Man always becomes corrupt if given too much power,i agree that communism is actually quite a good ideaology(imo anyway) but like i said,that much
power in the hands of man will inevitably lead to dark times,if we weren't such a flawed species it would work.
Its time to defeat the powers that be - by adopting communisim!, page 1
privacy
Topic started on 2-4-2009 @ 06:50 PM by count66
For years I was an ardent capitalist. I bought the dream that if you work hard, provide for your family and give your kids a decent education that
anything is possible in this so called free society. That our destiny was forged in our own hands and that state intervention was unnecessary and
unwarranted.
I'm now in my 30's and realise that this is a load of pipe dreams sold to us by the powers that be to make us live like good productive rats to support their own wealth generation.
They give us the illusion of democracy by supplying us with political parties that wear different flags but that support the same old system. A system where thee vast majority of people work to support the few. Where our planet is raped and destroyed and where the wealth is so unevenly distributed that 10% of the worlds population control 85% of the worlds assets. In the meantime the 90% of us that are left behind are forced to beg for work or for meagre social welfare handouts to support or familes or in many cases starve. This in turn leads to war, social disruption, crime, disease etc.
Why have so many of us for so long in western society in particular and throughout the world supported this system, a system which benefits the few but leaves the masses behind. The whole international financial system runs on debt.
What most people fail to grasp however is that 10% of the population of the world who control 85% of the assets are the lenders of that debt, debt which is secured on the remaining 15% of the worlds assets. So what happens when we the people cannot make our payments - many times through faults not of our own making, e.g. the current financial crisis - our assets are possessed by the owners of the debt, thereby in turn increasing the assets of the already wealthy. Not only that but in many countries even when your asset is repossessed the outstanding debt still remains.
This is an absolutely insane systems whereby the generators of the worlds wealth are getting paid a fraction of its value. I calculated the money I had generated and saved for my company over the past two years and it worked out at well over €2 Million - in return I got approximately 5% - of which the vast majority goes to service debt, i.e. mortgage, car etc. So not only have the powers that be got 95% of that 2 million, they also want me to pay them about half of the 5% that they paid me back to them just to have the bare necessities of life.
I finally had an epiphany when I read for the first time the Communist Manifesto - it made total sense. Now before people go off on one about communism and the Soviet Union etc, it should be noted that Stalinism and Chinese Autocracy are not communism and bear no relation to the agenda set out in the communist manifesto.
The communist manifesto is true democracy where every citizen has control over the wealth that they generate and the right to access all the fundamentals neccesary to sustain life.
There is a new world order being planned by the powers that be and that is to further interlock the world into the current capitalist system which owns all of us as slaves through economic poverty.
This is the main conspiracy of today - to continue to trap us in the hamsters wheel of illusionary democracy and capitalist production.
I urge anyone who reads this thread before they respond to read the communist manifesto if they have not done so and then respond.
LINK > www.anu.edu.au...
Ask yourself 3 questions if you think communism is such a bad idea -
1) Why do the powers that be seek to crush it ruthlessly wherever it tries to take root if it is not a genuine threat to their ideals.
2) Why is the communist manifesto consistently lied about as being undemocratic when it fact it espouses the most liberal form of democracy that their is
3) If the current system is the true way to wealth why is the majority of the world growing poorer and the rich getting richer
I'm now in my 30's and realise that this is a load of pipe dreams sold to us by the powers that be to make us live like good productive rats to support their own wealth generation.
They give us the illusion of democracy by supplying us with political parties that wear different flags but that support the same old system. A system where thee vast majority of people work to support the few. Where our planet is raped and destroyed and where the wealth is so unevenly distributed that 10% of the worlds population control 85% of the worlds assets. In the meantime the 90% of us that are left behind are forced to beg for work or for meagre social welfare handouts to support or familes or in many cases starve. This in turn leads to war, social disruption, crime, disease etc.
Why have so many of us for so long in western society in particular and throughout the world supported this system, a system which benefits the few but leaves the masses behind. The whole international financial system runs on debt.
