Its time to defeat the powers that be - by adopting communisim!

reply to post by 2 cents


Again my friend you are confusing the philosophy of Stalinism with Marxism which is what I'm talking about.

In marxism there is no state - power lies at the grass roots through the people who generate wealth and advance society.

In our current society its the massive corporations and shareholders who rule society while the masses of humanity are exploited

reply to post by count66


Tell me my friend who will arrest the thief that breaks into your house or rapes your daughter - if there is no State?

reply to post by 2 cents


Why do you need a state to defend yourself.

I grew up in the west of Ireland and if someone breaks into a house down there - its quicker to sort it out ourselves then call the police. Justice is fair and swift - the police only delay justice and 9/10 the judiciary get the sentences wrong anyways and either over or under punish.

reply to post by count66


ah I knew that was what you were going to say.

So what about a little old defenseless lady? Who will protect her from this anarchy you suggest?

reply to post by count66


Well I admire your compassion for others. But it does the human race no good to lower our expectations to the lowest common denominator. If I were you I would thank my parents for raising me right, and make sure I did an even better job with my children.

I dont know about Ireland, but if an American family doesnt get an education then its their own fault. There are free public schools. So as long as you raise your children well, love them, feed them, and care for them, and help them with their homework they will have a pretty good chance at success.

I should not be held responsible for someone else failing to raise their children properly.

To me its evolution. The strong succeed and move up, the weak succumb to addiction, lack of education, etc... Now that doesnt mean we as individuals should not choose to give people a hand up from time to time, but we shouldnt be robbed of our resources to take care of people who come from families that make bad choices.

[edit on 3-4-2009 by justsomeboreddude]

reply to post by 2 cents


The local community - who would care more about that little old lady - her neighbours or a faceless state.

reply to post by kkklownknight6699


Yeah.

Tragically, the revolutionaries end up becoming authoritarian tyrants who execute dissidents and undesirables.

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


There is free education in Ireland too and that extends all the way to university - but if a family needs money then often kids have to leave early to help support their familes

Also some kids don't have good parents and should they be punished for the mistakes of the parents.

I hear what your saying about evolution but surely as a species we have to move beyond that - to a spiritual level rather then a animal level - and thats what I believe true communism to be - that next evolutionary step - where we don't watch people die and say I'm ok so it doesn't matter.

I'm not particularly talking about people in Ireland of America here - but rather the poverty stricken millions in the rest of the world who will never get the chances we have in the developed world and are screwed from day one.

Here's a wacky idea....HOW ABOUT A DAMN REPUBLIC AGAIN!?

I swear most of the people out there who scream "we're socialist now!" have not clue #1 as to what socialism actually is. Especially considering the pertinent government services are all being CUT, not increased (hospitals, dmv, mass transit, etc). Make no mistake, we where more of a fascist state with Bush (stolen elections), now we're sitting in limbo, but we absolutely NOT a socialist or communist nation considering the major problem we're dealing with right now is a small elite group choking the wealth out of the rest of the damn WORLD. Not just the United States, that INCLUDES the rulers in communist states like China & Russia.

So whatever, stop being so damn reactionary and thinking all of these problems can be so simply remedied with dreaming, hearsay, and rhetoric from poly-sci class. There's too much going on for that and their plans are already too far in advance at this point.

reply to post by count66


ah a local government you say? A local community? what if a crime is committed how will the criminal be found out? How will punishment be decided?

You see what you are suggesting is anarchy then when the obvious problems are pointed out you will resort to local government. But how does one prevent the abuse of power when that power is given to someone in the community to help install peace and order?

The problem you are dealing with is human nature.

Yeah communism is a nice idea... too bad it doesn't work. Giving the elites of the government more power over things like wages, prices, etc would be even worse than what we have right now. America was founded on the idea that government power should be limited to prevent things like what has been happening.

I agree with Thomas Jefferson on the idea of anarchism if people had greatly intact morals there would be no need for Government. Jefferson admired the indians because they almost had no way of Governing, he saw them as happier and more interconnected. The constitution was written with some of the best ideas of the time and Thomas Jefferson definitely had some, it is odd to think that the indians did have a slight impact on the way our Government was formed.

