Why not just let the government take our guns? What's the big deal?

Someday there will be no more need for firearms. That day is a LONG way away. The only way I can possibly see Humanity no longer owning firearms would be if we genetically modify Human beings to remove aggression. Since the first life forms existed on this planet the battle began. The survival of the fittest. Eating other life forms and competing with other life forms for resources. The smallest life forms did this when life first appeared on this Earth. For all we know this is the way life exists throughout all of the Universe. Maybe even beyond it.

It seems reasonable to hypothesize that life competes with other life everywhere.

Some things we would need to not have to compete with each other as Nations.
1) Infinite FREE Energy.
2) Infinite FREE clean water
3) Infinite FREE food.
4) Infinite FREE land (Exploration and colonization of planets other than Earth so we can be FAR away from each other and not wage wars over Land or Political or Religious beliefs.)
5) Sharing of information and Technology

Even with these things I predict that humans would desire to harm and kill each other. Even if you could completely eliminate mental illness you would still have the heat of the moment situations where Human A catches human B having sex with their partner.

It just seems like we are a LONG LONG LONG way from achieving any of these goals.

reply to post by doorbell412


dude,make up your mind if your in beverly hills or What was it georgia??

Posted by doorbell412, on March 5, 2009 at 14:45 GMT

I live in Beverly Hills and I haven't heard anything strange. Maybe you all are just paranoid


Posted by doorbell412, on March 10, 2009 at 02:36 GMT

I really want to go because I don't want to go on another boring summer vacation with the family. How do I go about getting one of those Bohemian Grove invitations? I've heard good things and It sounds like fun. Is 16 old enough to get in


shall i go on??

Your a troll



[edit on 12-5-2009 by Redpillblues]

THIS is one of the reasons why we can't let it happen

fourwinds10.com...

if the government wants to take our guns away they could EASILY do it, but why do it forcably when they can use the MSM and make the sheeple think that is what they want???

reply to post by doorbell412


I have to respectfully disagree with everything you have to say, as you obviously have never been in fear for your life, nor have you ever read a single history book.

Guns do not kill people, people who act stupidly with guns kill people.

This means, never pulling a weapon unless one is pulled on you.

This means, never using it except as a self-defense measure.

This mean, never waving it about as a threat, since that's guaranteed to get you locked up.

This means, using your brain and knowing the right time to use it, and the wrong time to use it, and differentiating between the two, to hopefully never have to use it.

This means, if the Military, Law Enforcement, and Government are the only ones who have guns, you have no choice but to obey them.

You mean to tell me, or anyone else here on ATS, that YOU trust the Government that implicitly?

I never trust anyone with total control over me, EVER.

The day I trust anyone with total control over me, will be the day when the pallbearers are lowering my cold, dead body in the ground, face down, so the world can kiss me where the Sun don't shine.

Laws like the Castle Doctrine were made for a reason.

So people can defend themselves, in their own home.

I could care less if it had been Bush trying to outlaw guns, or Obama trying to outlaw guns, or the next jerk standing behind that podium trying to outlaw guns.

[edit on 12-5-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Originally posted by doorbell412

Oh, so now I'm the ignorant one for giving up my guns. All I am trying to say is that there can not be peace while you continue to cling to your guns. You are NOT helping the situation at all by doing this. Like I said before, all of those massacres happened in other countries a long time ago. America is not those countries. We are a developed nation.

In order for this nation to move forward, you need to give up your guns, plain and simple. Refusing to do so will just cause violence to you, your family and the military personnel just doing their job by asking politely to hand them over.

Just obey the law and everything will be fine.

Now I smell a troll. I dont have to go any further than this to see you are just trolling for response. Our Government is owned by the banks and multinational corporations and the handful of ruthless elite that see you as a common slave that is so far down the evolutionary latter they have zero empathy for you.

They have engineered this type of thinking and will wait until enough of the population thinks like you to go ahead and take the guns. The elite around the world are holding out until the American citizens cannot defend themselves anymore before we are totally enslaved and working for nothing. We are the worlds last defense. Almost 100 million gun owners can take this military to its knees and then have all the hardware it needs.

We are the freemen and womens last stand.

THIS is the big deal.

I copied/pasted from WND. I'm not a huge fan of that site, but this is still very true:

"Listen to this statement and ask yourself who made it: "This year will go down in history. For the first time a civilized nation has full gun registration. The street will be safer, the police more efficient and the world will follow our lead into the future." That was spoken by Adolf Hitler, on April 15, 1935.

History offers other examples of what can happen when citizens are stripped of the means to defend themselves.

