Why not just let the government take our guns? What's the big deal?

Originally posted by contemplator

Originally posted by LostNemesis
reply to post by LiquidLight

 

Going to agree with you completely. I seriously don't believe that the 2nd Amendment EVER intended to limit ownership to only certain kinds of weapon.

I mean, really, what the heck is an "assault" weapon? Bah. They need to back off.

Totally... I am considering building a 2KT nuclear bomb to protect my family. I have the right to such arms.

I really don't want to respond to such an ignorant statement, but I feel I have to. An AK-47 can realistically be used in person-to-person combat, a nuclear weapon not so much. Using a little bit of common sense, we can extrapolate what the spirit of the second amendment entails.

What you need to understand is that times have changed. We no longer live in those days. Times are different now. We are ready to advance as a people and live peacefully, but we can not do that when people like you hold the rest of us back by holding on to your deadly weapons.

Ah yes. A new pack of fiction.
You've been enlightened then. Better than the lowbrow, violent neanderthals of the past are you?

Times "change" yes. They get painted with a new brush and get sold as new product but it's all the same old song and dance. You will take the rights of the individuals away so that you can give total control to somebody else. This will allow you to feel smug and superior for a little while. It won't change anything though. Your new utopia will rot from the inside and fall back into dust.

Once again, you will forget history and it will be repeated.

We will never all get along because humans are still humans. Cultures, countries, races and religions will always be different enough to clash. If that's not enough, human greed and avarice will always cause somebody to try to take from others. Hipocrisy is in there too.
You dream of a utopia where there will be no violence but you threaten violence under the law towards peaceful people because they own guns.
You claim that without private citizens owning guns the world will advance and be peaceful.
Now, it is possible, but highly unlikely, that the world might go the way you think it will if you succeed in taking away my rights, but I think your logic leaves a few unsolved issues.

You haven't mentioned the criminals that own guns illegally. You haven't mentioned terrorists, thieves, murderers, rapists, abusive powers of politicians, law enforcement, military forces, and so forth. What happens when the law abiding citizens have no guns but the rest do? Will everything magically become sunshine and buttercups? Not likely.


I was unaware that as a law abiding, tax paying citizen with no criminal background whatsoever I was preventing the advancement and peace of the species. Maybe I'm just hard headed but I think I'll hang on to my legal rights under the constitution for a while longer. You see, I can own guns because as you like to say "It's the LAW."

By the way, If they do make it illegal to own guns, will you be one of those that runs around and kills gun owners so you can have a peaceful world?

reply to post by LiquidLight


Let's not forget that an AK can be switched to semi-auto or full auto or safe, where a 2KT nuke has 2 switches "you're alive" and "you're toast".


AB1

If we were all ordered to take away our guns the only ones left with guns would be hardened criminals (and I'm talking about the ones who will take a life to get what they want) and the government.

I used to think along the same lines you do but once I realized this, I knew it would be a cold day in hell before I let that happen.

When it hits the fan a baseball bat is not going to protect any of us from the madness that can occur.

With an unarmed society the gov't can really start doing what they want without fear that citizens will revolt because we will have nothing to defend ourselves with.

It's fascist AND communist gov'ts that take citizens guns away.

Originally posted by doorbell412
Don't you see? Guns have caused nothing but trouble throughout the decades.

Yeah. I see that you've not only been drinking the kool-aid of liberal propaganda, you must have downed the whole punchbowl. Obviously you have no grasp whatsoever of cause-and-effect, nor of world history.

Sorry, we can't go back over a thousand years and un-invent gunpowder. That genie is out of the lamp, can't put it back. Gunpowder was used in warfare long before anyone devised the first guns. The first military applications included solid fuel rockets and hand grenades. Explosives had already changed the face of war, enabling unprecedented territorial conquests, hundreds of years before cannons and hand-held firearms first appeared.

