Proof that Jesus and all Religions are False

Originally posted by king9072
Yah lets just throw anything that can be proven out the window, lets all just rely on FAITH.

Hey how did the blossam goodidiot prediction go? I had so much faith, I hope it went well.

Sir the question remains, what kind of logic does one employ to prove nonexistence?

That is all I am asking.

Why can't they just use logic as something to believe in instead of an imaginary friend?

Here's a very interesting documentary about knowing by logical deduction and gnowing by intuition:

Dangerous Knowledge

In this one-off documentary, David Malone looks at four brilliant mathematicians - Georg Cantor, Ludwig Boltzmann, Kurt Gödel and Alan Turing - whose genius has profoundly affected us, but which tragically drove them insane and eventually led to them all committing suicide. The film begins with Georg Cantor, the great mathematician whose work proved to be the foundation for much of the 20th-century mathematics. He believed he was God's messenger and was eventually driven insane trying to prove his theories of infinity.

It basically concludes that people can 'know truths' that cannot be proven by rational logical deduction.

reply to post by king9072

Don't you think the Vatican should be using it's wealth to end human suffering and starvation? Rather than funding nice statues and buildings and pedophile rings?

Yes, in fact I do.
You’re presuming I have an affiliation with the C.Churhc.
I don’t.
And honestly, I think all pedophiles should be burnt at the stake - publicly.
And no I’m not kidding.
Forgive them, then burn them.

Don't you honestly think, that since they are the "closest" to god, they should be doing his work most diligently?

I don’t believe they are the *closest to God*.

Don't you think if there were such thing as an all knowing god, that he would take a moment to strike those down who use his name to further greedy, selfish agendas, or preach one thing one second, and molest little boys the next second?

How do you know He doesn’t>
You don't.
You can't prove a negative with another negative - or however that sayin goes.

Does he have any priorities or is he always on a lunch break?

Is that supposed to be amusing?

You’ve yet to address one question I asked, or, *ask* before you presume so I’m not going to waste my time answering something I’ve already covered.

As for brain washed, you’re nothing more, or less, than the other side of the same coin, in many respects.

Get a grip, your religion has more holes than a strainer, and they're all plain to see for anyone who isn't hopelessly brainwashed.

Ok, well, I thought we could have a discussion - less the insults and sarcasm.

By the way - You don’t even KNOW my religion.

What you have done is reveal you’re a very angry, bitter and sarcastic person.

Or at least your responses would leave someone to that conclusion.
I wont presume, but neither will I waste my time responding to insults.

peace

i tried to get this thread on track but that was hopeless from the start. this thread had a chance to be a non standard religious thread where everyone talks about whatever.

the points of discussion are available. we're not talking about abstract ideas here. most of the information about this topic is on the net.

for instance -

krishna advocated both slavery and war in the bhagavad gita. i'm not going to post the exact versus so just read it yourself.

krishna was familiar with all aspects of the universe including "aliens" and reincarnation.

krishna did not claim to be the son of god.

krishna gave a 3-fold path to enlightenment. the yoga of renunciation, the yoga of knowledge, and the yoga of action. (if i remember right)

krishna did not talk about an eternal hell or an eternal heaven.

====

buddha did not claim to be the son of god or a savior or a wise man or a teacher.

buddha did nto require people to pray to him or to any god.

buddha did not attempt to fight any money institutions or any institutions at all for that matter.

buddha did not believe in an eternal heaven or hell.

buddha did not present himself as the path to salvation nor did he die for anyone's sins.

buddha did not claim his right as a buddha because of his birth status. he earned his status over the corse of a 100,000 lives. the life he lived as buddha was a culmination of all of them.

the list can go on and on.

Do all the math you want and that reinforces my idea that such a tiny spec in the universe cannot be some accident. I consider myself a buddha-rasta. There are three rasta sects and I associate with the sect that choose jesus christ as the messenger. This being I chose jesus as my messenger and spiritually balance myself through daoism.

jesus was the son of god as we are all sons and daughters of god. god is creation and existence. god is consciousness. god is us knowing love.

jesus brought that message to us and man took his message as they did other messengers and used it for control.

