Its time to defeat the powers that be - by adopting communisim!

reply to post by count66


Are you really that arrogant to assume that all members who disagree with you have no idea of what they are talking about?

Isn't it just as likely that these members have thought about the issue and drawn from their life experiences? I don't assume anything about communists, so don't assume anything about the rest of us.

a little more on che

following day that Alberto Korda took the famous photograph now known as Guerrillero Heroico. Guevara desired to see a diversification in Cuba's economy, as well as an elimination of material incentives in favor of moral ones. He viewed capitalism as a "contest among wolves" where "one can only win at the cost of others," and thus desired to see the creation of a "new man and woman".[71] An integral part of fostering a sense of "unity between the individual and the mass", Guevara believed, was volunteer work and will. To display this, Guevara "led by example", working "endlessly at his ministry job, in construction, and even cutting sugar cane" on his day off.[72] He was known for working 36 hours at a stretch, calling meetings after midnight, and eating on the run.[73] Alongside his work schedule he wrote several publications advocating a replication of the Cuban revolutionary model, promoting small rural guerrilla groups (foco theory) as an alternative to massive armed insurrection. During this time his wife Aleida encouraged him to explore classical music, which he came to love, with Beethoven as his favorite.[74] Other luxuries which he afforded himself were maté, his favorite beverage, and Montecristo No. 4's, his cigar of choice.[74]

Hello folks I am somewhat new to ATS. I say this because for awhile now I have been reading the threads waiting for something like this to show up. This topic just happens to my forte. I myself do believe Marxism is truly the right path to take, but the idea itself needs to be updated with the times. It is said it looks good on paper but will never work in reality. i say it looks even better on a computer screen!LOL!! Half the time communism failed not only because of the powers wanting to make a profit rather than make all the right decisions for all the right reasons. It also failed because the system became buried under mountains of paperwork involved with the system i.e. " it looks better on a computer screen". Now with that said the only real obstacle is getting the masses to understand that life is more than a picket fence and a hummer (going both ways) LOL. I believe this thread is one step to making things come together. So I urge those of you involved with this site ... honestly those of you that are involved with this planet to do more than just argue points but discuss optimistically of course how we the people can rise through the system at hand i.e. using petitions, rally s , and/or peace walks"whatev" and instead of being in the "pursuit" of happiness we simply should be able to reach out and grab it with just a little hard work and being able to actually follow your dreams/your calling without being told you have to take out a loan first. I believe we all have the capability to see the better way, but do we have the will, the might, or the cohenes to ask the obstacle/powers to step aside and join us in traveling down the right path. I myself have quite a few ideas for the system and the introduction of said system(communism in case i lost anyone), but due to the length of this rant I will stop here I am very eager to hear what everyone has to say and am a big fan of constructive criticism so critique away... GOOD DAY

Originally posted by count66
reply to post by Question

 

That is capitalism - whereby you enslave yourself with debt which in turn goes to the power hungry 10% of the worlds population who own 85% of the worlds assets as is the case today.

No one made you enslave yourself with debt. Do you realize that their are people in this world that save money to by things like a house and a car with cash?

If you look at most immigrants in this country, you will realize that most of them do not take on debt. They sacrifice to save money to by what they want/need. They live with a friend or relative until they have saved enough money for a house. Then in turn they let a friend or relative live with them until that person has saved enough to buy a house.

So the only reason any of us are enslaved in debt is because we chose to do so, because we are impatient and do not want to sacrifice.

reply to post by NettleTea


I have no problem with anyone debating communism but unfortunately many people begin the debate with false assumptions that the socialist autocratic states are communist or that so called democratic socialism is communism.

One of the true advocates of communism Trotsky died fighting against autocratic socialism.

So I cannot debate with those who do not understand the difference between the two.

In my opening post I clearly state that people need to understand the meaning of communism - unfortunately that does not seem to be the case - so am I arrogant to correct peoples misinformation - I don't think so

Originally posted by NettleTea
reply to post by kkklownknight6699

 

You are assuming that nations, armies, and police will abandon their posts in order to make this communist revolution. For this conversation I will give you 90% of the world's forces disarmed. That leaves us with 10% still armed. Now this 10% has access to nuclear weapons. It is hard for you and your buddies to shoot down a missiles with a few rifles.