The cannon and the long gun extended our military reach, enabling those at war to kill and destroy at greater distances — which, again, took warfare to another level, broadening the field of conflict, making greater and greater conquests possible with fewer casualties for those with the superior firepower and strategy.

Most importantly, the advent of firearms permitted smaller details of men to inflict massive and disproportionate damage against an enemy — Cortez, for example, took 500 armed conquistadors and wiped out the Aztec empire. Perhaps a more pertinent example would be that of the comparative handful of armed American Patriots who defeated the British army in the Revolutionary War.

You remember the Revolutionary War, right? The founding of the USA? Can't put that genie back in the lamp either, chum, and firearms made it possible.

Guns have caused nothing but trouble throughout the decades? No, guns have changed the entire world, have changed the boundaries of nations, have created new nations, have often empowered the few to rise up and challenge the many with a surprising degree of success.

Originally posted by doorbell412
Besides, there's too many kids dying by playing with their parents loaded gun. By banning guns from the citizens, their wouldn't be any accidental deaths by kids who had their whole lives ahead of them.

That is the biggest pile of crap, perpetuated by the anti-gun fanatics and their ignorant followers.

Hate to be the one to break it to you, but guns are not of any particular danger to children — no more so than power tools out in the garage, or toxic chemicals under the kitchen sink. It's all a matter of parents keeping power tools and guns out of a kid's reach.

The fact is, guns are at the bottom of the list of dangers to children — A child is 5 times more likely to suffocate with a plastic bag over his head. A child is 40 times more likely to die in a car crash with his parent driving. Those stats are from the U.S. Census, not from any political action group.

So don't start that "save our poor poor children" garbage. It's a detestable and stupid lie.

Originally posted by doorbell412
And please, don't use that lame excuse "you need a gun to defend your family." That is the biggest bull I have ever heard. There's nothing wrong with a good old fashioned baseball bat to defend your family with or taking up some martial arts lessons.

Tell you what... Just as an experiment, I'm inviting you to come break into my home using a baseball bat or using some sort of exotic martial art, and I'll defend my home with a gun. Who do you think will win? Well, I can tell you right away that I'll win. Every time. If, on the other hand, a determined criminal with a gun comes and tries to break into your home, and you're defending with a cricket bat, you're going to lose. Every time.

Why do liberals have so much trouble with simple logic?

Originally posted by doorbell412
[Obama is] trying to make this country a better and safer place, and you people wanting to keep your guns aren't helping at all. You all need to get with the program, and if there is ever a law that bans guns, you should give them up PEACEFULLY.

Thanks for your suggestions, Adolf. However, I think instead I'm going to go out and buy another case of ammo, just because your liberal propaganda is oozing all over my favorite website.


— Doc Velocity

Originally posted by Neo_Serf
The history of gun confiscation in the last 100+ years has been a bloody one for those populations forced to give up their right to self defense. Millions of civilians, unable to defend themselves, have been massacered at the hands of the state, whos MO is always to disarm their prey before they enslave them.

OP shows great ignorance of history and human nature if he really thinks 'times have changed' and the same ruthless factions behind aformentioned slaughters arent still fully in control of todays power structure.

"hey everybody lets lay down our last resort means of defense, slavery aint so bad is it? besides you might poke an eye out!"

regardless, anyone who thinks obama is a force for peace and justice in the world wouldnt be worth responding to if that view wasnt so inaccurate and prevalent.

I appologise to the op for prickisness, but seriously man, you dont know of what you speak.

Oh, so now I'm the ignorant one for giving up my guns. All I am trying to say is that there can not be peace while you continue to cling to your guns. You are NOT helping the situation at all by doing this. Like I said before, all of those massacres happened in other countries a long time ago. America is not those countries. We are a developed nation.

In order for this nation to move forward, you need to give up your guns, plain and simple. Refusing to do so will just cause violence to you, your family and the military personnel just doing their job by asking politely to hand them over.

