Proof that Jesus and all Religions are False

Please note that Scientology is not a religion. They do not pray to anyone or anything except perhaps money.

reply to post by Neon Haze


In response to the Main post :
by Mitchell LeBlanc
mindofmitch.wordpress.com...


"I was directed by a friend to watch a film, mainly due to its discussion of a conspiracy behind 9/11. Some of you may have heard of, or already seen it before it is called Zeitgeist and located at zeitgeistmovie.com... I invite you to watch the film for yourselves, of course, but I still want to present my findings. Tied into the notion of ignorance by the author, religion (specifically Judeo-Christianity) is discussed in Part I. As I said before I invite you to watch it for yourself first, but here are my findings;

1. Horus was the SKY GOD in Egyptian mythology, NOT the SUN GOD. Ra was the sun god. Horus means “Falcon”. Eventually, yes, Horus did become associated with the Sun through his eyes. One eye was the sun, the other the moon – so he was not conquered by Set at night.

2. None of those were born of a virgin birth:

1. Horus was the son of Osiris (a male god of the underworld) and Isis (a female god). As time progresses we see that the Hellenic Greeks got Horus confused with Osiris, which would make Horus his own father… still not a virgin birth, as there was a father – himself, according to Greeks.

2. Attis was the son of Cybele… well he sort of had a virgin birth – His mother was impregnated by a tree that was inseminated by a creature called Agdistis who was the son of the mountain which was inseminated by Zeus.

3. Krishna was the eighth son born to the princess Devaki, and her husband Vasudeva, born on July 19th 3228 BC

4. Dionysus’ mother was a mortal Semele and his father was the god Zeus. Zeus had intercourse with his mother – so sorry, not a virgin.

5. Mithra was born from a rock. Do rocks count as virgins? 6. In fact, most ‘virgin births’ in mythology were things like “coming from the semen of Poseidon and the sea” or “coming from Zeus’ head” or a rock, like Mithra!

3. It should be noted that the Romans invented Crucifixion, it did not exist prior the latter half of the first millennium BC

4. Historically speaking, Mithraism was actually influenced by Christianity – though it can be traced to 2000 years before Christ, we do not start seeing parallels to Christianity until the second century AD, 200 years after the birth of Christianity, and 120 years after the last New Testament document was written.

5. Though traditionally Jesus is said to have been born on Dec. 25th, it is actually believed he was born in August. It is well known facts that Christians celebrated His birth on Dec. 25th to purposely compete with the Pagan faiths.

6. As for them all being dead for 3 days and resurrecting – I’ve found no evidence of this from a reliable source.

7. The “Three Kings” in Orion’s Belt did not appear until the Middle Ages, long after the appearance of Christianity – Scientists have yet to confirm what the Magi saw that brought them to Bethlehem, all we know is that there was Zoroastrian prophecy saying that a ’star’ would appear in the ‘West’ and lead them to the King of Israel, and saviour of mankind.

8. Notice, the documentary claims that a star in the ‘East’ – Sirius – aligns with Orion’s belt and becomes brighter… The Three Wise Men or Kings specifically came from the East, traveling WEST to Bethlehem. Why would they follow an eastern star to go west if they’re coming from the East? Furthermore, Jesus was born in the West of the three kings and not the East.

9. The “M” argument is just plain stupid! What are the Greeks and Chinese/Indians doing using Latin glyphs and Roman mythology and astrology? (Many Greek myths were modified by the Romans)
" will continue next post....

reply to post by Brothers

Religion does not always have to include prayer. (perhaps you meant worship rather than prayer?)

reply to post by willyt


Yes, unfortunately. The religious are BIG time pandered to or coddled. Otherwise we would be truly seriously focused strictly on things like UFOs and (very apparent) nonhuman visitors, and interacting with others in the galaxy, universe or multiverse. The National "Security" STATE wouldn't exist, and we would be concerned only with knowledge; not unproven beliefs. I hope that's clear enough.