I think more people need to focus on themselves and use the message to their advantage regardless if they are true believers, that is the problem with religion.

everyone has their ideas but do any of us really know. bless

reply to post by northof8

I agree, this is yet another bash Christianity thread.

No you are wrong! The OP has not “bashed” your religion, however, YOU chose to ignore the FACTS sometimes the truth hurts GET OVER IT!

Because Christian nations are the most powerful on earth people like to TRY to bring them down with their whacky theory's.

These are NOT theories.

If these threads were really about religion they would go after the most popular

Wrong again! The most popular religion to day is Christianity

Most Popular World Religions

Christians - 2,116,909,552 (which includes 1,117,759,185 Roman Catholics, 372,586,395 Protestants, 221,746,920 Orthodox, and 81,865,869 Anglicans)
2) Muslims - 1,282,780,149
3) Hindus - 856,690,863
4) Buddhists - 381,610,979
5) Sikhs - 25,139,912
Jews - 14,826,102
And... Others - 814,146,396
b) Non-Religious - 801,898,746
c) Atheists - 152,128,701

geography.about.com...

The OP is nothing more than one of the many trolls that hang out here and try to incite people.

That my friend is a lie, the OP was only stating historical facts! Were is your proof that the OP is troll, and he is out to incite everyone. I don’t believe you have read the OP article.

The transparency of this thread is laughable..

Yeah, and you are not laughing are you, in fact in your response you are very angry.

I coulda proven all that a little easier.

It's all down to EXPERIENCE. Honest. Be honest- How many times have you prayed to Jesus, or God, and got absolutely NOTHING? But bring this up to the churchies, and you'll get more reasons why than I have art doodles. "God has (insert any number of infinite reasons here) for the reason why you're (poor, lonely, miserable, diseased, whatever), and (insert about a billion reasons why) you're prayers aren't answered. Then, you may or may not get compared to Job- since he's the one who got slammed, supposedly. HOWEVER- the problem with that happy little story is a) NONE of us can match his mythical 'goodness', and second, the SOB was rich, just like almost any other character in that book. He came out even richer! ANYONE who is poor or destitute, or alone is treated with pity, scorn, and left to their own devices, with no 'divine help' whatsoever. Oh, they get mentioned, and 'oh, poor them'. The rich? They are basically treated to more money, more power, and more, more, more, more. The only reason you have all that nonsense in the New Testament is for the poor to not have a hissy- and actually expect a 'reward' AFTER they are dead.

I have personally experienced this myself. I am lonely, poor, miserable, and by all rights, and against all odds, I SHOULDNT be. I got fed all the reasons, I got told all the fairy tales. The whole "loving God" thing is a pile of complete crap, in my opinion. "Loving" could have done only 2 small things in my life. 2 tiny things. Not money, not power, none of that- and I was failed Big Time. And then lied to nonstop by his fanatics.

And I'll be perfectly honest.... No 'reward' when I'm dead is worth what I have been put thru.

I was raised christian. I continue to live my life based on those values. I no longer really believe in any religion as the definition of creation.

It really makes no since for such a supreme being to create us then punish us for truly irrelevant things to an immortal all powerful being. Even murder to a god would be meaningless. So why create us with faults then punish us for being imperfect?

The god described in the Holy Bible is weak and flawed himself. It has tantrums, murders us when we fail (which by definition means god created a failed Humanity) and then sends those of us who do not bend over and worship his invisible self to hell .

First of all if he loves us all, he would not kill any of us or send any of us to hell for any reason since he is essentially responsible and the creator of our behaviors through our life.

Unless he is not all powerful and Satan truly could win the war that is also invisible.

Sex is a sin out of marriage? Why would something so trivial matter to a God?