The Turkish Ottoman Empire established gun control in 1911. It then proceeded to exterminate 1 and a half million Armenians from 1914 to 1917.

The Soviet Union established gun control in 1929. Subsequently, from 1928 to 1953, 60 million dissidents were imprisoned and then exterminated.

China enacted gun control laws in 1935. After the communist takeover, from 1948 to 1952, 20 million Chinese, unable to defend themselves, were murdered.

Nazi Germany fully established gun control in 1938. That helped the government to round up 13 million defenseless Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, mentally ill and impaired human beings. Many were imprisoned in concentration camps, then destroyed.

Guatemala passed gun control laws in 1964. Then, from 1964 to 1981, 100,000 defenseless Mayan Indians were exterminated.

Uganda established gun control measures in 1970. Predictably, from 1971 to 1979, 300,000 defenseless Christians met a similar fate.

Cambodia established gun control measures in 1956. Subsequently, from 1957 to 1977, 1 million Cambodians met their deaths.

Our Founding Fathers had good reason to include in the Constitution "the right for each citizen to bear arms." They came to this country with vivid memories of what an all-powerful government could do to its defenseless citizens.

In America, the following evidence clearly demonstrates the impact upon criminals that armed citizens have. Vermont has a genuine right-to-carry law. That means no permit is required. Yet Vermont boasts the lowest crime rate in the nation. Nationwide in the USA, concealed-carry laws have resulted in a drop in crime rates."

That is my main reason I will keep my arms, no matter what 'law' they pass. Shall not be infringed, means shall not be infringed, period. When people become unarmed by their government, they become subjects. The 2nd amendment is the teeth of our constitution. It keeps the government in check. If they take our arms, who knows what other rights they will strip away.. if all of those people would have remained armed and resisted, the outcome could have been a lot different. Tyrants don't like it when the population is armed!

Originally posted by doorbell412

So what? My brother posts on this account also. He is for guns obviously. We debate over this issue all the time

I thought you were a troll at first until I saw this post. You are some kid living in his parents home and dont have real world experience to understand the dynamic you are even trying to debate.

When some gangster breaks into your home and rapes you wife and steals everything you own then shoots you and leaves you for dead maybe you would begin to understand.

If all law abiding citizens carried guns violent crime except crime of passion and insanity will cease. Criminals are cowards and would not dare rob an armed populace.

The Government would not dare go up against those kind of numbers of armed populace. Police cant save you they can only mop up after the crime has taken place. Any other weapon is not long range enough or fast enough for an armed invader that is packing a gun.

We may not need guns a few hundred years from now but until then we do. Why don't you do this if you think we have become so enlightened. Go to the worst neighborhood at night in any medium to large city and take a walk. If you are a Caucasian you just wont make it dude. Sorry but that is a fact. I grew up in the ghetto, I should know. I went back one day and this was in broad daylight and saw a friend I grew up with. He didn't recognize me and said "White boy your on the wrong side of town" I said Steven Denning its me!

He said: "[snip] Brian I almost killed you boy, whatchu been up too?"

What I stated will be shot down by the politically correct but I live in reality where do you live?

Originally posted by doorbell412

Can't we all just get along?

This is only possible in the perfect world that exists only inside your head.

Besides, there's too many kids dying by playing with their parents loaded gun. By banning guns from the citizens, their wouldn't be any accidental deaths by kids who had their whole lives ahead of them

It happens, sure...but I would argue the statistics are minuscule. Regardless, this however, is not a solid argument that would justify in disarming American citizens.

In the end, what it comes down to, in regards to your pathetic argument for why we should ban guns, is it is the parents responsibility to properly dispose of their weapon so that these accidents do not happen. Just because some parents are not responsible enough, does not, and should not, justify taking away guns from those who are responsible individuals. Guns are not toys.

And please, don't use that lame excuse "you need a gun to defend your family." That is the biggest bull I have ever heard.

I suppose to you it would be. But for those who have lived it, and survived as a result of having a weapon on hand, I'm quite sure they would beg to differ, and those who wouldn't, are probably dead as a result.

There's nothing wrong with a good old fashioned baseball bat to defend your family with or taking up some martial arts lessons.

Have you ever heard of the expression "Never bring a knife to a Gun fight?" What good is having a bat when the other guy can simply blow you a away at his own beckon call? Another poor argument from someone who just doesn't get it....

So everyone saying Obama is the bad guy for trying to take away your guns, you need to take a LONG look at yourself in the mirror. He's trying to make this country a better and safer place, and you people wanting to keep your guns aren't helping at all.