(i am replying to the original post and i have not read the whole thread so forgive any simalarities from other posts) but this is a very intrieging post. maybe this ties into the whole ancient civilations visited by aliens theory. after all there are many different civilations with some very similar artwork and texts about unhuman like beings visiting us. maybe every religion was given a teacher or a "jesus" through some scientific alien abduction artificial insemination process. theres eveidence for everything out there. the hard part is putting it all together. i think that all the religions of this earth ancient and new all say pretty much the same thing but they are too hard headed to see that thier religion is just one piece of the puzzle and they wont work together to put the puzzle together. they just focus on thier "piece" because its shiney yay!

[edit on 05/24/09 by I_EAT]

reply to post by Neon Haze

"10. The solstice bit shows a misunderstanding of the sun’s movement. The Solstice does not always occur on the 21st, it can occur between the 21st and 23rd. The sun does not just sit idly by for 3 days, waiting for us to make legends about it. It will appear to rise the following day.

11. The astrology account is not very reliable. According to most astrologists, the age of Pisces began 200 years before Christ, and ended in the year 2000. It’s still rather confusing, and I don’t think they know what age we’re in now, but most sources agree that Pisces started hundreds of years before the birth of Christ. So sorry, close but no cigar.

12. It should also be noted that Hebrew culture did not embrace the Zodiac, and that Moses never used a ram’s horn – that was mentioned once in the Old Testament to signify the coming of the Egyptians. It should be noted that the Gregorian calendar (which our modern day one is largely based on) and Jewish calendar do not follow the Zodiac in anyway shape and or form, and that the Zodiac is not a Jewish symbol, and to Christians, has always been regarded as pagan.

13. The Symbols of Jesus coming from the Zodiac, while an impressive find, are not really based off the Zodiac. He uses one Zodiac illustration throughout the documentary; it should be noted that not all, in fact, most did not have the axis. The circular symbol around the center of the cross is a simplification of statues which show a halo/crown of thorns around Christ.

14. I’ve tried looking up this “Nemo” from Babylon – I’ve found no mention outside of a very bias archaeological report (by Murdock). In fact, Manou is the only one I’ve found, and he was an Indian law god around 1000 BC, 1000 years after Moses. Minos was king of Crete, who supposedly got laws from Zeus to impose on his subjects every 9 years. As for Mises… once again, nothing. In fact, the only mention of ‘nemo’ in a lawgiver sense outside of sources based off of this documentary is in the Latin Vulgate Bible, the Book of John, chapter 7, verse 19: “Nonne Moses dedit vobis legem et nemo ex vobis facit legem” Translates: Did not Moses give you the Law, and [yet] none of you carries out the Law? Why do you seek to kill me? - “Nemo” translates to “none”. This is the only mention of Nemo coming close to a lawgiver outside of the research in Zeitgeist. In Zeitgeist, the narrator claims that there is no historical proof for Christ, and gives 40 historians who he says do not mention Christ. - Josephus does mention Jesus Christ. - So does Pliny the Younger and - Tacitus, if I recall correctly. - Tiberius does too. His claim of Christ being the sun god of Gnostics is rather an idiotic claim; – The Gnostics believed Christ similarly to the same way Christians do now – except they believe he was a man, had babies, etc, and came after the first book of the New Testament was believed to have been written. Not only that, but he claims that the Romans used Christianity for control – this is not so, they had been persecuting Christians for 300 years. – In fact, Constantine used the Edict of Milan as a method of control – not Christianity. - He was not interested in uniting the Empire under one faith, but ending the bloodshed – which he did by legalizing ALL religions, not just Christianity. - And the narrator also forgets that the Vatican contributed vastly to the Renascence, perhaps more so than they did the Dark Ages, - and that the Christian Greeks of the Byzantine Empire were the most technologically advanced people of all time until the 1700’s. He points out the similarities of Jesus and Joseph, and yet, fails to realize that everything recorded in the New Testament is recorded to show Jesus’ fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies. He also does not name the differences between Jesus and Joseph – "

Originally posted by warrenb
reply to post by Neon Haze

 

I love it when, by using logic and facts, we can get truth.
It's funny that people will believe in a religion with all the mumbo jumbo, walking on water etc, but be very opposed to accepting that UFO's are real.

s/f

You know what's equally amazing, that people understand that Santa Claus (an omniscient immortal Father figure who is said to punish the wicked and reward the Good while living in a remote magical location surrounded by supernatural helpers) is fake but they will still buy wholesale into our shallow notions of God, they will follow all the rituals and rules of a religion based solely on blind ignorant faith and the fear of damnation...