[edit on 3-4-2009 by asmall89]

reply to post by infinite


Akin to the Mcarthyite prosecutions perhaps where people are exiled or accused in a panic with no real evidence!

Or how about Bush who launched and kept a war in Iraq going for which there was no real support among the majority in the U.S.

Originally posted by count66
reply to post by 2 cents

 

Why do you need a state to defend yourself.

I grew up in the west of Ireland and if someone breaks into a house down there - its quicker to sort it out ourselves then call the police. Justice is fair and swift - the police only delay justice and 9/10 the judiciary get the sentences wrong anyways and either over or under punish.

I agree with you. They either over or under punish with a few exceptions that actually get treated fairly. It seems the beautiful and popular people get the best treatment, but every once in a while there are exceptions...Like Martha Stewart sitting in jail while OJ is on her TV set playing golf....LOL.

But we do need a police force or protection service controlled by the local municipalities, at the very least.

communism looks good on paper, but greed causes it to not work in practice. Just look at most of the responses to communism, they will be based that the person would 'lose' in that system. People have come to expect a class system. There must be others that are underneath them in some way, financially, education level, etc... This is because every human lacks inherent self worth, looks outside for validation, and that comes from being able to walk on the backs of others so their feet don't touch the ground.

The OP is comparing apples and oranges.

Capitalism is a form of economy.

Communism is a form of government.

I would also like to point out that TPTB are moving us to Socialism as an interim step to eventual Communism. That is very plain to see in the events of the last couple of years in general and the events of the past couple of months in particular.

So, how is it possible to stick it to TPTB by moving to Communism volutarily? All that happens in that scenario is the NWO, single world government, and total enslavement of the world happens sooner.

If you want to stop TPTB and NWO from total domination advocating Communism is not the way to do it. I would also point out that if you think that you are miserable under the current conditions, just talk to someone who actually lived under a Communist government. What we are going through is nothing compared to what people in the former USSR went through, or what people in China go through now.

reply to post by count66


Well, it's not like the US government carried out forced starvation on parts of its Union? Ah, Stalin carried out that practice on the Ukraine.

Mao created a famine, out of poor economic handling, which resulted in the death of 25 million Chinese. The Cultural Revolution added a few more millions to the total too.

Err...shall I raise the Red flag or you?

[edit on 3-4-2009 by infinite]

"In thoery Lisa, ..... Communism works in theory"

-----------Homer Simpson



I will admit I have nto read the entire thread but:

Communism has shown it does not work. Animal Farm aside, please show me a Communist nation that has not had its share of corrupt leaders etc. China? Korea? Soviet union? All relied on pretty much brutal supression of any opposition etc.

Also while the tennants sound good on paper, you can never overcome human nature for greed, jealousy etc.

The whole concept of communism was that we would have to evolve as a society for such a system to ever work. Communism can not be put in place by revolution, only socialism. For communism to exist, it must be evolved over time.

If we could just back to a system with a representative government doing its job, we could be doing very well right now. A little over ten years ago, things were going very well for the world's economy. Maybe, Obama can help us get back to where we were while Clinton was in office. Things were just about as bad when Clinton took office as they are now.

reply to post by Northern Raider


Guess what, I didn't get "dealt a good hand" and now I'm desperate so I'm going to rob you and kill you. Sorry you had to die, life's not fair.

We can do better.

Originally posted by SpacePunk

communism looks good on paper, but greed causes it to not work in practice. Just look at most of the responses to communism, they will be based that the person would 'lose' in that system. People have come to expect a class system. There must be others that are underneath them in some way, financially, education level, etc... This is because every human lacks inherent self worth, looks outside for validation, and that comes from being able to walk on the backs of others so their feet don't touch the ground.

you are simply missing the point my friend with this system the standard of living is supposed to be raised for everyone, only the elitists stand to lose but even then they won't lose everything as long as they come to the understanding that destruction is never the answer and that everyone deserves a chance and with this system everyone will get a chance to do what they really want as long as that want contributes to the greater good