O.O.B.E via occult type methods yet failed miserably, would be the only type of person with such an negative opinion.

It is not always true that with age comes wisdom.
Many times a person can be so filled with 'personal ideas' they cling to as 'fact'... they are not open minded enough to see there are in fact MANY paths to true wisdom, and not just the road they walk on.

Originally posted by theRiverGoddess
It is true that occultists do strive to accomplish this feat, but it oftentime happens spontaniously to the very young and pure of heart, so it can't be 'of the dark side'......you can NOT be serious that a pure hearted 4 year old who spontaniously goes O.O.B.E is an occultist can you?

Controlling it is an occult technique. Breathing is something everybody does.. yet controlling it is an occult technique.

.........this is the goal of many a meditater and many a Buddist monk and they are in NO WAY practicing the occult.

Yes they are.

They are saying they know better than a devout Taoist Monk sitting in a Temple high in the Himalayan mnts who meditates and practices O.O.B.E with the single goal of spiritual enlightenment, and calling them an occultist?

Yes again. We do many of the same things with the same goal in mind.

I'm afraid you have an incorrect impression of what the occult world actually is. If you get right down to the brass tacks, the occult world is a way to adapt eastern practices for the western mind.

Originally posted by Cug
I'm afraid you have an incorrect impression of what the occult world actually is. If you get right down to the brass tacks, the occult world is a way to adapt eastern practices for the western mind.

wow.
I guess I do have the incorrect impression, and I am in need of schooling.
My impression of the mere word OCCULT is that it it representative of practices of the dark side....(please excuse my JEDI references but I see things easily in that way)........I see the Jedi as light workers and practicioners of The Dark Side as the occultists.......thinking that anything occult is just plain bad for us, or naturally negative in nature.

Cug since I seem to be so in need of schooling here, can you suggest a book or something I can learn more on this topic from? Because now I am feeling foolish in my attempt to argue a point I guess MY belief system is all ascew about.
I am not to old to try and learn new ways of thinking......MAYBE things of the 'occult' are IMO not so bad afterall, hmmmmmm THATS an eye opener for me.

If it IS true that O.O.B.E is in fact an occult practice......IS IT an overall harmfull practice? I am thinking the only harm is in encountering things your mind is not ready to deal with, and if your open to the possibility of anything your pretty safe......I do use sage smudge as a cleanser as in Native American practice......(I have always seen this 'cleansing' as a light working tool and NOT of the occult)........

I am feeling so very BLONDE tonight.........

[edit on 3-4-2007 by theRiverGoddess]

I partially agree with TRG, however the word Occult is used incorrectly. This is understandable since a lot of people don't know the real meaning of it. Heck even among occultists there is a varying definition.

From my point of view Occult is derived from the latin word Occultus. This is basically "beyond the visible" (roughly translated from dutch). What an occultist does is look further then the known and obvious and looks deep within themselves as well as the world. Several religions, like Christianity, interpretate that by doing "dark and satanic" stuff. This is far from true.

Next to that I see the occult as a mere word that talks about the old traditions and teachings whether they be from Eastern religions, Christian Gnostic teachings of Jezus, Traditional Witchcraft (not Wicca or modern varieties of Witchcraft).

To me, the occult is studying life/the universe in both its visible and hidden aspects. The occult has nothing to do with Christian doctrine about dark and satanic practices. So no...the occult is not more harmfull by definition. In fact everything in life is Neutral and only in the mind of the one who views it the neutral becomes Light or Dark within the mind of those that view it.

Any practice, including OBE's, is as dangerous as walking down the street and getting shot or run over by a car or any other daily dangers. However, one does need proper practice to learn and prepare for the unexpected just in case. Most people just jump in thinking al is ok being unprepared and unpracticed and their ignorance leads to their problems. A common issue among dabblers en pubelescents. Ignorance is not an excuse any more in the Age of Information.

Anything supernatural is automatically catagorised as occult, however I disagree with this. An occultist walks a thin line in which he/she tries to find balance and this applies in many a context. One context is Science (mind) and New-Age (heart)...the occultist is in the middle. When you look back you will see that the occult is the parent to both of those streams, however each stream has decided to follow only one aspect of the occult. Luckily science is moving more towards the heart (spiritual) side of things even coming back towards the occult even though science uses different words to talk about excactely the same that we've known for about 3000-4000 years.

Science and occultists both have a common feat. They're able to talk about what they're doing and repeat the proces and be "in control". The fact is....you won't have real control untill you're able to let it go. New-Age in general just does things by heart having no real idea what they are doing.