What most people fail to grasp however is that 10% of the population of the world who control 85% of the assets are the lenders of that debt, debt which is secured on the remaining 15% of the worlds assets. So what happens when we the people cannot make our payments - many times through faults not of our own making, e.g. the current financial crisis - our assets are possessed by the owners of the debt, thereby in turn increasing the assets of the already wealthy. Not only that but in many countries even when your asset is repossessed the outstanding debt still remains.
This is an absolutely insane systems whereby the generators of the worlds wealth are getting paid a fraction of its value. I calculated the money I had generated and saved for my company over the past two years and it worked out at well over €2 Million - in return I got approximately 5% - of which the vast majority goes to service debt, i.e. mortgage, car etc. So not only have the powers that be got 95% of that 2 million, they also want me to pay them about half of the 5% that they paid me back to them just to have the bare necessities of life.
I finally had an epiphany when I read for the first time the Communist Manifesto - it made total sense. Now before people go off on one about communism and the Soviet Union etc, it should be noted that Stalinism and Chinese Autocracy are not communism and bear no relation to the agenda set out in the communist manifesto.
The communist manifesto is true democracy where every citizen has control over the wealth that they generate and the right to access all the fundamentals neccesary to sustain life.
There is a new world order being planned by the powers that be and that is to further interlock the world into the current capitalist system which owns all of us as slaves through economic poverty.
This is the main conspiracy of today - to continue to trap us in the hamsters wheel of illusionary democracy and capitalist production.
I urge anyone who reads this thread before they respond to read the communist manifesto if they have not done so and then respond.
LINK > www.anu.edu.au...
Ask yourself 3 questions if you think communism is such a bad idea -
1) Why do the powers that be seek to crush it ruthlessly wherever it tries to take root if it is not a genuine threat to their ideals.
2) Why is the communist manifesto consistently lied about as being undemocratic when it fact it espouses the most liberal form of democracy that their is
3) If the current system is the true way to wealth why is the majority of the world growing poorer and the rich getting richer
reply posted on 2-4-2009 @ 06:59 PM by John Matrix
We are all slaves under capitalism. We pay our masters a good portion of our earnings and they(the politicians) squander it by giving themselves
raises, pensions, and health care benefits while the rest of us go bankrupt getting an appendectomy and loose our homes for unpaid tax bills.
I won't go as far as supporting communism, but you should check out this page:
[edit on 2/4/09 by John Matrix]
I won't go as far as supporting communism, but you should check out this page:
www.newformulation.org...
[edit on 2/4/09 by John Matrix]
reply posted on 2-4-2009 @ 07:04 PM by count66
reply to post by Solomons
True what you say about too much power being centred in too few hands for example a parliment or senate elected for 5 years continuously without the right to recall.
Under true marxist communism each member of a government is subject to immediate recall once a certain percentage of the population sign a peition to demand same.
The true democracy of communism needs to be throughly understood by all if the message is ever to get out.
Unfortunately the first thing most people associate with the word communism are the autocratic states of China, North Korea and stalinist Soviet Union which were never true communist states.
[edit on 2-4-2009 by count66]
[edit on 2-4-2009 by count66]
True what you say about too much power being centred in too few hands for example a parliment or senate elected for 5 years continuously without the right to recall.
Under true marxist communism each member of a government is subject to immediate recall once a certain percentage of the population sign a peition to demand same.
The true democracy of communism needs to be throughly understood by all if the message is ever to get out.
Unfortunately the first thing most people associate with the word communism are the autocratic states of China, North Korea and stalinist Soviet Union which were never true communist states.
[edit on 2-4-2009 by count66]
[edit on 2-4-2009 by count66]
reply posted on 2-4-2009 @ 07:17 PM by cbianchi513
While I appreciate your research, I urge you to look at a few counter points... Nearly all examples of communist run nations have failed. There
remains, to my immediate knowledge (limited) Cuba, North Korea and North Vietnam, Laos, and of course the PRC. The list of failed communist states
include the USSR, a vast array of independant states now... Cambodia, Mongolia, Yemen, Afghanistan, The Czech Republic, East Germany, Romania, and
several other eastern bloc nations, the Balkans, and a whole mess of countries in Africa including Somalia and the Congo.