Just obey the law and everything will be fine.

reply to post by doorbell412


There sure as hell won't be any peace without guns.

There will just be predators and prey.

The weapons merely act as equalizers.

Granny can pop that crackhead right through his pumpkin, even though he outweighs her by 150 pounds.

Originally posted by doorbell412

Originally posted by Neo_Serf
The history of gun confiscation in the last 100+ years has been a bloody one for those populations forced to give up their right to self defense. Millions of civilians, unable to defend themselves, have been massacered at the hands of the state, whos MO is always to disarm their prey before they enslave them.

OP shows great ignorance of history and human nature if he really thinks 'times have changed' and the same ruthless factions behind aformentioned slaughters arent still fully in control of todays power structure.

"hey everybody lets lay down our last resort means of defense, slavery aint so bad is it? besides you might poke an eye out!"

regardless, anyone who thinks obama is a force for peace and justice in the world wouldnt be worth responding to if that view wasnt so inaccurate and prevalent.

I appologise to the op for prickisness, but seriously man, you dont know of what you speak.

Oh, so now I'm the ignorant one for giving up my guns. All I am trying to say is that there can not be peace while you continue to cling to your guns. You are NOT helping the situation at all by doing this. Like I said before, all of those massacres happened in other countries a long time ago. America is not those countries. We are a developed nation.

In order for this nation to move forward, you need to give up your guns, plain and simple. Refusing to do so will just cause violence to you, your family and the military personnel just doing their job by asking politely to hand them over.

Just obey the law and everything will be fine.

Seriously, have you read anything people have been saying? It's as if you're spouting liberal propaganda simply for the sake of racking up points.

[edit on 5/11/2009 by LiquidLight]

reply to post by doorbell412


your nation is undergowing a process of de-development - it is slated for a post - industrial future. read the writings of those who position all your presidents to power, including Obama, and you will find that gun confiscation has been a prime objective for over 50 years, and is a prelude to outright servitude in a neo feudalist fashion. These are the stated goals of the global elite.

This goal is obvioulsy not attainable with an armed slave class, hence Kissigers recent promise to the Russian president that "america will be disarmed by September.'

This is waaay bigger than the odd kid accidentally shooting himself. Youre willing yourself towards slavery and it is a sad thing indeed.

[edit on 11-5-2009 by Neo_Serf]

“When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”
How in the hell are we supposed to be Americans without guns? Read the Constitution! If you don't like it, move to New Zealand or England. I would love to meet the people that try to take my guns from me. I will not bow to any government where I have rights and grant permission to be governed.

Originally posted by doorbell412

What you need to understand is that times have changed. We no longer live in those days. Times are different now. We are ready to advance as a people and live peacefully, but we can not do that when people like you hold the rest of us back by holding on to your deadly weapons.

You can't really think that if 'The One' passes a law demanding all guns be turned in, that all the Mafia, drug runners, drug users, etc will just happily turn them in?

I don't believe that you really think that could happen.

You know the saying, I don't need to repeat it.

And yes, apart from target practice, my guns are for home protection. I'm the kind of shoot-first guy whose house you don't want to break into.

Yuo must live in dream land , you take guns away from good people the crooks will rule.
You need to check your info in, Vermont any non-crimnal can carry concealed no permit required.
There is no crime in Vermont, let a criminal do something there and he will get blown to hell by no telling who.

Originally posted by LiquidLight

Originally posted by doorbell412

Originally posted by Neo_Serf
The history of gun confiscation in the last 100+ years has been a bloody one for those populations forced to give up their right to self defense. Millions of civilians, unable to defend themselves, have been massacered at the hands of the state, whos MO is always to disarm their prey before they enslave them.

OP shows great ignorance of history and human nature if he really thinks 'times have changed' and the same ruthless factions behind aformentioned slaughters arent still fully in control of todays power structure.