So what Cug says is correct as well. Learning and being able to "control" OBE's are an occult practice. In fact the occultists have been doing it before the lable Occult was even formed. Having periodic or random experiences that just come and go without any control or know-how what it is or what to do with it is not occult.

[edit on 3-4-2007 by Enyalius]

Okay, I'm quilty, I admit it. When I think of the occult I tend to think of something negative but strictly speaking Cug is probably more accurate in his use of the word. Here's what dictionary.com says occult means:

1. of or pertaining to magic, astrology, or any system claiming use or knowledge of secret or supernatural powers or agencies.
2. beyond the range of ordinary knowledge or understanding; mysterious.
3. secret; disclosed or communicated only to the initiated.
4. hidden from view.

In the interest of total disclosure, there were 7 other definitions listed but they were all so similar I decided to leave them out. You can always check them out for yourself if you feel the need.

So according to this definition something occult isn't necessarily something negative it's just something that's not common knowledge. Correct me if I'm wrong but I get the feeling that's not quite the way Old Man is using the word.

Seems to me almost anything can be used for both negative and positive purposes. Old Man you wrote about being involved with curses and such. I think we tend to get back what we give out and I wonder if your negative experiences with the occult may have been due in part to such negative pursuits?

I can only speak for myself (although I would bet most people on this thread would agree with me) but I'm in no way pursuing anything negative nor am I just trying to find some kind of excitement to fill a humdrum life. In fact, OBE isn't even my main goal. Like the Buddhist monk, I'm more interested in developing my awareness/mindfulness to increase my spiritually and emotional well being. OBE has just been a side effect of that increased awareness. I don't mean to sound dismissive but I just can't see how strengthening my awareness for my own peace of mind can cause more harm than good. So far it's been positively life changing.

I found this thread very interesting and enjoyed all the stories told but I have one question and if this has been asked I apologize, has anyone thats had a OOBE been able to verify it? As in, going out while OBE and seeing someones license plate that you have never saw before then confirming it later? Thanks

Originally posted by Mitzella


Correct me if I'm wrong but I get the feeling that's not quite the way Old Man is using the word.

Oh, I am completely familiar with the meaning of the word 'occult' in the dictionary sense of the word.

But you are right in detecting that I refer to the occult in a 'negative' way. For very good reasons.

And just because the word 'occult' means hidden from the view of the average Joe, that doesn't necessarily mean that we should persue that knowledge for ourselves. Some things are meant to be hidden from view, I believe, for good reason, whether we understand them or not.

Take for example the story of Adam and Eve with the serpent, who offered them a taste of the tree of knowledge......just because the fruit looked sweet to them, and profitable.....ultimately it led to their downfall......if you believe the story......which I do.....I believe there is a lesson in there for all of us.

There are some things we are better off not knowing.....and there are some aquaintances we are better off not making.........if you get my drift.

I listened to the Coast to Coast show last night and it was SO GREAT!
O.O.B.E was the topic of the night!

I got so much energy from just hearing all that amazing information, I had a hard time sleeping & I ended up wide awake and back online ordering the speaker William L. Buhlman's book "The Secret of the Soul: Using Out-of-Body Experiences to Understand Our True Nature" from Amazon
I went even further and ordered 2 other books on this subject I am know I can learn from...."Astral Dynamics: A New Approach to Out-of-Body Experiences" and "Practical Psychic Self-Defense: Understanding and Surviving Unseen Influences" both written by Robert Bruce. I have asked alot of questions about 'self-defence' in this practice and was glad to see an entire book on the subject.

I have to hand it to The Old Man for the course our discussion has taken.
I really LIKE what everyone has had to offer on the subject of exactly WHAT the word occult means. Taking the time to talk about its specifics in referance to O.O.B.E I think is important addition to this topic. It is about time we brought this up actually, so that we all are as CLEAR in our understanding of how we are using this word 'OCCULT' as well as exactly what it means.
With my newfound understanding of the word, I am now PROUD to call myself a practicioner of the occult, for I do indeed dabble in the 'unseen', in various levels and not just in O.O.B.E

William L. Buhlman said severall times last night that all is NEUTRAL in the varied levels of reality, and it really is just our own perception of things wich will make things seem good or bad. It is all personal perception from a personal belief system....................and NOTHING is either negative or positive.



[edit on 4-4-2007 by theRiverGoddess]

Originally posted by Cug

Originally posted by theRiverGoddess
It is true that occultists do strive to accomplish this feat, but it oftentime happens spontaniously to the very young and pure of heart, so it can't be 'of the dark side'......you can NOT be serious that a pure hearted 4 year old who spontaniously goes O.O.B.E is an occultist can you?

