Here Are a Few of the Torture Photos Obama Doesn't Want You To See

Originally posted by Chance321
I don't have a problem with the photos, I mean all their limbs are attached, they still have their heads where their supposed to be. So what's the problem?

The Problem?


People like you.

I don't know I think I asked a reasonable and rational question, are these the photos?

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

I never said they WERE the photos... show me where I did?


I said they are REPRESENTATIVE of the photos...

allrighty, then we need to verify that these are the ones Obama wont release, the OP claims they are.

I just like details, I am weird like that.

This is one more reason the US is considered the Great Satan. Not only is it graphic it appears to be unjust. Some of these or all have not had a trial to determine their guilt or involement.

I think this is called a War Crime. Why hasnt the UN acted on this? Does anyone wonder?

These guys should be held liable under the treaty of "The Hague Conventions" and punished accordingly. It appears the world has turned it's back on humanity.

[edit on 14-5-2009 by wonderworld]

[edit on 14-5-2009 by wonderworld]

[edit on 14-5-2009 by wonderworld]

reply to post by HunkaHunka

HunkaHunka, you assume based on some anonymous photos that are undated, unidentified (although they look like Abu Graib), that we in the US are above that.

If they are of Abu Graib, then is a non-issue.

I've seen guys on a Friday night get their asses whipped worse than this, just for messing with another's girlfriend, or spilling his beer.

But if I needed to get information, and I was certain that a group had information that could save American lives, even one single American life, I could do some things that you never would imagine.

I rather do what is necessary to save American lives, than to get caught up in niceties.

Most of these guys were caught ambushing our guys. Most were non-uniformed combatants, and I wouldn't give a flying rat's fuzzy butt if they fed them through a wood chipper.

The difference between us is that you rather bury Americans just so you can stand on a nebulous principle that you would not be participating in at any level anyway.

reply to post by dooper


I really don't care what these people were suspected of doing.

We have LAW for a reason. Most of those guys who you mention seeing get their butt beat on a friday night are simply victims of ASSAULT and BATTERY.

Do you not understand what LAW is?

LAW is not simply a nicety... it is LAW.

Unless of course you are a criminal. Because that is what you are encouraging. Criminals believe that LAW doesn't apply... they feel Justified. Yet they are still criminals. And whoever perpetrated these acts are in fact Criminals.

[edit on 14-5-2009 by HunkaHunka]

OK a couple of observations. First off, who said Obama was trying to suppress these pictures other than the blog? Secondly:

Obama has changed his mind, and is now trying to prevent the release of the torture photos.

Here are just a few of the photos he doesn't want you to see (leaked to the Sydney Morning Herald several years ago)

Um, isn't that like locking the barn after the horse got out?

Lastly, let's look at the pics. Pic one, could be anyone anywhere. Pic 2 & 3, could be anywhere. Pic 4, looks like someone giving medical care. Pic 5, maybe something there, maybe not. Pic 6, looks like shrapnel wounds to me. They blow things up in jails?

Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth
We expect that kind of action from them, which is entirely why the West is currently engaged in occupation of several Muslim countries right now.

You could expect that kind of action from any human being with any sense of dignity in the face of a foreign army invading your country and killing your family, for ANY reason. I know for a fact that if my children were blown to bits by a bomb, I don't care who they were aiming for, I would want to hurt them, and hurt them SO bad. If I got ahold of one, I would want to find ways to keep them alive longer, so I could hurt them for longer. I know, I'm evil...but honest.

reply to post by intrepid


Pic 2 is def a prison. People are definitely piled on the floor and shackled. And someone is definitely punching them.


As I mentioned, I'm not sure these are "THOSE" photos... but they are representative of what those which we have already seen.

All the more reason Obama should release the photos.. to clear the air.



[edit on 14-5-2009 by HunkaHunka]

This is a question of a nations moral compass.

What does the USA want to project to the world as far as our treatment of prisoners of war.

Are we not human? This country has a long and horrible reputation for what atrocities it has hoisted on people throughout it's history.

From the Trail of Tears to Japanese Internment Camps our nation has been host to genocide to mistreatment of it's own citizens.

We shout of our benevolence, but in practice we show our malevolence to mankind.

We should be better as a nation. Our code of conduct towards others should be an example for the world to follow. We demean ourselves with this behavior to our enemy.

In war your enemy is an honored adversary. Yes your enemy is out to kill you but if you do not kill them and take them as prisoners, honor dictates that you treat your foe with the utmost respect. He has just lost all honor by being captured by you. The least you can do for his shame is to make him comfortable.

In the gentile treatment of a prisoner, a captive will be much more likely to share real information. A mistreated, or tortured individual will say anything they think you want to hear in order for the pain to stop. Information gathered from someone under this duress is likely to be flawed.

During the first gulf war there were many Iraqi military personnel that simply surrendered at first chance, It was their belief that Americans would treat them better as prisoners than they were currently being treated under Saddam Hussein.

