Question for Phage, Internos, Chadwickus and Easynow...

This is a great thread. All four of these members, as was stated before have taught me to look at what I am seeing with different eyes. Step outside the usual human reaction to become awe-inspired robots and try and place a rational explanation for something that many do consider irrational. Thank you to all of you. As for Phage he might still be trying to finish his "overthruster" so he can return to planet 10...

[edit on 23-5-2009 by djvexd]

I'm a bit surprised no one's mentioned the '56 Lakenheath-Bentwaters case, nor the '57 RB-47 encounter. Those two cases are by far the most compelling from an objective evidence standpoint. I'm also a big fan of Project Hessdalen and the UK equivalent Project Pennine. Though a bit lower-tech I also quite enjoyed Dr. Harley D. Ruteledge's experiment which was later documented in book-format, Project Identification. It's just ashame we no longer have government sponsored projects like Twinkle, Blue Book or the Canadian equivalent Project Magnet.

Sadly the remaining accounts are for the most part anecdotal, which I admit underwhelms me. Honorable mention of course to the '76 Tehran case and JAL-1628 incident (air/ground radar & air visual).

As far as visual evidence is concerned I've always been mystified by the old Nellis AFB footage (analysis).

[edit on 23-5-2009 by Xtraeme]

reply to post by Xtraeme


Xtraeme, nice to see you mate

RB-47 is a good one, along with Internos' excellent post on the JAL 1628 Incident.
My two standouts would have to be the Belgian Flap and the Valentich Disappearance. There are quite a few others, but the former is intriguing due to the myriad evidence, whilst the latter is just plain spooky.





[edit on 23-5-2009 by mckyle]

It's a tarp.

this thread was a setup.
the OP is in league with the mentioned people and it's a star and flag trap.


but good content in the responses and i was entertained
tho here have thome starth.

-

reply to post by prevenge

this thread was a setup.
the OP is in league with the mentioned people and it's a star and flag trap.

as far as i am concerned with your accusation here.....i really hope your joking ?

i have never even spoke to the Op of this thread (that i can remember) before this.



i will agree that everyone has contributed some of the best and most interesting evidence concerning ufology.

Well, this is indeed a great and interesting discussion, so I take this opportunity to add also a small contribution to this thread about an in my opinion very important Ufo case.

It is The Varginha Incident (Brazil) Date January 20, 1996 Location Varginha, Brazil.

Summary: In 1996 in Varginha, Brazil, during the course of several weeks at least two and perhaps as many as six alien creatures were captured or killed and turned over to American authorities, and a UFO may have crashed. Eyewitnesses described the creatures as humanoid and 3 to 4 feet tall. They had dark brown, hairless skin, big triangular heads with three short "horns" on top, and huge red eyes that were vertically oval.

All credit; www.mufon.com...

By BOB PRATT and CYNTHIA LUCE

On the night of January 13, 1996, the North American Aerospace Defense Command reportedly notified Brazilian authorities that it had tracked a number of UFOs over the western hemisphere that night and one or more had come down near the city of Varginha in the state of Minas Gerais.

Brazilian authorities were quickly notified and they immediately alerted Army units near Varginha (Var-ZJEEN-yuh).

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b16c7f34f78b.jpg[/atsimg]

It was the beginning of one of the most intriguing events in UFO history, the “Varginha ET Case.” Civilian investigators believe that over the next several weeks at least two and perhaps as many as six alien creatures were captured or killed and turned over to American authorities, and that a UFO may have crashed.

Eyewitnesses described the creatures as humanoid and three to four feet tall. They had dark brown, hairless skin that was very oily, big triangular heads with three short “horns” on top, and huge red eyes that were vertically oval. The arms were long and thin, the legs short and thin. They had no obvious noses or ears and only slits for mouths.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/118fa0e936fd.jpg[/atsimg]

The creatures weren’t wearing clothing and no sex organs were visible. They had unusually large veins growing out of their necks and running down their shoulders, arms, chest and back, making them look like weight¬ lifters.