I also find it amazing that a book like the Bible, or any other religious work, can make the claim of being the one true way to Salvation and people will defend it as such no matter how ridiculous, illogical and disturbing the material in said book is...

Anyone could write a book and say "This is the word of (insert name of appropriate deity here). It is the only truth." but try getting that through the thick skulls of these poor indoctrinated folks and they will fight you tooth and nail that they are certain their religion is the true one (despite having no evidence and going solely on their blind faith)

The OP is absolutely right, if there is a supreme being I doubt we're his chosen species and I doubt we'd be able to comprehend the vastness of that being...

reply to post by Neon Haze


"– Joseph was not born of a virgin birth, but of a mother in old age – is one example."

End of post

mindofmitch.wordpress.com...
by Mitchell LeBlanc

Parallels suggested about the lives
of Jesus & Horus, an Egyptian God

The Christian myths were first related of Horus or Osiris, who was the embodiment of divine goodness, wisdom, truth and purity...This was the greatest hero that ever lived in the mind of man -- not in the flesh -- the only hero to whom the miracles were natural because he was not human." Gerald Massey, author of "The Natural Genesis," 1
"None of the attempts made by sceptics [sic] to demonstrate that Christianity is false because it contains alleged pagan elements is credible or convincing." Unidentified historian. 2

Hosea 13:4:

King James Version. "...I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me."

Young's Literal Translation: "And I [am] Jehovah thy God from the land of Egypt, And a God besides Me thou dost not know, And a Saviour -- there is none save Me."

Most conservative Christians look upon the Bible as a "top-down" document: one revealed by God to humans. Since fraud, deceit, and lying are not attributes normally associated with God, they believe that the Bible -- as God's Word -- is truthful and accurate.

Many skeptics view the Bible as a "bottom-up" document: one written by human authors to promote their religious and spiritual beliefs. Such authors are quire capable of adopting religious concepts of other cultures and incorporating them into their literary works.

On this topic, we are faced with a stalemate. Skeptical commentators claim that there are many parallels between the lives of Horus and Jesus; Christian commentators tend to deny the existence of most or all of them.
Some skeptics may lose objectivity because they are motivated by a desire to weaken the claims of Christianity; Christians may lose objectivity because they don't want to admit that there such parallels could exist and throw doubt on the accuracy of the Bible. We have not yet found an objective, reliable source.

www.religioustolerance.org...

Debates about the validity of the
evidence for the copycat thesis

www.religioustolerance.org...


All people have to do is do a little research the problem here is, people are AFRAID of the truth for fear they might have been misled, or conned.

Proof? here at ATS? Nah... have we ever had any "Proof" for anything...honestly come on now.

Proof that 9/11 was an Inside Job.

Proof that Extra Terrestrials Exist.

Proof that President Obama is the Anti-Christ.



Their should be a new rule implemented here at this website when it comes to making a title. Don't use the word "Proof" unless you actually have evidence to support your claims!

Mind you I typically over look such threads with "Proof" in the title...but since I liked the Zeitgeist movie I figured ...I'd view this one, thus far I'm content....so carry on arguing about a pointless debate with no end.


-Peace

[edit on 24-5-2009 by Seaman_Richie]

reply to post by GorehoundLarry


Because sometimes that "imaginary friend" can offer a thousand times more comfort during one's time of need, rather than logic, which in certain cases can only exasperate a problem.

Look I'm all for the pursuit of knowledge and truth, I question my beliefs and those of the people around me every day. And I realize that the numbers seem to be stacked against believers. But why can't you just leave well enough alone? Yes the followers of many religions have done some terrible things over the centuries, but the vast majority (and I mean the VAST majority) of religious persons in the world are peaceful and happy. Their belief gives them something to be a part of; something bigger than themselves. And many times, their lives are so unbearable, that the only thing keeping them alive is their faith. While that might seem uneducated and primitive to some, to the faithful, it is like wrapping oneself in a warm blanket, rather than left to sleep on a cold and unforgiving slab of stone (not bashing logic, just seems like a fair comparison). These people are HAPPY, and yet you, and others such as yourself, seek to come in and shake up their happiness! Questioning the faith of others is good! But attempting to plant seeds of doubt in order to unravel something that you don't necessarily subscribe to is heinous!