Controlling it is an occult technique. Breathing is something everybody does.. yet controlling it is an occult technique.

.........this is the goal of many a meditater and many a Buddist monk and they are in NO WAY practicing the occult.

Yes they are.

They are saying they know better than a devout Taoist Monk sitting in a Temple high in the Himalayan mnts who meditates and practices O.O.B.E with the single goal of spiritual enlightenment, and calling them an occultist?

Yes again. We do many of the same things with the same goal in mind.

I'm afraid you have an incorrect impression of what the occult world actually is. If you get right down to the brass tacks, the occult world is a way to adapt eastern practices for the western mind.

Absolutely right, Cug. Thanks for clearing up that misunderstanding with your explanation.

oldman:Yes, I went back to smoking, but I will never, never go back to the occult.

There is nothing occultish about finding out about everyone's true nature thru obe. I guess you'll be one of the minions who finds out at the end of life that you have been in denial and living a lie all your life. That in fact you are not human, but spirit. For some reason, this is the plight of most humans. Cut off from their true nature to live twisted existences all their lives. So be it!

And just because the word 'occult' means hidden from the view of the average Joe, that doesn't necessarily mean that we should persue that knowledge for ourselves. Some things are meant to be hidden from view, I believe, for good reason, whether we understand them or not.

People who persue the spiritual path in ernest are fast tracking their evolution...
And some of the perks they sometimes bump into along the way are glimpses into the future..... and hints to the inherent destiny of our race......

The spiritual path is life at its fullest and most sublime..... aspirants choose to consiously unfold themselves instead of stumbling around as if half blind and stupified..... staggering back and forth in their evolution and only really learning from life's disasters.....
That which is occult is not (generally speaking) hidden by anyone's choice or by the nature of these truths....
They are hidden simply because they are subtle, counter to current social trends and because what lies ahead has not been revealed by way of an expanded conciousness for the average man......

This information does not deserve to be hidden....
The catipillar sholuld not fear the butterfly.....

Roughly translated from dutch.
If you shut out "evil" you'll also miss out on many "good" things.

It's part of duality. One can not excist without the other.

When I say that maybe SOME knowledge should NOT be generally accessible to all, I am not being in denial, as some have assumed.


Let me try and explain my position with two examples which I think most people would understand:

One:

Before I got on the net, I used to hear some of my mates describing sites such as Rotten.com, where you can see all manner of gross injuries, etc. Now, out of curiosity, I suppose, I said to myself that if I ever got on the net, I'd look up such sites out of morbid curiosity......which I did.

However, having seen such things, I am now convinced that I don't, in fact, want to see such things.....some knowledge is better left alone.

Example two:

Most people, (including myself), see the internet as a good thing. Why?....because it gives us access to a lot of knowledge that we wouldn't have otherwise had.

But, take it to it's logical conclusion, and peer into the future, where top visionaries foresee a time when the internet will be purely wireless.....through some kind of radio computer/neural interface....so that people will eventually be able to surf the net just by thinking about it, much like modern jet fighter pilots are able to control on-board weapons systems just by thinking the commands, or by speaking them out loud.

This may seem like a utopian freedom scenario for a lot of people. But I see it as a dangerous escalation which we will ultimately not be able to control. I see it as potentially leading to an 'information overload', and taking us down certain roads that will very likely turn out to be detrimental to our mental, spiritual and physical well-being.

So I maintain that is is perhaps better not to know everything, and all knowledge should not be accessible to all people.

It is better to remain simple in life, and not know too much. Not all information is good, or good for us.

Originally posted by True Tao

I found this thread very interesting and enjoyed all the stories told but I have one question and if this has been asked I apologize, has anyone thats had a OOBE been able to verify it? As in, going out while OBE and seeing someones license plate that you have never saw before then confirming it later? Thanks

Yep, actually, that is how I knew for sure what I was doing. It started with little things like noticing the time was the same when I woke up as it was when I came back. Then there was a time i went to a lady's house and stood in here hallway infront of the bedroom doors. A couple men broke into her house and came up the stairs. SHe opened her door and looked right at me, then at the men. Anyway, long story short, after I woke up which was right after I came back, I couldnt get back to sleep. Maybe an hour later, I turned on the morning news, and there she was. They were telling about how her house got broke into by a few men and how odd it was because they ended up not harming the lady and her kids. It was just a head spinner for me to see the proof that indeed I was there.