Gun control does not work. The way Obama is going about this is completely illogical to the facts and several situations. It is not the United States governments call on whether guns should be banned or not.

That was not what this country was founded on... Good men died so that we may have rights like this (the right to bear arms). It is what makes the US unique from the rest of the civilized world.

You all need to get with the program, and if there is ever a law that bans guns, you should give them up PEACEFULLY. It's not worth it to start any unnecessary violence over.

You sir, can give up your rights peacefully, but dont be surprised if everyone else does not share your heavily deluded ideology.

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers


Without this "killer instinct" life will eventually cease to exist. This of course is based on the survival of the fittest. Someone, or something will take our place.

I too believe that in the future, we will have less needs for weapons. But we disagree on how this would be achieved. I see the advances in technology as being the bigger reason why weapons and guns will become obsolete. But that is a whole other thread.

Originally posted by badgerprints

Originally posted by doorbell412
He's trying to make this country a better and safer place, and you people wanting to keep your guns aren't helping at all.

You see. This is the type of blatant fiction that people actually believe. They will take away your defenses and then your rights, freedoms and maybe even your life. They do these things to make the world a better safer place. It's clearly illustrated throughout history and will be repeated as soon as they get us to forget.

Before the Nazis had their little party, Hitler took away all of the guns.
Before Stalin killed off millions of his own citizens he took away their guns.
During the 'Cultural Revolution' in which millions were murdered, Mao took away the guns.

Why do YOU want my guns? To make me safer?

Not likely.

i totally agree and like his point of view. its true. and at all times who was behind those people that tried to take away the guns? banks... and who are the prominent bankers alive? rothchilds... why do u think hitler had perhaps such agenda? why would obama spend that much amtof money before the us is to form a north american union and new currency?... its the only way we'd break lose from the dollar we're binded on to that in case we decided not to use, other people would... and they would use it for weaponry n whatever else is accepted. so unless the whole world decides to be peaceful n friendly we gotta take some rights away to have a serious upper hand on anybody else......... more guns in time of bad bad time (which r soon to approach) people might rebel against what they dont find fair (which may be out of the govs hand) so the gov has to get more money for military security of the people... which the banks would have to fund.. which wuld lead to more taxes and wll be more rebellion etc until we're all down in the dumps... sooo... what hes doing is abandoning ship while we can and doing damage control beforehand......

[edit on 12-5-2009 by NipdPrice]

Originally posted by doorbell412

What you need to understand is that times have changed. We no longer live in those days. Times are different now. We are ready to advance as a people and live peacefully, but we can not do that when people like you hold the rest of us back by holding on to your deadly weapons.

What rock have you been living under? Last time I checked there is war going on all over the place. Times have not change as much as you want us to believe.

We DO still live in the days of war and greed and pain and yet you say we are ready.... Hey, Perhaps you should wait untill a bit of peace is achieved before you assume something as you did here.

Here is something you clearly have not thought about. England. No guns.... Knife crime is on the rise there, You know why?

If you take away the guns, people pick up knives to fight with, You take away all the knives people pick up a sharp stick. take away all the sticks people pick up a big rock. Take away, the rocks people pick up a fist.

In other words, if the government takes our guns, crime will not magically dissapear, violent crime will still exsist, the only change will be the weapon of choice.

Also to assume that just because guns are illegal, people will not keep them, is just silly. Believe it or not, people do break the law intentionally sometimes.... People will always have access to guns legally or illegaly.

Trying to violate the 2nd ammendment of the US constitution will only anger the people and the people can only be angered so far you know.

Just ask the royal family that we fought to free ourselves from so we could enjoy our right to bear arms.

Think about it.

reply to post by TerribleTeam2

Just got a quick question out of curiosity in regards to the topic people. It seems a bit hypocritical that people use the "THE GOVERNMENT CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO! IT'S MY LEGAL RIGHT TO HAVE GUNS! IT'S IN THE CONSTITUTION!!!!!!!"

Well, um, excuse my naivety (spelling?), but isn't that EXACTLY what the US Constitution is doing? Telling you what rights you do and don't have? So it's saying what you can and can't do????


So tell me, who is in the right??? The current Government, or one from 200 years ago that had less information (and less people around for that matter) in its hands?

I'm not trying to start a flame war, as I said, I'm just curious, cause it seems wierd that people get angry at the Government of today for telling em what they can and can't do, yet have faith in a Charter from a couple of hundred years ago, created by a Government that now doesn't exist, and doesn't know what we know today. Seems a little crazy to me. But hey, I'm just another small person from the Prison that is Australia

Now if I wasn't so sick, I could probably figure it out for myself. Damn virii!!!!!!!!