There is so much beauty in the religions of this world, and I'd say (if you want to talk about numbers) that many of those other worlds out there probably have their own forms of worship directed toward whomever/whatever they believe created the Universe. And in that sense, aren't we all worshiping the same Being? Whether that Being is omnipotent, omnipresent, or hell, even CONSCIOUS will be debated until the end of reality! But the fact of the matter is that if someone has a desire to follow a path that you don't agree with because you claim to have evidence to the contrary, why not let them be?

All that being said, I do applaud your quest for the truth. Like I said, I question my faith and my proper place in this universe everyday. I suppose I just get frustrated with people who try to shut down an institution that has been a part of humanity since our earliest days. It's here to stay! Religion as an institution has survived thousands of years of advancement and regression, and yet, even today in a time of logic and science, religion still thrives.

Also, in a more personal note, this thread seems more about why Christianity is wrong rather than why religion as a whole is false.... just saying.

[edit on 24-5-2009 by dwiggen]

Originally posted by Dean Goldberry
reply to post by willyt

 

Yes, unfortunately. The religious are BIG time pandered to or coddled. Otherwise we would be truly seriously focused strictly on things like UFOs and (very apparent) nonhuman visitors, and interacting with others in the galaxy, universe or multiverse. The National "Security" STATE wouldn't exist, and we would be concerned only with knowledge; not unproven beliefs. I hope that's clear enough.

I've been studying all religion for 23 years and I'm missing where the pandering and coddling of simpletons occures. The late 20th and 21 century has seen an explosion of alternate thinking in Muslums, Christians and Judism. Is it possible that you're making these hateful generalizations for other reasons than because "the religious are BIG time pandered to or coddled"? The above 3 religions have nonhuman/UFO and multiverse concepts in all of their holy texts which stimulates much discussion on the subject. I'd have to say from my study on this very subject that it's probable that you're making emotional generalities not actually based on facts.
My what means are you able to draw your conclusions?

Originally posted by Seaman_Richie
Proof? here at ATS? Nah... have we ever had any "Proof" for anything...honestly come on now.

Proof that 9/11 was an Inside Job.

Proof that Extra Terrestrials Exist.

Proof that President Obama is the Anti-Christ.



Their should be a new rule implemented here at this website when it comes to making a title. Don't use the word "Proof" unless you actually have evidence to support your claims!

Mind you I typically over look such threads with "Proof" in the title...but since I liked the Zeitgeist movie I figured ...I'd view this one, thus far I'm content....so carry on arguing about a pointless debate with no end.


-Peace

[edit on 24-5-2009 by Seaman_Richie]

I'd like to second this notion...

reply to post by cancerian42

I didn't think this point would come up in this thread, but it is by all means true. If you want to go even further with this idea: no one really knows if anything exists outside him or herself at all. This world that we seem to be perceiving outside of us could really just be an illusion that is created inside of you whatever you are and everything is within you rather than you being a part of existence with limited knowledge, power, and presence. That would make you God. Fun!

You are asuming there is absoulutly no truth in this world and everything is all imagined. The only way we know for certain that we are real in the truth of death. Can we experience death, yes. Can God die, no. Atheists try to debunk Chistianity because they feel as if they have been lied to about there being a God, and they feel their only purpose in life is to take away the feeling of a purpose in life from others. It is very sad, but also true.

If you are ingnorant to something that is deeper that what you believe, you forget what brought you to that belief. All facts are beliefs, but not all beliefs are fact.

You have most certainly raised some questions in my mind, as I was not aware of the similarities between these religious figure heads. What's with the 25 December??

I was raised a Catholic as my mother is one and grew up strictly in that way; but I also grew up with the influence of my father who doesn't personally subscribe to any structured belief system, but certainly isn't an atheist, or even even agnostic. While I was going to church every weekend, he was showing me books about UFOs and paranormal phenomena, subjects which I have remained fascinated with my entire life thus far.