Is is plain an evident with the knowledge we have today to realize that religions of all are created by man kind.

Having said all that, I cannot and do not deny the possibility of a supreme creator, however I vehemently denounce all religion as false.

No one can prove whether or not some intelligent creator made the universe or not. Something came from nothing and it is just as possible it was a God as it could have been some exotic matter.

Originally posted by impressme
No you are wrong! The OP has not “bashed” your religion, however, YOU chose to ignore the FACTS sometimes the truth hurts GET OVER IT!

I don't know what I was thinking. I apologize. I didn't know you had facts that support non-existence.

Might I ask where you got these facts from? If something does not exist I am confused as to where facts could come from.

As one of the other posters so eloquently stated in his attempt to slander religious beliefs. "Did you get these from your imaginary friend?"

Facts have to come from somewhere my friend and from nothing comes nothing. So please do tell how you got facts from non-existence.

I can assure you, that if you got facts from non-existence, in fact there would have to be existence in order to gather facts.

These are NOT theories.

Really?

You mean you actually found supporting evidence of non-existence.

My friend you need to submit that to the board for a Nobel prize, you are the first person in the history of mankind to be able to provide evidence that something doesn't exist. I am personally glad I got to meet you here. You are indeed a special person being able to accomplish the impossible.

[edit on 5/24/2009 by DarrylGalasso]

reply to post by Neon Haze


Well done, Neon. I respect your research and the manner in which you compiled your information. Very insightful. You highlight a couple of my primary beliefs:

1. Religion is a convention of humanity, and is written about and serves to reinforce the nature of specific cultures, to the exclusion of others

2. The AllThatIs or whatever one chooses to call it, communicated with humanity and did so in many different languages, and this communication was interpreted within context of the writer and their culture

3. There are far more similarities within religions that differences. Look at Judiasm, Christianity, Islam. .... All have Abraham as their distant relative, and all have common characters, albeit with different emphasis and roles.

4. We are all one. Humanity is flawed and tends toward exclusion of others or revering their own and uses religion to make those judgements, and to affix the label of "others".


Again, I appreciate the time you've taken to compile these ideas. I think of all the horrors that have perpetrated against others in the name of religious judgement. If there is a supreme being or collection of entities that preside over this sector of the universe, surely they must be disappointed with what we have done with their message of love and forgiveness.

peace and lightness

Nice post OP but I just thought of something, though I'm sure there could be a valid argument for it. What if all of those "sons of God" you explained are actually all of God's sons? Who says God can only have one son? And since God is of no specific race, it wouldn't surprise me that all of those people are different races/nationalities.

Originally posted by believer81

Originally posted by Neon Haze

Now, you speak of arrogance in your first posts conclusion, however if you look at the title of your thread and then decide to bring in a mathematical equation based on conjecture to create "proof" is incorrect and could be a tad hypocritical

It's better than bringing a fictional book filled with fictional characters as proof to any argument, as you fools normally do.

You fools? You seem to assume a lot which doesn't help any argument you bring to the table. For the record, I am not a religious person I just really hate bad maths.

reply to post by wylekat


How about *That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger*?

I forgot who said it but people love to believe that one.

Problem is they refuse to believe the same saying when it comes from a bible.

Blaming God is a cop out.

Just my opinion.

peace

p.s. Your work here doesn't negate religion as false, Neon. Your work solidifies it as a common human experience -- at least from the perspective of a person who believes that the Is spoke to humanity in different languages.

I talked about this with friends of mine -- Christians who profess to be very pious -- and was accused of being a "universalist", as though that were a grave disgrace. I think I could do much worse than being a Universalist -- I could be a person who judged others based upon how their beliefs differed from mine.

reply to post by believer81


Agree. The OP's spirited writing is well done and thought-provoking, however a thesis of this nature could not be proven, as it involves human nature and judgement.