If we made a "Ben Franklin" style pro/con table, it's pretty clear where history has shown us communism as a form of government lies. I like history. It's fun.
I really thought (read:hoped) this thread was going to be all smarmy, starting with pointing out that we live in a fascist regime. Communists are historically the mortal enemies of fascists, notably Il Duce himself!
www1.yadvashem.org...
Or, WAS he?
www.tfp.org...
Lots of fun, history.
If we made a "Ben Franklin" style pro/con table, it's pretty clear where history has shown us communism as a form of government lies. I like history. It's fun.
I really thought (read:hoped) this thread was going to be all smarmy, starting with pointing out that we live in a fascist regime. Communists are historically the mortal enemies of fascists, notably Il Duce himself!
www1.yadvashem.org...
Or, WAS he?
www.tfp.org...
Lots of fun, history.
reply posted on 2-4-2009 @ 07:17 PM by Solomons
reply to post by count66
I know that communism was perverted and nothing like true communism in the countries you speak of,but an all powerful government..even more so than today..i'd be hard pressed to trust anyone in that sort of position,nevermind the corruption which could flourish.Nice on paper,but i think our culture and society has to progress alot further before it would be feasable imo.
I know that communism was perverted and nothing like true communism in the countries you speak of,but an all powerful government..even more so than today..i'd be hard pressed to trust anyone in that sort of position,nevermind the corruption which could flourish.Nice on paper,but i think our culture and society has to progress alot further before it would be feasable imo.
reply posted on 2-4-2009 @ 07:22 PM by count66
reply to post by charlyv
Well firstly there are no true communist countries in the world at the moment which obviously you don't comprehend hence the reason I stated read the communist manifesto before you reply which obviously you haven't.
Secondly, the only one true communist state that ever existed was that of the soviet union prior to Stalin which raised the living standards of the population there quite rapidly.
In fact the success of the state become such a worry to the rest of the elite that more troops were stationed in Lenins Soviet Union from more countries then participated in the first world war. This led to a disastrous and mistakenly labeled civil war in which many of the true communists were killed and which also allowed a situation to develop where a strong autocratic leader like Stalin was able to take power - a situation akin to that of the chaos of the Weimar republic where Hitler was also able to take power.
Thirdly no patriot ever gave their life fighting communism - maybe fighting autocracy but definitely not fighting communism.
Open your eyes and don't believe the propaganda which is what my post is about. The true message of communism is a danger to the powers that be hence their unfortunately successful efforts to hide this message in false propaganda.
That is the true conspiracy.
Well firstly there are no true communist countries in the world at the moment which obviously you don't comprehend hence the reason I stated read the communist manifesto before you reply which obviously you haven't.
Secondly, the only one true communist state that ever existed was that of the soviet union prior to Stalin which raised the living standards of the population there quite rapidly.
In fact the success of the state become such a worry to the rest of the elite that more troops were stationed in Lenins Soviet Union from more countries then participated in the first world war. This led to a disastrous and mistakenly labeled civil war in which many of the true communists were killed and which also allowed a situation to develop where a strong autocratic leader like Stalin was able to take power - a situation akin to that of the chaos of the Weimar republic where Hitler was also able to take power.
Thirdly no patriot ever gave their life fighting communism - maybe fighting autocracy but definitely not fighting communism.
Open your eyes and don't believe the propaganda which is what my post is about. The true message of communism is a danger to the powers that be hence their unfortunately successful efforts to hide this message in false propaganda.
That is the true conspiracy.
reply posted on 2-4-2009 @ 07:29 PM by count66
reply to post by Solomons
I hear what your saying but I would disagree slightly as I think it was proven to work successfully in the first ten years of the Soviet Union before the mass military actions of the other nations determine to crush the revolution, which in turn led to Stalin etc.
Another element of communism that seems to often get left out of debates is also the fact that communism cannot be a single state run solution - it must be a multi state run solution as different assets are sourced in different nations and therefore need to be shared equally.
Lenin and Trotsky recognised this fact and never wanted a single communist state - it was Stalin and Mao etc who developed this philosophy as it allowed them to centralise power.