Hrmm, I don't know the colonist, aka our Forefathers, defeated the most powerful military in the world, some pirates over in the middle east a few years after that were messing with our citizens, we sent the Marines over kicked their butts and didn't have another American ship hijacked up untill a few months ago. We had the Civil War, and didn't have another war up until the very end of the 1800's. Then their were also many wars going on all over the world at that time.

You know what the only thing that has changed from the past 200 years and present day is an abundance of shiny things(Technology). The only people that think the world is a different place than 200 years ago are very ignorant and don't have the slightest clue of history beyond the past 100 years. Which you have to read on your own because the public school system doesn't teach it, they only teach you what the government wants you to know.

So to answer your question, pre-1900's America we were nation just a starting out, not much of it was developed, and largely unexplored. For the most part the rest of the world was developed for centuries and some for thousands of years, and we managed to become the most powerful nation in the entire world, within 150 years.

Now look at present day, the world is caving, largely due to America because we hold the reserve currency. If you can't figure out that our Forefathers were much better men and had better intentions then, I don't even feel sorry for you. Just make sure you find a nice rock to crawl under when chaos reigns.

reply to post by doorbell412

Don't you see? Guns have caused nothing but trouble throughout the decades. Can't we all just get along? Besides, there's too many kids dying by playing with their parents loaded gun. By banning guns from the citizens, their wouldn't be any accidental deaths by kids who had their whole lives ahead of them. And please, don't use that lame excuse "you need a gun to defend your family." That is the biggest bull I have ever heard. There's nothing wrong with a good old fashioned baseball bat to defend your family with or taking up some martial arts lessons.

So everyone saying Obama is the bad guy for trying to take away your guns, you need to take a LONG look at yourself in the mirror. He's trying to make this country a better and safer place, and you people wanting to keep your guns aren't helping at all. You all need to get with the program, and if there is ever a law that bans guns, you should give them up PEACEFULLY. It's not worth it to start any unnecessary violence over.

I hate to break it to you, but if a revolution does ever take place and they do try to confiscate our guns its your fault for for being anti-American and failing to uphold the highest law in the land.

In fact if it does ever get to that point you might want to keep thoughts like those quite, because you will immediately be branded as a traitor. That is the way it is going to be, the only people that want to disarm the populous are people that wish ill will upon them.

In short if you want peace quit trying to tell other people what to do. There is something deeper and more meaningful in America than guns and that is FREEDOM. If you want peace and flowers then stop trying to take peoples freedom away and worry about you and yours and not what crooks try to sell you.

People like you want peace and everything else, but yet you try to interject your thoughts and values upon other people and intrude in their lives and dictate what they can and can't do and then get all up in arms because people get murdered and wars happen. Here is a hint mind your own business and if you don't like guns and you are afraid of getting gun downed then move to a country that has outlawed guns. Leave my freedom alone.

reply to post by doorbell412


Come and take my guns

You personally, come please.

Do we have an internet tough guy in our midst?



[edit on 12-5-2009 by Whine Flu]

reply to post by Whine Flu


I welcome him to come take my guns to, even if he's escorted by a small militia.


=\


The OP is ignorant, bottom line.

It is a bit ridiculous to hand your weapons in, but I dunno how saying "come 2 my house nd confiskate my gunz i wil beet u up" doesn't really need to be said. It's not what the poster said, but y'know, it's more or less what he said.

reply to post by Whine Flu


>_>

Going off topic here.

If I welcome a government figure to come and take my firearm, I think the last thing I will be doing will be trying to beat them up, maybe shoot them up? =\

"Just trying to make the country safer." that's funny OP I heard the same line from Hitler to George W. Bush and it rings hallow to me still.It's sad that people from both sides of the supposed left/right spectrum get so distracted by these issues they miss the point: every time a government either right or left has confiscated guns that was when that country became a dictatorship.

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by TerribleTeam2

 

Just got a quick question out of curiosity in regards to the topic people. It seems a bit hypocritical that people use the "THE GOVERNMENT CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO! IT'S MY LEGAL RIGHT TO HAVE GUNS! IT'S IN THE CONSTITUTION!!!!!!!"

Well, um, excuse my naivety (spelling?), but isn't that EXACTLY what the US Constitution is doing? Telling you what rights you do and don't have? So it's saying what you can and can't do????


So tell me, who is in the right??? The current Government, or one from 200 years ago that had less information (and less people around for that matter) in its hands?