The “Varginha case” is a complicated one involving a series of incidents that apparently began on Saturday, January 13, but did not come to public attention until more than a week later after three young women spotted one of the creatures in a vacant lot.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fa54ef0dceeb.jpg[/atsimg]

The young women had just finished helping a woman get ready to move to a new home on Saturday, January 20 and were walking to their own homes. Around three o'clock in the afternoon, they were passing through the Jardim Andere district of Varginha.

"We decided to take a short cut through a vacant lot," said Liliane da Silva, then sixteen, who was with her sister Valquíria, fourteen, and a friend, Kátia Xavier, twenty-two (shown from left to right in the photo at right, which was taken in the vacant lot by Vitório Pacaccini, one of the investigators).

Kátia was a maid for the woman who was moving, and the sisters, still in school, were helping her pack household goods. The three were walking to their homes in the Santana neighborhood just north of Jardim Andere.

The short cut took them on a narrow path through the vacant lot, which was then filled with tall grass and weeds. On their left was an empty cinder block building. When they were about fifty feet into the lot, something caught Liliane's attention.
"Look at that!" she cried.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b749ed26e4bc.jpg[/atsimg]

About twenty feet away was a strange creature squatting next to the building with its left side to them (the yellow spot in the photo below shows where the creature was crouching; note the same white paint mark on the wall in the photo belowe).

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f0057adb1f6e.jpg[/atsimg]

The creature's left arm was between its legs and the right was next to the building. Its feet were hidden in the grass, and the girls never saw the hands or feet.

"It had oily brown skin with big eyes and three 'horns' on its head," Liliane said.

The huge veins running down its neck into the shoulders reminded Valquíria of “a big, soft bull’s heart. We thought it was the Devil.”

To Kátia, who was married and had three children, it was “not a human or an animal, nothing like a monkey or anteater. We got a good look at the creature.”

They found it repulsive but the huge red eyes and the “horns” were what disturbed them most. They stared for a stunned few seconds, then screamed and recoiled in fright.

The creature turned its head and looked at them, seemed almost frightened and crouched a bit lower, perhaps trying to hide from them. The women fled back to the street behind them, turned right and ran away as fast as they could. They didn't stop until they reached the Silva home more than twenty blocks away.

After they calmed down about twenty minutes later, Kátia and the girls' mother Luiza asked a neighbor to drive them back to the vacant lot. By the time they got there, the creature was gone, Kátia said, “but we could see the grass mashed down and we could smell sulfur or ammonia.”

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/bcd5100eb77d.jpg[/atsimg]

(In the photo are, from left, Bob Pratt, Liliane, Kátia in yellow pants, unidentified boys, and Valquíria in blue shorts.)

News of the incident spread quickly throughout the neighborhood and about ten thirty the next morning reached the ears of Varginha’s leading UFO investigator, Ubirajara Franco Rodrigues. He was then forty two and lived less than a mile from where the women saw the creature.

He got a phone call from a shop owner who had heard that “some girls had seen a weird animal, like a little monster.“

The report was interesting but it meant nothing to Ubirajara, a lawyer and university professor who has been investigating UFOs in the Varginha area since the 1970s. By evening, though, he had heard more rumors and then began trying to find out what had happened.

A friend named Sergio who worked at a TV station helped him and it took them several days to identify and locate Kátia and the sisters. These were days in which confusing and seemingly contradictory rumors were flying all over the city.

WOMAN CRY AS THEY TELL THEIR STORY

“Some people were saying a creature had been captured by Military Police and taken to Regional Hospital, that it had a big belly, seemed to be pregnant and made a noise like it was crying,” Ubirajara said.

“We talked to a boy who said he saw the capture but his words didn’t make any sense. He was too childish and very confused.”

They tracked down a woman who also supposedly had seen the capture “but she ran away the moment we approached her. Her husband tried to convince her to talk to us but she refused.”

When Ubirajara (below) finally talked to the three women, they were still quite emotional about what happened.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cd889362e9fc.jpg[/atsimg]

All three cried as they told their story.

In the following days he questioned them several more times and each time they related the same details without variation, bursting into tears the first several times. He became convinced they were telling the truth.

The rumors continued. A nurse reluctantly told Ubirajara that a section of Regional Hospital had been blocked off for some hours the night of January 20, with access being denied to patients, visitors and even employees. Soldiers and Army vehicles had been parked outside, and unidentified physicians from other cities had come to the hospital.