I think humanity often under rates itself and people have become so apathetic due to the constant grind of daily life and the struggle to earn a wage that they never get the time to really scrutinise their politicians and the way things are run. If we had true democracy under a proper international communist solution all members of government are subject to immediate recall and hence power can be kept at the roots.
In the soviet union, the war killed many of the true communists leaving strong men like Stalin in power - plus war allows and demands the centralisation of power - thus the true revolution was killed and so far has never been repeated.
I hear what your saying but I would disagree slightly as I think it was proven to work successfully in the first ten years of the Soviet Union before the mass military actions of the other nations determine to crush the revolution, which in turn led to Stalin etc.
Another element of communism that seems to often get left out of debates is also the fact that communism cannot be a single state run solution - it must be a multi state run solution as different assets are sourced in different nations and therefore need to be shared equally.
Lenin and Trotsky recognised this fact and never wanted a single communist state - it was Stalin and Mao etc who developed this philosophy as it allowed them to centralise power.
I think humanity often under rates itself and people have become so apathetic due to the constant grind of daily life and the struggle to earn a wage that they never get the time to really scrutinise their politicians and the way things are run. If we had true democracy under a proper international communist solution all members of government are subject to immediate recall and hence power can be kept at the roots.
In the soviet union, the war killed many of the true communists leaving strong men like Stalin in power - plus war allows and demands the centralisation of power - thus the true revolution was killed and so far has never been repeated.
reply posted on 2-4-2009 @ 07:32 PM by count66
reply to post by cbianchi513
Thanks for your post.
However I would like to point out that there only ever has been one true communist regime and that was quite successful - it lasted for 10 years before the war initiated by the elitists killed the dream.
That was the first ten years or so of the original Soviet Union and definitely not to be confused with Stalinism or North Korea etc
Thanks for your post.
However I would like to point out that there only ever has been one true communist regime and that was quite successful - it lasted for 10 years before the war initiated by the elitists killed the dream.
That was the first ten years or so of the original Soviet Union and definitely not to be confused with Stalinism or North Korea etc
reply posted on 2-4-2009 @ 07:34 PM by count66
reply to post by infolurker
No party exists in true communism - only the power of the people.
Unfortunately your making an all too common mistake of associating autocratic socialists states with communism.
What we have currently is actually not much better - a corporate run world run by cronyism where 10% of the world control the rest of us. That is a single party universal oppression hidden in the illusion of democracy and the capitalist dream
No party exists in true communism - only the power of the people.
Unfortunately your making an all too common mistake of associating autocratic socialists states with communism.
What we have currently is actually not much better - a corporate run world run by cronyism where 10% of the world control the rest of us. That is a single party universal oppression hidden in the illusion of democracy and the capitalist dream
reply posted on 2-4-2009 @ 07:35 PM by John Matrix
reply to post by charlyv
We are all slaves under capitalism and our style of democracy. There has to be a better way.
What's wrong with discussing the pros and cons of different systems? I think that's really what the OP is about....looking for something better.
I've been doing the same lately. That's when I started learning about a participatory economy based government. I'm not saying I'm done looking. I personally want to learn as much as I can about alternatives to Capitalism. Attempting to guilt people into shutting down the exchange of ideas is not going to do anyone any good.
We are all slaves under capitalism and our style of democracy. There has to be a better way.
What's wrong with discussing the pros and cons of different systems? I think that's really what the OP is about....looking for something better.
I've been doing the same lately. That's when I started learning about a participatory economy based government. I'm not saying I'm done looking. I personally want to learn as much as I can about alternatives to Capitalism. Attempting to guilt people into shutting down the exchange of ideas is not going to do anyone any good.
) reply posted on 2-4-2009 @ 07:42 PM by count66
reply to post by cbianchi513
I agree that most attempts so far at communism have failed but the reason for that failure is that those so called communist revolutions were sponsored by Autocratic Socialist states and not by communist states as in itself there cannot be by ideology a communist state as it must be an international solution.
