reply to post by FadeToBlack
I would have to disagree on several fronts.
Firstly communism doesn't remove the right to reward for working harder, it merely removes the right to unjust rewards - i.e. paying someone several
million a year for which there is no justification.
As for capitalism being the best system to encourage workers - well I have heard a lot of Americans on here decrying Socialism as a stepping stone to
communism and how that would lead to people becoming lazy and just sponging off the state.
I have also heard a lot of Americans claiming that their society is the freest and most prosperous - neither of these claims are not backed up when
you investigate the facts.
Western Europe have been operating as Socialist Democracies, (Monarchies and Republics) for the past 50 years and their workers are the most
productive in the world.
The following table shows the average US$ produced per hour by a worker in each of the relevant countries - the table has been taken from the
Conference Board and the Groningen Growth and Development Centre and is based on 2008 figures.
Luxembourg : 57.5
France : 56.6
Belgium : 55.9
Norway : 53.0
Ireland : 51.8
Italy : 50.3
USA : 49.6
Japan : 37.3
As we can see even socialism encourages more productivity then more Capitalist societies such as Japan and the USA.
Why? - its very simple - there is an old motto - a happy worker is a productive worker and where the wealth generated by the worker is returned to
either the worker or society such as taxes being used to provide free education and health care as in the socialist societies shown above, then the
worker is happier since they know that those basic needs for themselves and their families are guarented no matter what happens.
Secondly I would say that in Western Europe we have as much freedom if not more than many in the US - With the exception of the UK none of these
countries allow the government to spy on their phone calls, emails and internet usage.
As for Prosperity, lets have a look at another table;
Countries of the World
Gross National Product (GNP) per capita - 2005
(Wealth levels around the world)
GNP per capita (dollars)
1 Luxembourg 65 602 $
2 Norway 59 768 $
3 Switzerland 54 925 $
4 Denmark 47 363 $
5 Iceland 46 655 $
6 United States 43 743 $
7 Bermuda 41 875 $
8 Sweden 41 042 $
9 Ireland 40 232 $
10 Liechtenstein 39 412 $
11 Japan 38 984 $
Again we can see that the more socialist leaning countries enjoy either greater prosperity in many cases or almost equal prosperity then the more
capitalistic societies such as the US and Japan.
This data shows over and over again that the more the state is geared towards the benefit of the worker (the Wealth Generator) than towards the
shareholder (The wealth taker) then the society is generally more productive and more prosperous than those societies where the shareholders are
Remember capitalism doesn't benefit business - it benefits shareholders and bankers a crucial mistake which is made by many. Business is ran,
operated and generates wealth through the efforts of the workers and the owners. After a business has been in existence for a time, in order to expand
that business, it must either take on Investors or debt to finance same. This now makes the business beholding not to the owners or workers but the
faceless bankers or shareholders which do not have the business really at heart - rather all they care about are the bottom lines and they do not tend
to care how those bottom lines are reached. As we have seen in the financial services world, the shareholders will often encourage reckless business
practices to grow profits often to the detriment of the business. Also, this has happened before - 1930's - so its not an isolated example.
Socialism and Communism have been programmed into the minds of people as something terrible and evil (particularly in the US) when in fact it is the
other way around (capitalism is the evil system) - why has this false indoctrination taken place? - simple - if workers and business owners know the
truth then the powers that be will lose their ability to manipulate production, wealth and societies through the machinations of the stock markets. In
the capitalist system - they have the power to make of break countries and societies, to enslave citizens to mountains of debt, to gear what is
produced by companies to the stock markets needs which are often not compatible to the needs of society - e.g. the lack of production of much needed
cheap medical drugs as they would destroy profit margins.
I could go on and on but I think I have made the basic point of my message.
[edit on 12-4-2009 by count66]
[edit on 12-4-2009 by count66]