On Monday the 22nd, all hospital employees were called together and told that everything that had happened that weekend was to be ignored because “it was just a training exercise for doctors and military personnel.”

Then they were told that if anyone (“especially that lawyer Ubirajara”) should inquire about it, they were to deny everything.

The creature was reportedly transferred from Regional Hospital to Humanitas Hospital, which is much smaller and is in a more secluded location. More troops were seen there.

You can read the rest of this magnificent case here.

www.mufon.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

New revelations about the capture and medical treatment of alien creatures in Brazil, January 1996
Injured Creature

www.ufocasebook.com...

A most intriguing aspect, which renews the picture of the Varginha case, is that this surgeon reveals he had an intense telepathic communication with that being at the end of the surgery. He has also made a precise description of the being, whose extraterrestrial nature seems beyond doubt.

www.ufocasebook.com...

Aeroespaciais (INFA). Mr. John Mack traveled all the way from the U.S. to Varginha especially to do a series of interviews with the three women who said they had seen the alien.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a66896dd02f9.jpg[/atsimg]

www.ufoevidence.org...



[edit on 23/5/09 by spacevisitor]

[edit on 23/5/09 by spacevisitor]

Originally posted by Chadwickus

So on to what I believe to be strong UFO cases
The strange story of JAL 1628

That's the one that gets me going. I even posted a thread about it.

The Best UFO Case Ever! JAL Flight 1628 Over Alaska



[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3b1e48a60c7f.jpg[/atsimg]

Japanese Airline 1628 Encounters UFO

It was just a routine flight. Well, not exactly routine... It was a special Japan Air Lines 747 cargo flight to carry a load of French wine from Paris to Tokyo. The flight plan would carry flight 1628 from Paris to Reykjavik, Iceland, across the North Atlantic and Greenland, then across Canada to Anchorage, Alaska, and finally across the Pacific to Tokyo.

The crew consisted of veteran Captain Kenju Terauchi, co-pilot Takanori Tamefuji, and flight engineer Yoshio Tsukuba.

On November 16, 1986, laden with wine, JAL1628 took off from Paris and flew the first leg of the trip, to Reykjavik. The next day, they continued, flying over Greenland and then across northern Canada without event.

Just after they crossed into Alaska, at 5:09 PM local time, Anchorage Air Traffic Control contacted them on the radio to report initial radar contact. The Anchorage flight controller asked them to turn 15 degrees to the left and head for a point known as Talkeetna on a heading of 215 degrees. They were at 35,000 feet and traveling at a ground speed of about 600 mph.

At about 5:11 PM local time, Captain Terauchi noticed the lights of some sort of aircraft about 2000 feet below and 30 degrees to the left front of them. He decided that the aircraft was probably an American jet fighter from nearby Eielson or Elmendorf Air Force Bases patrolling Alaskan airspace, so he ignored them at first. However, after a few minutes, he noticed that the lights were keeping pace with his own aircraft, which would be an unusual thing for patrolling jets to do.

These videos [of real ufo’s in my opinion] really stumped me.

I saw this film back in 1971 on TV at my home and it started my ongoing interest in the phenomenon.
Short piece of film from 1971 in England on how a ufo was filmed whilst making a farming program.




Concorde Video with UFO. [to bad it is not so clear]




Giant Ufo [mother ship?] filmed by Tim Edwards.




Object moves around the Jet-stream.
The video will start after the short message of the ATS sponsor.

media.abovetopsecret.com...




[edit on 23/5/09 by spacevisitor]

[edit on 23/5/09 by spacevisitor]

WTG OP! Seriously!

I was beginning to sort of drift away from any and most all UFO based threads that I've seen lately, as a lot were getting a little "out there" for me to stay keened to. I'm all for discussion about other life and possible visitors, but I just have NOT been able to understand the concept of some of the claims I've seen as "hot" topic threads recently ( I reserve to keep the details of such claims to myself).

Short and sweet, Thanks ATS for the great links and research that I otherwise would never know existed. To me, that's what this site is about, new information and ideas!