Also, there are quite interesting experiments going on in Latin America at the moment - not quite communist but definitely heading that way, e.g. Bolivia. It will be interesting to see how these poorer countries fare out in the next few years.
I agree that most attempts so far at communism have failed but the reason for that failure is that those so called communist revolutions were sponsored by Autocratic Socialist states and not by communist states as in itself there cannot be by ideology a communist state as it must be an international solution.
Also, there are quite interesting experiments going on in Latin America at the moment - not quite communist but definitely heading that way, e.g. Bolivia. It will be interesting to see how these poorer countries fare out in the next few years.
reply posted on 2-4-2009 @ 07:47 PM by count66
reply to post by justsomeboreddude
Communism contrary to most peoples understanding actually advocates greater reward for greater production but just that reward has to be within the fair and reasonable means that you need to live - i.e. all someone really needs to live a fairly extravegent lifestyle would be if they had free housing and car, about €70,000 a year of disposable income.
Not the multiple millions that are paid to some people today.
Also with the need for profit removed, then peoples production can be put to good uses - e.g. why have several of our top scientist competing in different multinationals to be the first to produce a cure when they could share their knowledge and produce that cure more quickly and then distribute that to those who need it for free rather then charge ridiculous prices
Communism contrary to most peoples understanding actually advocates greater reward for greater production but just that reward has to be within the fair and reasonable means that you need to live - i.e. all someone really needs to live a fairly extravegent lifestyle would be if they had free housing and car, about €70,000 a year of disposable income.
Not the multiple millions that are paid to some people today.
Also with the need for profit removed, then peoples production can be put to good uses - e.g. why have several of our top scientist competing in different multinationals to be the first to produce a cure when they could share their knowledge and produce that cure more quickly and then distribute that to those who need it for free rather then charge ridiculous prices
Newest topics, updated in real-time:
Occupy Wall street, we are witnessing social revolution.
Social Issues and Civil Unrest, Posted 2 hours ago
Social Issues and Civil Unrest, Posted 2 hours ago
Newest topics getting flags, in real-time:
Google accidentally released Maine election results early!
2012 US Elections, Posted 7 hours ago, 37 flags
2012 US Elections, Posted 7 hours ago, 37 flags
Threatened by a Ron Paul victory in Maine, GOP (insider spills beans) adds last minute caucuses.
2012 US Elections, Posted 12 hours ago, 28 flags
2012 US Elections, Posted 12 hours ago, 28 flags
Current Potential Habitable Worlds - Update February 2012
Space Exploration, Posted 15 hours ago, 22 flags
Space Exploration, Posted 15 hours ago, 22 flags
Greek police union wants to arrest EU/IMF officials
Breaking Alternative News, Posted 12 hours ago, 13 flags
Breaking Alternative News, Posted 12 hours ago, 13 flags
Newest topics getting replies, in real-time:
BREAKING rumour: Kim Jong-Un assassinated?
Breaking Political News, Posted 17 hours ago, 180 replies
Breaking Political News, Posted 17 hours ago, 180 replies
Most Canadians want the death penalty back
Breaking Alternative News, Posted 16 hours ago, 97 replies
Breaking Alternative News, Posted 16 hours ago, 97 replies
Google accidentally released Maine election results early!
2012 US Elections, Posted 7 hours ago, 67 replies
2012 US Elections, Posted 7 hours ago, 67 replies
Massive Obama Conspiracy to Kill the Second Amendment
US Political Madness, Posted 10 hours ago, 63 replies
US Political Madness, Posted 10 hours ago, 63 replies
The Above Top Secret Web sites are a
wholly owned social content community of
The Above Network, LLC.
This content community relies on
user-generated content from our member contributors.
The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership
who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides
a collaborative venue for free expression.
ATS Server: www3.theabovenetwork.com
Header data: 0.002 seconds
Page processed in: 0.216 seconds
wholly owned social content community of
The Above Network, LLC.
This content community relies on
user-generated content from our member contributors.
The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership
who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides
a collaborative venue for free expression.
ATS Server: www3.theabovenetwork.com
Header data: 0.002 seconds
Page processed in: 0.216 seconds