There can't be any armies as you have stipulated this condition. Who will pilot the jet fighters? Who will drive the tanks? If there are no armed forces in the traditional sense then you have no means of defense against those nations that will not follow you.

If a Jet fighter needs to be produced it will produced, If a anti-nuclear missile is needed then so be it.

Society as a whole will decide defend itself if it feels that lives are in danger.

Remember in WW2 when people began to volunteer to fight and work in factories and produce tanks, planes, bombs etc at little or no pay so why did that happen? It happened because a survivalist instinct kicked it and people did not fight for their government but fought because they understood that not fighting back would result in their extermination.

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


I live in the capital of Ireland where the average house price is €300K - how on earth is anyone suppose to save that cash when rents are approx €1,200 a month and the average salary is €3,000 a month - never mind support a family

reply to post by count66


Your working definition has no standing in reality. You keep saying that if we just understood what “true communism” was, we would be on your side. Well a good number of us play that theory out and see the damage it would cause. We see the high probability of corruption and destruction. We also see the nonsensical steps involved in creating such a system (dissolution of nations, armies, police, all at the same time).

reply to post by NettleTea


I never said that people would be on my side I just want people to debate true communism rather then confuse the issue with autocratic socialism.

Also, the dissolution of states has to be a good thing. If people begin to see themselves as human first rather then Irish, American, British first then surely that is a good thing. People often divide themselves through misguided nationalism.

Most crime originates due to the uneven spread of resources and an unjust society which removes the human rights of people. Most wars originate from the competition for resources such as water, land, oil etc.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


I can't believe it my friend! you are at it again! You must be seriously confused?

You said:
At the end we are left with the choice of choosing Communism with the "Corporation/State" being in power, or Communism with the "State" being in power....

The first part is not true since there is no private Corporations in Communism!!

When Corporations/State being in power together from both sides, you have FASCISM!

NOT COMUMUNISM!

Therefore how the system in America was under GWB, when you had the Corporations and State working closely together in an ultra nationalistic & patriotic environment, you have something similar to the 'modus operandi' of Fascism - not Communism!

It has not changed much yet under Obama, the corporate lobby and wall Street Banksters are still strong and are robbing you blind, from behind the curtain.

The administrations are still puppets for the Corporations.

Corporations working from inside the Goverment or the other way around is a part of what the historians refer to as FASCISM.

(Fascism exhibits the worst kind of capitalism where corporate power is absolute, and all vestiges of workers' rights are destroyed.)

And I'm not even a Communist or Socialist! mind you - I'm just frustrated and tired of seeing how you're twisting common facts with your personal beliefs & agenda!

Please my friend! deny ignorance and.... Get The Facts Straight!

Peace brother!

[edit on 3-4-2009 by Chevalerous]

Originally posted by count66
Open your eyes and don't believe the propaganda which is what my post is about. The true message of communism is a danger to the powers that be hence their unfortunately successful efforts to hide this message in false propaganda.

That is the true conspiracy.

Your pro communist posts are pure propaganda. There is no freedom in Communism period. The state is supreme, the people are cattle and are told what they will do and where they can go. There are many communist countries in the world today, we called them Third World countries because they have no Capitalism. Capitalism rewards millions of people. Communism condemns billions of people.

Granted, many slackers disserve Communism. But Communism doesn’t tolerate slackers

reply to post by kkklownknight6699


So a company is going to produce a jet fighter, without a consumer or government to buy it? After they produce the jet who gets it? There is no Air Force to take it because you dissolved the armed forces. No Air Force means no one is trained to use the military grade jet. So the thing just sits out in the factory's parking lot?

A lot of good that jet will do against an invading force.

Originally posted by NettleTea
reply to post by count66

 

Your working definition has no standing in reality. You keep saying that if we just understood what “true communism” was, we would be on your side. Well a good number of us play that theory out and see the damage it would cause. We see the high probability of corruption and destruction. We also see the nonsensical steps involved in creating such a system (dissolution of nations, armies, police, all at the same time).

This would be a gradual process.

Nobody said it would be easy, But humans to tend to have herd mentality and it would only take a few people to sway the rest.

Linux for instance has no profit motive involved and no ownership yet this product grows and evolves by individuals and organizations who work as equals and collaborate to achieve a common goal an idea.