I'm not trying to start a flame war, as I said, I'm just curious, cause it seems wierd that people get angry at the Government of today for telling em what they can and can't do, yet have faith in a Charter from a couple of hundred years ago, created by a Government that now doesn't exist, and doesn't know what we know today. Seems a little crazy to me. But hey, I'm just another small person from the Prison that is Australia

Now if I wasn't so sick, I could probably figure it out for myself. Damn virii!!!!!!!!

Hrmm, I don't know the colonist, aka our Forefathers, defeated the most powerful military in the world, some pirates over in the middle east a few years after that were messing with our citizens, we sent the Marines over kicked their butts and didn't have another American ship hijacked up untill a few months ago. We had the Civil War, and didn't have another war up until the very end of the 1800's. Then their were also many wars going on all over the world at that time.

You know what the only thing that has changed from the past 200 years and present day is an abundance of shiny things(Technology). The only people that think the world is a different place than 200 years ago are very ignorant and don't have the slightest clue of history beyond the past 100 years. Which you have to read on your own because the public school system doesn't teach it, they only teach you what the government wants you to know.

So to answer your question, pre-1900's America we were nation just a starting out, not much of it was developed, and largely unexplored. For the most part the rest of the world was developed for centuries and some for thousands of years, and we managed to become the most powerful nation in the entire world, within 150 years.

Now look at present day, the world is caving, largely due to America because we hold the reserve currency. If you can't figure out that our Forefathers were much better men and had better intentions then, I don't even feel sorry for you. Just make sure you find a nice rock to crawl under when chaos reigns.

reply to post by doorbell412

 

Don't you see? Guns have caused nothing but trouble throughout the decades. Can't we all just get along? Besides, there's too many kids dying by playing with their parents loaded gun. By banning guns from the citizens, their wouldn't be any accidental deaths by kids who had their whole lives ahead of them. And please, don't use that lame excuse "you need a gun to defend your family." That is the biggest bull I have ever heard. There's nothing wrong with a good old fashioned baseball bat to defend your family with or taking up some martial arts lessons.

So everyone saying Obama is the bad guy for trying to take away your guns, you need to take a LONG look at yourself in the mirror. He's trying to make this country a better and safer place, and you people wanting to keep your guns aren't helping at all. You all need to get with the program, and if there is ever a law that bans guns, you should give them up PEACEFULLY. It's not worth it to start any unnecessary violence over.

I hate to break it to you, but if a revolution does ever take place and they do try to confiscate our guns its your fault for for being anti-American and failing to uphold the highest law in the land.

In fact if it does ever get to that point you might want to keep thoughts like those quite, because you will immediately be branded as a traitor. That is the way it is going to be, the only people that want to disarm the populous are people that wish ill will upon them.

In short if you want peace quit trying to tell other people what to do. There is something deeper and more meaningful in America than guns and that is FREEDOM. If you want peace and flowers then stop trying to take peoples freedom away and worry about you and yours and not what crooks try to sell you.

People like you want peace and everything else, but yet you try to interject your thoughts and values upon other people and intrude in their lives and dictate what they can and can't do and then get all up in arms because people get murdered and wars happen. Here is a hint mind your own business and if you don't like guns and you are afraid of getting gun downed then move to a country that has outlawed guns. Leave my freedom alone.

YAY! good.. so ur both in the right. the 'new' government DOES know more.. and the founding fathers DID have better intentions for us all.. they just didnt intend to lose its power over checks n balances shortly after thoug... yeah.. america didnt develop the reserve... some bankers did.. and they did it by lying.. and bankruptcy.. and great depressions.. and ww2... china, germany etc.. shall i continue? america didnt create any currency that currency is in fact ILLEGAL for us to be using according t the constitutional laws our founding fathers have made... so since we're valued by the dollar we need something worth MORE than the dollar.. a new country with a higher number of exports with new currency.... =bigger returns for investors.. even BIGGER returns if the country is in charge of its own currency's balance.... think it through.. how can u convince the world that what they have invested in u isnt gone down the crapper? -while trying to work ur way around dictators w oil and anyone with bombs that r funded by drug money?... u cant control it unless u control the money.. sooooo... new country. new people. new currency. new system. otherwise we're #ed. big time...... we're #ed either way but the gunless way would be a lot quicker n maybe less painless..........

Originally posted by doorbell412


Just obey the law and everything will be fine.

Wow, I mean just WOW. There is no way you can be serious, this must be a joke or something.

This website is about denying ignorance, so what exactly are you doing here? Just obey the law and everything will be fine? I'm speechless.