What's the saddest part of it all, in the moment of Obamamania, most will say "if Obama is okay with it I'm ok with it". These rules do not apply with ATS member, although i'm sure if you ask anyone through a non paradigm of ATS, you will see the rules apply greatly. In a it's to protect our country.

I don't see Russia doing this nor China. (Use that to protect the above debatable quote).

Sad, humans are they, humans are I, Why hurt I.

Also to point out, this is what 'They' decided to take pictures of, think of what they decided not to take pictures of... yeah, not a pretty mental image is it, now picture it a close relative, friend or family member, child. Didn't like that did you.

Flame me, but pictures are worth a thousand words.

Originally posted by Republican08
Also to point out, this is what 'They' decided to take pictures of, think of what they decided not to take pictures of... yeah, not a pretty mental image is it, now picture it a close relative, friend or family member, child. Didn't like that did you.

Flame me, but pictures are worth a thousand words.

That's the scary part. What arnt we seeing!?

Originally posted by Tentickles

Originally posted by Republican08
Also to point out, this is what 'They' decided to take pictures of, think of what they decided not to take pictures of... yeah, not a pretty mental image is it, now picture it a close relative, friend or family member, child. Didn't like that did you.

Flame me, but pictures are worth a thousand words.

That's the scary part. What arnt we seeing!?

Would you even want to know is the question....

While your asleep in a specific number bed, people are being mutilated, along with while your at work bored, or btchn about how bad the economy is, these atrocities are happening, and noone flinches, because they feel if these atrocities weren't happening they'd have one more thing to btch about.

For people to understand there ridiculous lives they need to step out of it, I for a feeling feel I won't be here much longer, I understand their pain and suffering, it's awful. Wishing death before life is something noone should go through.

[edit on 14-5-2009 by Republican08]

Why not show some pictures of our soldiers torn apart by IED's and suicide bombers as they work to rebuild stabilty. Or maybe pictures of our soldiers dragged out of vehicles and executed in front of cheering crowds who then proceed to play football with said soldiers heads. I'm sorry but these "torture" pictures pale in comparison to the evil done by the iraqi's. Get a grip. You think captured nato forces would be treated better by these people? Haha, they would be lucky to even see the inside of a pow camp.

Originally posted by RE2505
Why not show some pictures of our soldiers torn apart by IED's and suicide bombers as they work to rebuild stabilty. Or maybe pictures of our soldiers dragged out of vehicles and executed in front of cheering crowds who then proceed to play football with said soldiers heads. I'm sorry but these "torture" pictures pale in comparison to the evil done by the iraqi's. Get a grip. You think captured nato forces would be treated better by these people? Haha, they would be lucky to even see the inside of a pow camp.

Why not?? *SNIP*

They are meant to be the vilified enemy, upon which America builds its moral high point with which to justify the invasion of foreign countries.

We expect that kind of action from them, which is entirely why the West is currently engaged in occupation of several Muslim countries right now.

The second America's own nastiness comes out, you have one option: apology.

ANYTHING else means that you are, and I want you to hear me clearly, JUST AS BAD AS THEY ARE.

But no, you actually seem to think that two freaking wrongs have finally made a right.


Mod edit: Removed insult.

[edit on 5/14/2009 by Hal9000]

Why not show some pictures of our soldiers torn apart by IED's and suicide bombers as they work to rebuild stabilty. Or maybe pictures of our soldiers dragged out of vehicles and executed in front of cheering crowds who then proceed to play football with said soldiers heads. I'm sorry but these "torture" pictures pale in comparison to the evil done by the iraqi's. Get a grip. You think captured nato forces would be treated better by these people? Haha, they would be lucky to even see the inside of a pow camp.

And why would these people, be so angry and hell bent on revenge to do such things?

It must be horrible for them, to have an occupational army controlling their city, their resources and their economy.

It must be horrible for them to walk down the streets and see building after building demolished, or grave after grave of innocent people slaughtered.

They are killing us because we have killed their sovereignty, killed their women and their children and occupy their land.
They use what ever means they have to remove the occupier.

But who cares what happens to them right?, they are just ragheads, and we are the west.

That is as bold a truth as you will get. There is no other reason for them to kill us... I mean, before we entered Iraq, how many Americans were being torn apart by IED's, or beheaded by Iraqi insurgents?

That’s right.

All this murdering, blood shed and HATE from the Iraqi's.. started when we invaded their land.

stop pretending its their fault!

I don't dissagree that before our forces arrived there were less cases of ied and beheading related deaths amongst our soldiers. I was there and I knew myself we shouldn't have been. Did I have a choice? No. Do any soldiers have a choice based on thier own moral judgement? No. I left the army because of that war but I still had to take part in it. I took part in it professionaly. I observed the rules of engagement that had been drilled into us and foolishly I beleived the opposing force would too. I am not saying that giving a pow a few digs or getting them to pose for pictures is excuseable but I am saying it is nothing compared to the way nato pow's were treated. Pow's that were only there because they were told to be there and had no choice.

[edit on 14-5-2009 by RE2505]

Originally posted by RE2505
Why not show some pictures of our soldiers torn apart by IED's and suicide bombers as they work to rebuild stabilty....

That's where the disagreement is...
I'll tell you a secret...
Nobody in his right mind across the world wants the US to "come and help".
Or at least I -surely- don't want it.