Perhaps next time, next subject, someone can pre set-up the original guest speakers of sorts, kind of like an ATS interview, as I myself would feel just slightly intimidated being put on the spot unknowingly But, you did in an welcoming invitation, and not a "come get some..." manner, so it is therefor just an invitation and NOT a challenge, GOOD JOB!

[edit on 23-5-2009 by Karrotz]

Hmmmm this is becoming a GREAT resource putting all the 'best cases' in one box... been waiting a long time for this resource...

My favorite...

Tallahassee UFO... I firmly believe this is showing the birth sequence of a "Critter" as you can see the red object moving around inside the gray object and near the end they are two separate objects. The shifting shape and translucency is more compatible with a life form than a solid spacecraft

Possible UFO Footage Captured in Tallahassee
10 minute presentation



Full Presentation with witness report
*** Part 1 of 2 - Tallahassee UFO ***

Google Video Link

*** Part 2 of 2 - Tallahassee UFO ***

Google Video Link

Covered in this thread
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Enhancement


Motion Tracking created by Majik Ninja from ATS


The Black Knight Satellite and the Space Probe from Epsilon Boötes 1927 reports are still my favorites

www.thelivingmoon.com...

Other than that my UFO section is way behind where I need it to be...

I need a secretary

I have been waiting for Internos's and Phage's answers, but I think I will stop waiting.

I do not remember seeing a photo or a video that got me "completely stumped", but a close up photo or video of a UFO interacting closely with some known reference could do it, that is why I am waiting for one of those to appear.

What gets me "stumped" is the UFO phenomena itself, in its whole.

The variety of the shapes and sizes reported, the way the UFOs change with the times at which they were seen, from the "globes, crosses, and tubes" seen over Nuremberg to the 80s cigar shaped UFOs and today's triangle UFOs, not forgetting the small round, bright objects like the one in the Gorman case, UFOs with many lights, few lights, no lights, making some kind of noise or silent, affecting the surrounding area or not, makes me think that we may be looking at different aspects or types of the same thing or at completely different and unrelated things, and that is one of the reasons that makes me try to understand each case on its own instead of grouping them all together under just one category.

reply to post by mckyle

Originally posted by mckyle

Originally posted by trusername
I'd just like to throw in my favorite links to Jaime Maussan and those 20 minute daylight videos of those huge flying dragon like things that give birth to all the bubble ships.

Erm, I think invoking Phage's name in the same post as Jaime Maussan's, might just be the trick to coax Phage out ;-)

Maussan is nothing more than a shyster. And I'm sure Phage and other's feel the same way.

Really? I'm sorry to hear that. He seems to have access to extensive videos from many many sources that he credits and he doesn't seem to claim any are his own sightings. If he is faking Everything, it's a lot of work and effort. But if some of them are easily explained, that wouldn't surprise me. I do enjoy that he asks for people to have shots where they pull back and show planes or buildings and he has a lot of daytime video clips. I would have thought these were preferable.

Maybe the "he's a fake" is a smear campaign, to keep people from looking? Or perhaps there was a "one bad apple" situation, but there are some other barrels of good cider, people are afraid to taste?

who knows... didn't get Phage yet though, anyway. Internos, must be very busy... sigh...


[edit on 5/23/2009 by trusername]

reply to post by ArMaP
The UFO phenomena is hard enough to draw conclusions from.

The UFO descriptions change over time and reflect contemporary advances in technology and understanding. Early 20th Century descriptions involved unusual 'blimps.' As airliners took to the skies, cigar-shaped craft were reported. From the 40s they became discs or Arnold's delta shaped 'saucers.' Since the late 70s, UFOs tend to be described as discs, boomerangs and triangles. Since the late 40s small 'orb/light' UFOs are regularly reported.

All of which leaves us no closer to forming a conclusion

I've seen two definite UFOs (with company) and still remain bemused by it all and open to explanations

Originally posted by mckyle
Jamie Maussan is nothing more than a shyster. And I'm sure Phage and other's feel the same way.

Originally posted by trusername
Really? I'm sorry to hear that. He seems to have access to extensive videos from many many sources that he credits and he doesn't seem to claim any are his own sightings. If he is faking Everything, it's a lot of work and effort.

It's also a lot of money going into his pocket.