And there was another one a couple evenings ago. It was very cool, because I had not fallen asleep yet. I went to see the storms roll in and saw tornados forming. It was the first time I had controll, but I must say, moving about was like learning how to write with your left hand (if your a righty). Came back and tried to tell my hubby that there were going to be a lot of tornados that night, but he was already sleeping. Anyway, woke up the next a.m. to see on the news how many there were in that same area durning the same time.

It comes down to personal responsibillity. You're responsible yourself with what you go see and do afterwards with the new experience knowledge. You can decide not to act upon it if you so choose.

I personally get tired of people who can not grasp that basic understanding. Not personally aimed at anyone btw.

High all. Only read a couple of pages.

This is just a bookmark for future reference.

I saw around corners and over hills very clearly in the 1990's. The reason for the success was that my life was on the line every time I blindly pulled out into oncoming traffic to pass another vehicle.

There were as many times that I saw traffic coming and waited till I saw it was safe to pass as I saw a clear road with no traffic.

When I saw a clear road, I would do a blind pass. I made a mistake of doing this with my wife in the car. She was screaming that I was trying to kill her and I was screaming the road is clear. It was quite a thing.

The point of this story is to say that you need to be 100% committed to your target and trust your results without question. Then you will have 100% accuracy. That is it. The prayer/meditation thing is to get you into the supernatural side of your brain instead of the here and now/ touch and see with only eyes side. You need to activate the right side of your brain.

I can pinpoint radar traps on my route.

I have avoided several car wrecks by looking a few miles ahead on my route and identifying potential collission sites.

In fact you can plan out your walk in this 3D world in a way to avoid many of the pitfalls we sometimes seem to fall into.

Is it God vrs. Devil?

The bible has been tampered with in a way that controls its believers to do the will of the church. The original intent by Jesus's disclosure was to help us understand, not tie us up, like most religious dogmas promote.

All of the Prophets in the Bible were remote viewers. There are a lot of other things that don't seem to add up and I think this is where people get the idea that it just isn't right. They throw out the whole thing because they found some things that don't add up.

Jesus said you could move a mountain if you thought about it and believed in yourself. People thought this was a parable, but I believe he was talking about reality. That is why they didn't change this text. IMHO...

There are plenty of good people who have been hoodwinked by others with hidden agendas, faithfully entrenched in the belief that the church is evreything. Hummm...starting to sound like a preacher....sorry!

There is a ton more.

Originally posted by theRiverGoddess

Cug since I seem to be so in need of schooling here, can you suggest a book or something I can learn more on this topic from?

That's a hard one, I don't really know of a book that covers everything occult, however Modern Magick by Donald Michael Kraig is a good basic overview of Ceremonial Magick. Ceremonial Magick is the source of most modern occult teachings. (and it also talks about AP to keep it totaly on topic )

If it IS true that O.O.B.E is in fact an occult practice......IS IT an overall harmfull practice?

I would say it's not harmful at all if you know what you are doing. Jumping in the car to go get a gallon of milk is generally not a harmful practice. however you would not toss your keys to a 12 year old to do it because they don't know what they are doing. They may know the basics, but they haven't really learned yet.

Originally posted by Enyalius

Anything supernatural is automatically catagorised as occult, however I disagree with this.

Personally I believe that most of the "supernatural" stuff is well... bunk.

Originally posted by Mitzella
Seems to me almost anything can be used for both negative and positive purposes. Old Man you wrote about being involved with curses and such. I think we tend to get back what we give out and I wonder if your negative experiences with the occult may have been due in part to such negative pursuits?

Originally posted by theRiverGoddess
William L. Buhlman said severall times last night that all is NEUTRAL in the varied levels of reality, and it really is just our own perception of things wich will make things seem good or bad. It is all personal perception from a personal belief system....................and NOTHING is either negative or positive.

Originally posted by Old Man
Before I got on the net, I used to hear some of my mates describing sites such as Rotten.com, where you can see all manner of gross injuries, etc. Now, out of curiosity, I suppose, I said to myself that if I ever got on the net, I'd look up such sites out of morbid curiosity......which I did.

However, having seen such things, I am now convinced that I don't, in fact, want to see such things.....some knowledge is better left alone.

OK I grouped all those together for a reason. Knowledge is harmless, it's all how you apply the knowledge. Those photos on rotten were not taken to appeal to our baser mind.. they were taken to help someone (say solve a crime, or to better understand an injury).

Well I hope that helped/was understandable.. I'm sick as a dog today and I'm going back to bed.





[edit on 4/4/2007 by Cug]