If it could work for something as complicated as an operating system then society should be able move towards that direction.

reply to post by gdeed


Again another misguided understanding of communism.

Communism doesn't believe in states - i.e. there isn't a state anymore in communism.

You my friend are thinking of autocratic socialism as first established by the dictator Stalin when he took over the communist Soviet Union and established autocratic socialism - that is why there is a political ideology called stalinism versus marxism which is communism

reply to post by count66

I agree with you m8, and have one answer to it all, as i wrote about it here before = McCartyism. This insane person who gained power in some strange way, and who has brainwashed a whole generations of Americans with his BULL about how dangerous Socialism is.

to the OP

just move to the US you'll get your wish real soon

I read the communist manifesto when I was in my early 20s thought it was a real good idea too at the time. Then I grew up!

We don't really have capitalism here in the US. Capitalism hasn't failed us. The world elite are just doing what they always do - screw everyone for their personal gain and pleasure. This elite will exist whether we have capitalism, socialism or communism (which I think is their personal favorite).

Communism can't work because those that rule (the State) will always abuse the system. And in a communist state there is little recourse for addressing grievances. If I recall they just re-educate you, and if that doesn't work they 'fix' you by getting rid of you.

Your ideal can't work because it doesn't account for the evil tendencies of human nature. Which we can see in abundance right now. The ideal of communism rest on being able to trust government. This is simply not possible at this time in our development. In fact, if people could be trusted absolutely then we wouldn't need government at all.

What is required is the constant check of governmental power and abuse. Our US constitution tried to achieve this. It was based on an understanding that power corrupts and people have evil tendencies. All we need is to shake off our overlords and start over. The struggle with evil appears to be eternal.

Personal freedom and responsibility followed by a good ol entrepreneurial spirit with a moral code of generosity, honesty and respect for your fellow man is all we need.

We just need Communism? Yeah that'll show those greedy bastards that rule the world!

Originally posted by count66
reply to post by justsomeboreddude

 

I live in the capital of Ireland where the average house price is €300K - how on earth is anyone suppose to save that cash when rents are approx €1,200 a month and the average salary is €3,000 a month - never mind support a family

I think it works like this..
You find a relative or friend to move in with. You take that 1200 a month and you save and possibly invest it. You cut all of your other expenses to the bare minimum and you save that money as well. Then you buy the house you can afford. If you cannot afford an average one you buy a less than average one. Also, during this time you and/or your spouse can take on some extra jobs to save money even faster. Also, if you cannot afford to live in the capital, you move to a cheaper city and commute to work.

One thing to note is that the average price of a house in the capital of Ireland would never have reached 300k, if it wasnt for the fact that the prices get falsly inflated because everyone can pay more because they can borrow money. So if everyone had to save then the price of houses would drop dramatically.

[edit on 3-4-2009 by justsomeboreddude]

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


Thats assuming that you will have friends who will take you in and share their resources with you - or in other words a communistic solution.

I'm actually quite lucky as the system has worked well for me and I earn far more then the average wage.

But in saying that I realise the complete and utter unfairness of the system and how I was only given these advantages because I grew up in a decent family who realised the power of education and had the resources to provide same.

I have also seen what happens the other side though - to those people who grow up in poor areas and who have to leave school early to support their familes and end up in dead end jobs at minimum wage with no prospects through no fault of their own.

Originally posted by kkklownknight6699
"WHO decides the rules in this wonderful communist state?"

Nobody because it is stateless.

No government, president, congress etc etc

Get it?

Ok let me draw a ascii picture for you. Throughout history we have have been through several stages.

1. Primitive Communism: as seen in cooperative tribal societies.

Check

2. Slave Society: which develops when the tribe becomes a city-state. Aristocracy is born.

Check

3. Feudalism: aristocracy is the ruling class. Merchants develop into capitalists.

Mostly Merchants and few yeoman class folk

4. Capitalism: capitalists are the ruling class, who create and employ the true working class.

Check

5. Socialism: workers gain class consciousness, overthrow the capitalists and take control over the state.

Originally posted by kkklownknight6699
If it could work for something as complicated as an operating system then society should be able move towards that direction.

I think the global society on Earth is a bit more complicated than Linux. If a Linux distro project goes under you can walk away. If a communist state goes under people (in the millions) die.