I think Maussan may have started out as a true believer, but as the potential dollar value of that belief became more apparent to him, he compromised his beliefs.

The 1997 Mexico City UFO footage was proven to be fabricated after analysis by a Hollywood Special Effects Group (could have been LucasArts, can't be sure). And while it was never proven that Maussan was directly involved in the hoax, he did smile all the way to the bank with some $200,000 made from the hoax vid.

No smoking gun maybe, but just ask yourself who would benefit from such a hoax? The answer is the guy who could market it and distribute it: our very own Jamie Maussan.

Originally posted by zorgon
The Black Knight Satellite and the Space Probe from Epsilon Boötes 1927 reports are still my favorites

Zorgon, is that "27" meant to be a 57?

Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by ArMaP

 

I've seen two definite UFOs (with company) and still remain bemused by it all and open to explanations

I've seen something unidentified myself, over San Francisco from my living room window, 3 years ago on a sunny afternoon. It was like a pewter liquid ball and a red traffic chopper went over to take a look as well. It looked a little smaller than the chopper, but much farther. The thing that struck me was that I was frozen by it. I'm not unbelieving, but wasn't really into UFO stuff before (more into 9/11 stuff...). I knew I should get a video of it (and having just come back from vacation I had to run and get the camera and cord out of the suitcase etc.) But I was stunned and sluggish and didn't get it in time. I wonder if that happens a lot. Maybe from shock?

Anyway, after that, I've cut some slack to the people that at least manage to get something on film, no matter how blurry. It is a disorienting experience. I've never seen it again, but I was thrilled to see that it looked exactly like so many of the videos and pictures of the glowing balls (which I hadn't seen before in images... wasn't really looking, but I started to). And it really struck me how liquid it looked. I think one of the problems for anyone trying to see or record these things is our lack of reference and cognitive mapping and vocabulary for description or realization.

So one interesting question is, are we manifesting (or 3 years ago I might have suggested even inventing) these things to fit our expectations or are the science fiction art departments full of people who have had sightings?

The 1997 Mexico City UFO footage was proven to be fabricated after analysis by a Hollywood Special Effects Group (could have been LucasArts, can't be sure). And while it was never proven that Maussan was directly involved in the hoax, he did smile all the way to the bank with some $200,000 made from the hoax vid.

Well, I don't mind people making money off of UFO sightings if they're possibly real. ATS wallpapered in ads now and if it means it can survive longer and help us all keep up these discussions, I say, why not. The bad guys make money, good guys should too

Making $ for a hoax isn't right, so I'd like to think he tries to be genuine.

It wouldn't surprise me that Lucas Arts is always pushing the envelope for disclosure (and providing public cognitive reference when it arrives). I just went through a tour of their building here in the Presidio. And I'd be very surprised if there weren't several ATSers working there. After this thread gets the best ofs - we should have one for those with personal photos / video (or even self done computer images?) of their own first hand sightings. And no discussion - just stars etc. I'd expect pixar and lucas and dreamworks employees to shine here

post by prevenge

this thread was a setup.
the OP is in league with the mentioned people and it's a star and flag trap.

Oh my soul you are a paranoid, delusional sod, you know that?

I made this thread to determine which cased had them four I have mentioned in the OP stumped. Just like I said in my opening post. No stop being to damn idiotic about traps, witch hunts and what not.

Originally posted by mckyle

Originally posted by zorgon
The Black Knight Satellite and the Space Probe from Epsilon Boötes 1927 reports are still my favorites

Zorgon, is that "27" meant to be a 57?

I can answer that.

It is meant to be 1927 not 1957.

1957 had some interesting occurrences involving the Sputnik Satellite.

In 1957, an unknown satellite was detected shadowing the Sputnik I craft. It was in a polar orbit, something that neither the Americans or Soviets were capable of at the time. This object was dubbed "The Black Knight."