"hey everybody lets lay down our last resort means of defense, slavery aint so bad is it? besides you might poke an eye out!"

regardless, anyone who thinks obama is a force for peace and justice in the world wouldnt be worth responding to if that view wasnt so inaccurate and prevalent.

I appologise to the op for prickisness, but seriously man, you dont know of what you speak.

Oh, so now I'm the ignorant one for giving up my guns. All I am trying to say is that there can not be peace while you continue to cling to your guns. You are NOT helping the situation at all by doing this. Like I said before, all of those massacres happened in other countries a long time ago. America is not those countries. We are a developed nation.

In order for this nation to move forward, you need to give up your guns, plain and simple. Refusing to do so will just cause violence to you, your family and the military personnel just doing their job by asking politely to hand them over.

Just obey the law and everything will be fine.

Seriously, have you read anything people have been saying? It's as if you're spouting liberal propaganda simply for the sake of racking up points.

[edit on 5/11/2009 by LiquidLight]

No, YOU must not be listening kiddo. I know there has been terrible massacres all throughout history and corrupt governments, but this is America, the NEW America. The best and most prosperous country in the world. Those events are long over as we have learned from our mistakes. I mean, you all sound like you have a problem with are government acting like they're the bad guys. All they want to do is promote peace and change. That's why the MAJORITY of America voted for Obama. He's the president for a reason right?


And to the above poster. If a bat or some sort of martial arts does not suit your needs, USE A SWORD OR A CROSSBOW. Those are perfectly capable of defending your home and family.

Originally posted by doorbell412
In order for this nation to move forward, you need to give up your guns, plain and simple. Refusing to do so will just cause violence to you, your family and the military personnel just doing their job by asking politely to hand them over. Just obey the law and everything will be fine.

American gun-owners are obeying the Constitution, which gives us the right. But if your Nazi leader, Obama, tries to dispose of the Constitution in order to steal our right, then we will revolt...and, yes, there will be blood.

So far, you "progressives" (liberals) haven't produced any evidence of your "superior strategy" for making the world a safer place. Right now, because we have a weak president and a weak Congress, the USA is not as safe as it was just 6 months ago.

Those enemies who would do this nation harm think that Obama and Hitlery Clinton are a couple of spineless cowards (which they are), and our enemies are going to strike at us when they sense such cowardice.

— Doc Velocity

This guy is just egging people on to rack up points. I won't be a part of it anymore.

reply to post by doorbell412


lol ok after that last post im calling disinfo or troll. if im wrong ive seriously underestimated modern propaganda!

Bottom line, along with the rest of the members onboard with gun rights.

You can pry my gun from my dead body.

Once incidents like that hit the news, all trying to revoke gun rights will bring is the next civil war.

reply to post by Doc Velocity

Well spoken, Doc! But you don't need to hold back and mince words.

I didn't fight, shed my own blood, and cause my enemies to shed all theirs, for some fancy talking fairy to take something of mine that is guaranteed in the Bill of Rights.

My Bill of Rights.

Maybe someone should change their name to doorMAT.

Ridiculous, I'll not give up ANY of the rights in our Bill or Rights thank you very much.

What has caused more pain, sufferring and death than anything else?

Here's the answer, not guns my friend but WORDS and THOUGHTS. Words and thoughts can be attributed to every mishap in human history. So by your logic, we should outlaw free speech too.

I mean think about it, if everyone was required to think and say the same things then there would be no arguements or wars. So lets do it, lets do away with free speech!

Not, really I love our Bill of Rights more than anything and I'll fight to keep it all intact.

If you don't like our constitution, then leave.

If your in a state that is pushing to do away with Federal Firearms Regulations then be sure to support it, its the only way to stop this in its tracks.

After the Clinton Gun Ban expired it was left up to the states to decide if they wanted to continue the ban on a state by state basis. Guess what most didn't... the States have made their decision on this, so take your unconstitutional gun laws and leave us alone.