TheTilde

(edit for grammmmmaaaar)

[edit on 14-5-2009 by TheTilde]

I'm really happy the pics got leaked. I was disgusted when Obama pussied out on releasing them because this country and the world needs to know what happened and what previous administration's crimes were. Not to excuse or say Obama is any better, I just think it's pathetic how Cheney is throwing himself into the public forum as hard as he can to try to suppress all of this and deflect and subvert any kind of responsibility for these crimes. I really hope this is like Watergate and continues to grow and grow until Bush, Cheney, and the rest of those evil #s wind up behind bars. It won't happen, but I wish it would.

Also kudos to the ATS member who said the pics would get leaked. I highly doubted they would but no less than 48 hours they found their way out in the Aussie press. That's why I'm here on ATS, some of best analysis and minds on the web mixed in with the looniest and most paranoid

The true horror of torture is not what it does to your body, horrible though it is. The real horror is that it rips your past life right out of you, it destroys your will and your world. The illusion that we all live in is laid bare. Your only protection is strong emotions....anger, hatred,love, duty. You cling to them as a drowning person grabs for anything that floats. You think that you can be brave, that you can withstand the pain......they make it worse. Like fire that won't stop burning, demons that won't remove the burning brands from your flesh even after you have told them everything you know.......or make up. I will not support a government that fulfills the prophecy of becoming the "Great Satan". The concept and idea of AMERICA still burns in my soul. We are the good guys. We do not torture our own kind......or any other kind. No Election gives anyone the "right" or "authority to torture, for any reason. What happened? You guys run out of truth serum?

I seriously wish all this whining about waterboarding would stop... Only in the last year or so did the average, MSM brainwashed American even know what waterboarding IS!

Let me let you in on a little secret... Not so secret for those of you that have actually seen a field interrogation.

The waterboard is going easy on the "victim"... It's been around for many, many years.

Any of you seen a man "kneecapped"? Believe me, it happens.

I've seen intel extracted by state department or "no portfolio" types that I would NEVER want to meet in a dark alley.

There's a LOT worse out there than a little waterboarding... So I suggest that we all just leave the job of intel to the scary, soulless bastards that do it for a living.

Of all the pics I've seen of "torture" vics... I've seen ONE that was accurate so far. The rest look like combat wounds to me. IMO, this is just political hype to further tarnish the previous administration's policy.

What people seem to forget is that these "victims" at one point were carrying an AK or RPG with intent to kill YOUR brother, sister, cousin, etc. These are ENEMY COMBATANTS! Our ROE have already hampered us, now we have the troops being vilified by their own CinC???

I also am certain that regardless of what this administration claims, it's still business as usual.

The reason we (the world) don't see what Russia and China are doing is because they, unlike us, seem to have a good grasp on the concept of operational security. In other words, they don't give a flying crap about what the people think, they will protect the interests of their troops.

Don't misunderstand me folks, I don't condone torture... I am a realist. It happens regardless of our "shock" and "horror" at the "atrocities". It will continue to happen regardless of public opinion.

It's a front people... A distraction.

Sadly, We, the People are buying this hook, line and sinker.


[edit on 14/5/09 by cbianchi513]

[edit on 14/5/09 by cbianchi513]

A little "torture" is not okay just because there are sadisitic S.O.B.'s out there who get off on brutalizing people. There is no justification for torture. Where do you get that all these victims were enemy combatants? Not that that would make torture acceptable. I firmly believe that those who practice torture shoud be killed. Eventually these perverts will show up in your neighborhood and be a danger to the community, the children and even their own families.

That is as bold a truth as you will get. There is no other reason for them to kill us... I mean, before we entered Iraq, how many Americans were being torn apart by IED's, or beheaded by Iraqi insurgents?

That’s right.

All this murdering, blood shed and HATE from the Iraqi's.. started when we invaded their land.

There was no reason for Iraq to invade its neighbors or fire SCUDS into Israel. They are certainly not innocent.

And how about all the mass graves we dug up over there? Oh we really invaded a paradise. People at the mercy of mad suicide bombers. People just out shopping or getting married of burying a loved one. A nation at the whim of a mad man.

Yea we are real bad guys. We certainly provided Iraqis with a liberation. What they do with it remains to be seen.

This little waterboarding experiment amounts to nothing when trying to paint America as a bunch of torturing evil guys.





[edit on 14-5-2009 by Logarock]

Originally posted by debris765nju
A little "torture" is not okay just because there are sadisitic S.O.B.'s out there who get off on brutalizing people. There is no justification for torture. Where do you get that all these victims were enemy combatants? Not that that would make torture acceptable. I firmly believe that those who practice torture shoud be killed. Eventually these perverts will show up in your neighborhood and be a danger to the community, the children and even their own families.

These perverts have already showed up in our neighborhoods. Remember 911?
When they are not hijacking planes and cutting the throats of flight attendants they are at home beating wives, circumcising their clitoris, honor killing their own daughters and cheering wildly as they saw live coverage of people jumping to their death from the towers. Why there was just a guy out in California a few weeks back that cut his wife head off becouse she wanted a divorce. But this is their way we should try to understand the culture.

You would figure hard guys like this would laugh at water boarding.

I fail to have sympathy for any terrorists/enemy combatant. I also fail to have any ill feelings towards US soldiers working in the terrorist's prison. I was not there when the terrorists were captured. I don't know and I was not there in the prison where the torture (yes, I am not afraid to call it torture) occurred. A few pictures will not cause me to support terrorists and hate my own countrymen.