I apologise for being so late, I really couldn't post before. I would like to state beforehand that i don't believe to be better than anyone else here: i'm just some guy who loves the subject matter: and if one really loves, for example, his house, then he should NEVER allow the garbage to invade it. Since i love this subject matter, here's why i i try to find out the more i can about every case worthy to be studied: And NOT, i'm NOT happy whenever i find out that something is a hoax, CGI, misinterpretation etc.: actually, i'm not happy at all after finding a mundane explanation to (or "debunkig") something: it's sad, but all in all it's the only way we have to realize WHAT are actual UFOs, to get closer to the truth, to deny ignorance, to have a realistic idea about the actual dimension of the phenomenon: and to those who believe me to be some blind sceptic, listen here: i do believe in the existence of extraterrestrial intelligent forms of life, i have NO doubts about it, despite the lack of any conclusive proof. But to believe is VERY different from to know, and to base our thoughts just on our beliefs is way less intelligent than to base them on knowledge.
Now, the question in the OP is very straight,

Have you ever came across vids and pics that had you completely stumped?

and it deserves a straight answer. The Nellis footage is (in my very humble opinion) one of the best "stand alone" evidences, most likely one of the best ever: maybe many will disagree, this is just my humble opinion: the point is that nothing mundane comes to mind as possible explanation. Another very interesting footage is the one taken in Great falls on 1950:

The Mariana UFO Incident occurred in August 1950 in Great Falls. Nicholas "Nick" Mariana, the general manager of the Great Falls "Electrics" minor-league baseball team, and his secretary observed two "bright, silvery spheres" move rapidly over the city's empty baseball stadium. Mariana used his camera to film the objects; the film was one of the first ever taken of a UFO. The incident received widespread national publicity and is regarded as one of the first great UFO incidents in the United States. In 2007, the Great Falls White Sox were renamed as the Great Falls Voyagers to commemorate this event. The team logo features a green alien in a flying saucer.

www.ufologie.net...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

Do not start to analyze this: it is merely a MPEG compressed file. Analysis have already been performed by experts commanded by USAF, (read about it in this file) those analysis were done on the original photographic movie.

Right click the link and save it on your local hard disk for a comfortable view:
Location: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Date: August 05, 1950
From: Nick Mariana
Source: TNT TV
Size: 583 KB
Length: 10 sec
Format: MPEG

Download

Obviously there is more footage. Here is a "second film" I located. Did I find again the images suppressed by the Air Force?
Right click the link and save it on your local hard disk for a comfortable view.

Download 2

Some other visual evidences look to be negligible at first glance, but once you put them in their real contest, they raise to some higher level:
a good example is the picture of the triangle taken in Petit Rechain on 1989 and kindly posted by easynow at page # 1.
The photo by itself wouldn't be impressive, but after you put it in its own contest then it can be considered extraordinary.
Another example is the video taken in Parma on August 10, 2007:

It wouldn't be that great evidence, if it wasn't about a MASS sighting:

and basically everything mundane was ruled out: since the police was alerted, investigations were made and the presence of military airplanes dropping flares was ruled out, as well as you can obviously rule out sky lanters and many, many other possible explanations.
Basically, the lights appeared from nowhere and vanished to nowhere: and during their apparition they looked to be "nailed" in the sky.

Another interesting visual evidence are the photos taken by William Rhodes from Phoenix, AZ on July 7, 1947 (the same day of the Roswell's crash):

1947-July 7- William Rhodes of Phoenix, Arizona allegedly saw a disk circling his locality during sunset and took two photographs. The resulting pictures show a disk-like object with a round front and a square tail in plan form. These photographs have been examined by experts who state they are true photographic images and do not appear to be imperfection in the emulsion or imperfections in the lens. Often called the "Roswell UFO." some info taken from: www.nicap.org

www.ufocasebook.com...

These images, often called "the Roswell craft" photos, (as it is widely reported that the Roswell craft was not a saucer, but a "delta" winged craft) appeared in several Southwestern newspapers around the time of Arnold's sighting and match his basic description of a heel shaped, domed flyer; These images were photographed the same day as the Roswell crash which took place in the evening of July 7, 1947, just one state away, in New Mexico.

www.rense.com...

Although the reliability isn’t quite as high as the pictures taken in McMinnville, two shots taken in Phoenix do rank right up there. William A. Rhodes, a self-employed scientist living in Phoenix, reported that he had taken what might be considered the first good photographs of one of the flying discs. Rhodes said he had been on his way to his workshop at the rear of his house at the rear of his house when he heard a distinctive "whoosh" that he believed to be from a P-80 "Shooting Star" fighter jet. He grabbed his camera from the workshop bench and hurried to a small mount in his backyard. The object was circling in the east about a thousand feet in the air.

www.theufochronicles.com...