It is in my opinion that these are people who have descended from which ever place and attempted to hand us an admirable way of living. I believe that their initial concepts were simple, uncomplicated, and it was never their intention for these concepts of love, compassion, peace and equality to be turned into an excuse for war, for example. I don't believe that. Even Buddha instructed not to believe in him, to not simply take all that he said blindly as the truth, just because he said it was. The minds of humans have twisted and distorted what actually was, into their own hearts desires. That's not me being a die-hard religious fanatic - I mean, this is plain to see. So, in this way, I think modern, structured religion is something of a shadow of its original intentions, and what it, indeed, could be again - but I don't see this happening anytime relatively near the future.

I follow this line of thought totally - if I think of the gods in a concrete sense.
But I don't think that solidly about the Gods, as for me they exist in an abstract sense that springs out of thought itself. That spring that pours into my mind cannot be staunched, nor would I want it to.
I have no need to convince others of the reality of my notion of any God. I do not even fully understand what reality is, myself.

reply to post by pretty_vacant


December 25, in astronomical terms, is the first day that it is noticable that the sun - the light - is growing. It is the first day that is noticeably longer.

reply to post by Dean Goldberry


Systems derived by man, have the amazing ability to be understood by man. Yet anything that is put in place beyond man's systems and is not understood, is said to be false.

Even if the systems themselves are nothing but theory and hypothesis that are rarely fully understood by average people, it withstands the storms of doubt.

It even extinguishes any other system, that with further understanding could coexist with it.

Unbelievable the arrogance of man, to define the universe and it's origins only from the knowledge he learns from men whom he does not even know.

linkage between Krishna and Christ:
Many early Christian theologians noted the extreme similarity between Christianity and other religions such as Hinduism. a henotheistic religion, Mithraism an ancient Pagan religion, etc.
Eusebius of Caesarea (circa 283-371 CE) wrote: "The religion of Jesus Christ is neither new nor strange."
St. Augustine of Hippo (354-430 CE) wrote: "This, in our day, is the Christian religion, not as having been unknown in former times, but as having recently received that name."

Some early Christian leaders attributed the similarities between Christianity and earlier religions to a trick of Satan. They felt that Satan had created many crucified saviors, born of virgins, before Jesus in order to discredit Christianity's uniqueness. Others attribute the similarities to coincidence.
Some liberal religious historians have raised the possibility that stories of Jesus' birth, ministry, execution, and resurrection were copied, at least in part, from Krishna's life.

If a strong Krishna - Christ link exists, what is left of Christianity?
If one were to the Gospels the events in Jesus' life that seem to oA very human, itinerant, Jewish, rabbi-healer.riginate in Krishna's story, one would end up with a story of:
A very human, itinerant, Jewish, rabbi-healer.
A teacher who largely followed the teachings of Hillel -- a liberal Jewish rabbi from the 1st century BCE.
An observant Jew who had a special relationship with God -- a kinship so close that Jesus referred to God by the familiar term "Abba."
This is very close to the image of Jesus found by many liberal theologians, in their quest for the historical Jesus.

If the events in Jesus' life that appear to come from Krishna were eliminated as invalid, then most of the key Christian beliefs about Jesus would have to be abandoned: his virgin birth, incarnation, sinless life, crucifixion, descent into Hell, resurrection, ascension to heaven. Criteria for salvation, belief in the Trinity, the inerrancy of the Bible, the inspiration of the authors of the Bible by God, etc. would also have to be rejected.

www.religioustolerance.org...
A lot of you may choose to ignore these articles and hold on to your religious beliefs. Hey, that is ok with me, however I choose not to believe in everything that society has tried to “brainwash” me to believe in, just so the churches can keep pillaging people’s pocketbooks and spew hatred among different societies and start wars, its so funny how we are taught by our religion not to kill. However, we cannot wait to kill, and murder when our religious politician says to do so.

First off great post ay first when i saw the title it thought" here we go again another dude whose just gonna say F the bible and big bang ftw "
but you put out some good knowledge of what i always considered to be good. I am a christian i believe there is a greater being maybe not we interpret as God but close enough,

religion and the bible to me atleast is just a guide to help people live a righteous life and to love one another (kinda like Living a better life for dummies) I think jesus was like the others buddha etc. were people who just had a better understanding of the world in the general scheme they showed how to live a TRULY righteous life. Jesus says hes the son of God and people always debate that, but i ask you are we all not the sons and daughters of god, i mean the same begin that created him surely created us. just a quick thought