I think you have to agree, though, that Neon's work does challenge our concepts of sole propriety to God. I think that's a good thing. I don't think any fragment of the populace should ever believe their way is the sole way and all others are *cough* infidels or unilluminated.

You use Math to reveal the arrogance of man, yet by defining the Universe with a system derived by man is arrogance in and of itself.

Limiting the universe to math and the laws of physics proposed by man himself is the LARGEST display of arrogance I've ever seen.

Math and Logic are not the only things that bring forth existence or substantiates a belief.

Believing in anything without personal witness of scientific evidence of it's existence is faith.

This goes all the way to believing the events that take place on the other side of the world by watching the news and believing the reporter without having actually witnessed the event or even seeing proof that it even took place.

To believing that we visited the moon..

To believing in the photos we see from the surface of Mars

To believing in evolution, the big bang,

to believing in UFO's..

to believing in a spirit guiding god...

Belief has to come from a faith in it's a source.

You all have faith in something.

Your faith in any of these things significantly shapes your world and what you think of it.

For the many who have not personally felt the spirit and the voice of god and the guiding hand of his spirit or have had misfortune in your life that contradicts the presence of God, you are swayed to the belief in Man's math and logic and have faith that it is the true cypher to everything that exists beyond our world.




[edit on 24-5-2009 by manbird12000]

[edit on 24-5-2009 by manbird12000]

[edit on 24-5-2009 by manbird12000]

reply to post by ApacheJoe


The Catholic Church does not say Jesus was born on the 25th of December...the Catholic Church has a liturgical calendar with assigns feasts and saints days to the year. There are are day every year for different remembrances....December 25th is the Feast of the Nativity...the end of advent where we memorialize the birth of Christ...ergo Chist's Mass. Examples: March 17th St. Patrick's Mass, February 2nd Candle Mass...Candlemas. Christmas is a feast day...not an actual birthday.

Originally posted by silo13
Why was it important enough to you to go to all this word to try and discredit - or rather - *prove* Jesus does not exist?

Isn’t that just the other side of the coin from the Christians trying to prove He did?

Now, the Christians have a reason for *spreading the word*.
Obedience to God, Love of mankind, love of their Jesus.

What’s your reason?

PS - Also, unless you wrote all the material in the post - would you be so kind as to put some links in to where you got the information?

No insult intended but - some people call your post(s) *brilliant* - I call them *cut paste* and it’s only right you give credit where it’s due.

Thanks

I can't comment for Neon Haze but I will answer for myself. Religion is the single most destructive element of humanity. Religion is simply an excuse for a small group of elite practitioners to subjugate the indoctrinated whole. To do this, the religious masters ensure that the religion is impressed upon the young people from an early age. This is done using a book which can be used to justify virtually anything, according to what the elite want to achieve at that point in time.

For example. The bible is anti-homosexual. Because of this, christians will attempt to remove the rights of homosexuals to marry. Some preachers have more radical solutions. This is of course blatant discrimination of the worst kind. Lets compare this with what the bible says about adultery. According to the good book, adulterers should be stoned to death (the bible also says that homosexuals should be put to death too - Leviticus 20:13). So how is it that our christian leadership is willing to publicly persecute homosexuals but not adulterers. Funny that.

reply to post by manbird12000

I didn't think this point would come up in this thread, but it is by all means true. If you want to go even further with this idea: no one really knows if anything exists outside him or herself at all. This world that we seem to be perceiving outside of us could really just be an illusion that is created inside of you whatever you are and everything is within you rather than you being a part of existence with limited knowledge, power, and presence. That would make you God. Fun!

Neon Haze,

What you've concluded is not you're conclusion but what others have presented to you as a conclusion as much as many who are involved in religion. When dicussing the claims of God/creator of all things we have to transend the words of others and share what data you have that is original. Your breakdown is no different than someone quoting the Quaran, the Holy Bible or any other text, you took the words of others without giving the data of your own experiments, experiences and so on. I ask what help is plagerism when researching the greatest questions known to mankind? Food for thought?

w.