On July 7, 1947, William Rhodes took photos of an unusual object over Phoenix, Arizona.[45] The photos appeared in a Phoenix newspaper and a few other papers. According to documents from Project Bluebook, an Army counter-intelligence (CIC) agent and an FBI agent interviewed Rhodes on August 29 and convinced him to surrender the negatives. The CIC agent deliberately concealed his true identity, leaving Rhodes to believe both men were from the FBI. Rhodes said he wanted the negatives back, but when he turned them into the FBI the next day, he was informed he wouldn't be getting them back, though Rhodes later tried unsuccessfully.[46][47] The photos were extensively analyzed and would eventually show up in some classified Air Force UFO intelligence reports.

www.thepetitionsite.com...

www.roswellproof.com...

UNIDENTIFIABLE OBJECTS,
WILLIAMS FIELD, CHANDLER,
ARIZONA.

14 July 1947

MEMORANDUM FOR THE OFFICER IN CHARGE:

On 8 July 1947, this Agent obtained pictures of unidentifiable objects, (Exhibits 1 and 2) from the managing editor of the Arizona Republic newspaper. The pictures were taken by Mr. Williams Rhoads, 4333 N. 14th St., Phoenix, Arizona, at sunset, on 7 July 1947. The subject object flew at unconveivable speeds, making three circles in the vicinity of Mr Rhoads' home. The pictures were taken with a box camera, size 620. The photograph (Exhibit 1) was taken at as the object passed in front of Mr. Rhodes, and Exhibit 2 as the object turned towards Mr. Rhoads. The height of the object was estimated at 1000 feet.

AGENT'S NOTES: See Exhibit 1 and 2, photographs of unifentifiable objects, enlarged aproximately 20 times. No further reports have been received by this office of objects seen by military personnel.

Lynn C. Aldrich, Special Agent, EIC - AAF, FDTRC.

www.rr0.org...


www.rr0.org...



Maybe this sighting was unrelated to the one of Roswell, but there's a very interesting resembleance with what was sighted by Kenneth Arnold:


Another interesting video would be the one taken in Kibbutz Hatzor, Israel, on 1996:

If there were some grounded points of reference, then this video would be extremely interesting:
in this screenshot (showing Bruce Maccabee) there's something that looks to be some grounded lights:

but if there isn't any point of reference, the video would fall into the "inconclusive evidences" basket.
Also the "Battle of L.A."


These are just examples, and as we can see some informations are always needed: a video, or a picture by themselves will hardly prove anything: and now everything is getting even more complicated:
too many attention seekers with much time to waste are invading the internet with hoaxes: now there's photoshop, Vue, Maya, Blender, After effects etc: almost everyone can hoax an ufo video/picture. While before, there were basically two ways to hoax them: double exposure or models.
This is why we should (in my humble opinion) always talk about cases, not just videos or pictures. An anonymous video upped to YouTube should never be taken seriously unless corroborated by something else: media coverage and/or multiple (and reliable) witnesses, and/or radar tracking etc...

Another interesting case with visual evidence is The 1978 Kaikoura UFO sightings







Paradoxically enough, the (in my humble opinion) best cases are not corroborated by any visual evidences, i will mention just some of them:


The strange story of JAL 1628
The Height 611 UFO Crash
The 1976 Teheran UFO incident
The Coyne incident, Mansfield, Ohio, 1973
The RB-47 UFO Encounter | 1957

As said, my humble opinion is no more value than anyone else's one, every member can be a very precious resource: some of my favourite posters are ArMaP and IsaacKoi,
but also the contribute of people like Mikesingh (for example), who spend much time and puts much efforts in order to share their stuff, is indispensable: this is what makes ATS unique.

Originally posted by Molan27
Also isn't Internos the guy who runs ufoskeptic?? I could be wrong..

No, i'm not.

Thanks to the OP for this thread, and to all those who added their valuable contribution.


[edit on 24/5/2009 by internos]