It also boils down to the simple fact that the enemy of today may be your ally tomorrow. It could arise that one day a mutual enemy may come against both of your nations. How willing do you think your shaky allies troops will be to fight with your country if they themselves were mistreated by the men they will fight beside?

The USA should be better than this. We should be the example for the world to follow. We should be the icon of what it means to be free. With that freedom we should also be what the world strives for in all it's examples.

This is not something that the world should know us for.

To dishonor a noble enemy is to dishonor ourselves.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Pic 2 is def a prison. People are definitely piled on the floor and shackled. And someone is definitely punching them.

Oh I know. I work in a jail, seen it before. My point is that you don't know what prison it is. Could be Walla Walla for all we know.

reply to post by intrepid


True...

I'm so torn. On one hand, I want everyone involved with this brought to justice.

On the other I can understand one's reason not to release the photos. But, if we wont release the photos that means they are HORRIBLE.

So I'm back to my first point... release them if it allows us to prosecute EVERYONE involved, up to and including the top and bottom of the chain of command.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Pic 2 is def a prison. People are definitely piled on the floor and shackled. And someone is definitely punching them.

Oh I know. I work in a jail, seen it before. My point is that you don't know what prison it is. Could be Walla Walla for all we know.

Pic 2 is Abu Ghraib, isn't it? That looks like the same guy, with that short haried female guard, that were in the first round of pics. It looks to be the same timeframe to me...

I can't believe there are people here who support torture and believe it is in the best interest for their country, my God... what is wrong with you!?

reply to post by dooper

Most of these guys were caught ambushing our guys. Most were non-uniformed combatants, and I wouldn't give a flying rat's fuzzy butt if they fed them through a wood chipper.

That is simply not true my friend! - stop lying!

Most of these people from the Abu Ghraib photos were innocent people.

Some of them, fathers of families who got arrested in the middle of the night on false information and ended up in the hell hole of Abu Ghraib.

Many were arrested when American soldiers broke in to their homes on weak information and were later then released after some brutal torture, when the Americans found out that they knew nothing

The enemy combatants that got cought found themselves on a flight out of Iraq to Gitmo, eastern Europe etc.

There were almost none of them that ended up in Abu Ghraib.

In the video: 'Ghost of Abu Ghraib' you can hear the testimonies from American guard personal who worked as guards in Abu Ghraib - hear their stories about the truth of what was happening in the prison.


[edit on 14-5-2009 by Chevalerous]

reply to post by HunkaHunka


I'm with ya there, hunka.

However, whyis there a need to publicly release these photos? Can't prosecutions be carried out by using the photos in a court of law, without making them public? Seems to me it happens all of the time, in murder cases and such. Only the jury sees certain items.

Saw John McCain on TV moments ago saying he agrees with the President on changing his mind and not wanting to release the photos. Sen. McCain now agrees with his former rival. It's must be getting chilly down in 'heck'...

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
So I'm back to my first point... release them if it allows us to prosecute EVERYONE involved, up to and including the top and bottom of the chain of command.

Like I said, I don't believe these photos are of new incidents. What was going on at Abu Ghraib was bizarre and disgusting, it seems the prison was run by some extreme S & M freaks. The definition of torture that we all debate is not even close to what this was. Interrogation, to prevent attacks, would take place in a room with one prisoner and trained interrogators, not prison guards. These photos of several men that are naked, tied together, being punched with hoods on, etc. are nothing but cruelty for the sake of cruelty, and obviously (to me anyway) feeding fetishes of the guards. It's sick, and pointless.

[edit on 14-5-2009 by 27jd]

reply to post by Chevalerous

Don't even try it.

We didn't go door to door picking up people for no reason. Never happened.

After time and again in a neighborhood of getting ambushed or sniped at, they'd give chase, narrow the area down, and lo and behold, inside, they'd find weapons!

And often, the guy was sweating and shaking like a dog passing a peach pit.

We knew.

And they knew we knew.

Guerrilla tactics are lots of fun as long as it's going your way. But when they'd shoot and run, and we ran them down, they were taken into custody.

And if they got some ass-whippings for their efforts, then, too bad.

And all these proclamations of being a father, or son, or innocent just picked up at random?

Our own prisons are bursting with innocent victims.

Give me a break here.

reply to post by dooper


Being innocent or guilty is not the issue. What is at issue is our treatment of them while in our custody.


We as a nation should not condone tolerate or justify torturing ANYONE.

These are not the principals our country should portray. It's morally and ethically wrong to do this to another human being. We should not treat anyone in our custody this way. We should be better than that.

reply to post by dooper


Just a hypathetical question, would you cooperate with the say, Russians or Chinese, if ever they were to invade our country in order to change the regime here, and went door to door looking to take our weapons? You are VERY vocal on the revolution threads about how you would never surrender your guns to the government, how is this different?