Christianity you have now overstepped the mark and I now declare war upon you

Originally posted by pause4thought

Declaring war on those who tell children about Christ is about stopping children from moving towards Christianity. That's the whole point of the OP.
[edit on 8/3/09 by pause4thought]

How are the children moving towards Christianity though? Are they walking to him under their own volition attracted to a message, or are they being lured/taken there? It's a very important distinction because, if the clarion call is loud enough and the message good enough, they'll find it anyway - rendering crappy tactics used by this school as redundant or unnecessary.

reply to post by TheWriter


You know I wasn't sure if that poster was serious or doing a bit of a spoof of us more, um, enthusiastic Christians.

Well you know I didn't mean to get so caught up in this thread but it really has been such an interesting insight into another culture for me I just can't resist. But I totally forgot about that fingerprint thing Moo was talking about.

Moocowman, what was that about again? Can you please explain what precisely this fingerprint "thing" is and what it means and why it was implemented without your knowledge or consent? Is it a big privacy concern? So far as I know we don't have anything similar in the USA. However more parents are voluntarily having their children's fingerprints registered with law enforcement (FBI, I think) to aid in recovering or identifying missing/exploited children. That is certainly a subject I'd love to hear more about, if you don't mind.

Any further posts directed at another member and not the Topic, will result in warnings.

On Topic please

Thank you

Semper

It appears the OP has an axe to grind against Christianity and even refuses to spell it correctly. I would presume the OP to be of the Atheist belief though I could be mistaken. However as for whither God exists or not for some it can not/never be proven. So lets look at it from possibility point of view.

When a person says "there is no God", that is an absolute statement that requires absolute knowledge. Lets say, and I will be generous here, you possessed 1% of all the knowledge in the whole universe. Is it not possible out of the 99% that you do not posses that there is ample proof that God exists? Should you say no, then you have an agenda devoid of any facts. If you say yes, then for you the question is still open to conjecture and the search for truth.

The real problem boils down to this; Jesus said we were to love God with all our heart, mind, soul, strength and our neighbor as ourself. It is obvious that the OP is not interested in doing either of the two and doesn't want his/her child learning this either.

Christianity you have now overstepped the mark and I now declare war upon you

Bigotry and hatred abound in this world and passing it on to your kids is a great offense. I know the OP doesn't believe in Jesus, but should it be true and I believe it is, Jesus said that harming a child was such an offense that on the day of judgment it would have been better for you to never have been born.

People have a choice, they can bet their life that its not true and hope they are right or decide to follow Jesus in the hope that it is. If you choose the former you have 100% to loose if your wrong. Choose the later and you lost nothing but at least tried to live a Christ like life and love your neighbor as yourself. What ever happened to the Golden Rule...Oh ya they took it out of our schools and our courts and now see what we have that took its place.

The OP has a right to their opinion and how they raise their children. Though should the child end up professing bigotry and hatred along with no tolerance towards others and their beliefs the OP will only have him/herself to blame.

As for my children, they chose to believe what they wanted and I did not force them in any one direction. I simply put forth the information and let them decide.

It is rather sad that ATS allows the direct hatred focused on Christians to continue but should it be focused upon any other belief it is quickly stopped. Shameful :shk: but then again Jesus said; "they will persecute you, throw you in prison, hate you and kill you. For my names sake because they first hated me." (paraphrased). His words have rang true throughout the ages since His crucification and resurrection.

Jesus Christ!

We all have to believe in something,who cares what it is?

I agree with the OP that they should have been made aware about what the school was offering in ways of religious teachings,seems like the school has just taken it upon themselves to assume that all pupils will be following that belief system.

Originally posted by Tizer
We all have to believe in something,who cares what it is?

Those who disagree with you.

General Question
Since when is it possible to "teach" a belief system?
Isn't it called a belief system, because people believe in it?

Any attempt to teach a belief equals brainwashing.

When I read the thread, it was crystal clear what this person had in mind. I still cannot do more than agree. My agreement is based on common sense.

Greetings

PS: Is "common sense" an oxymoron?

[edit on 8-3-2009 by TheWriter]

reply to post by pstrron

I think perhaps Moocowman's real issue got lost in his unfortunate choice of words to vent his frustration.

I've been on this thread longer than is sensible so please forgive me if I have some bits wrong, but it was my understanding that he doesn't so much object to Christianity being taught ABOUT, as long as it is part of an overall overview of religions.

His objection and his anger came about as a result of a. Christianity being forced upon his daughter as a practice (proselytizing) and b. his daughter being subjected to punitive measures when she attempted to present her own views and when she (or her dad on her behalf--don't remember now) wanted to be exempted from actively taking part in Christian worship activities.

Additionally there was some kind of fingerprinting his daughter was forced to undergo without his knowledge or consent. So the core issue here is not religion, per se, but the fact that these teachers and administrators overstepped their bounds.

Good point Maybe teach isnt the right word.

What happens in a religious study class then?

Arent they taught lessons? Are they just given a bible and expected to "believe" what is inside?

Isnt there lots of lessons in the bible?

sorry for my ignorance

Originally posted by TheWriter
General Question
Since when is it possible to "teach" a belief system?
Isn't it called a belief system, because people believe in it?

Any attempt to teach a belief equals brainwashing.

I allude to something similar a few posts back. If the message stood up of its own accord then it wouldn't need to be 'taught' or pushed-on people, whether they are children or adults. It should be enough to make them just to make them aware of its existence and if they're dawn to it and move toward it under their own volition, then fine, but not because someone tells them 'this is how it is'. That said, I'm unsure about instructing children in religion as opposed to educating them regarding any cultural or historical context.

That the vast majority of people are Christians as opposed to Muslims, Hindus or Buddhists (and vice versa) isn't down to the strength or the weight of the actual message, it's purely down to arbitrary basis that they are born in a culture where that particular religion is the dominant cultural factor.

Originally posted by SheepleFlavored
reply to post by pstrron

 

I think perhaps Moocowman's real issue got lost in his unfortunate choice of words to vent his frustration.

I beg to differ. I want to ask anyone to re-read the thread again. It is not an unfortunate choice of words. MOST people only read what they want to read. MOST people only hear what they want to hear. MOST people only see what they want to see.

I always assume that I am dealing with grown up people, capable of thinking for themselves. That's the biggest mistake I make. I even may end up in hell for my belief in the goodness in people.

Apart from those who cannot think for themselves, there is another issue. I assume there is a good deal of members who want to post a stipulated number of postings each day. This can only be accomplished, if one doesn't read postings conscientiously and ponders on the words for a while. This is another reason for mis-interpreting texts.

BTW, I don't think that this posting is off-topic. It deals with the problem very much. But it is often most important to clarify the most rudimentary issues, before we can get down to the nitty-gritty.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
That said, I'm unsure about instructing children in religion as opposed to educating them regarding any cultural or historical context.

Don't teach belief systems. Teach how to respect people. No matter what they believe in.

Great posting.

Greetings

[edit on 8-3-2009 by TheWriter]

reply to post by SheepleFlavored

His objection and his anger came about as a result of a. Christianity being forced upon his daughter as a practice (proselytizing) and b. his daughter being subjected to punitive measures when she attempted to present her own views and when she (or her dad on her behalf--don't remember now) wanted to be exempted from actively taking part in Christian worship activities.

Not far off the mark dude however, it's not a case of wanting exemption in taking part in any sort of worship my argument is that there shouldn't be any worship to begin with so as to be exempted from.

I send my child to school for an education not to be indoctrinated into the religious beliefs of others, if I want my children to be exposed to a religion I'll do it myself.

I'm quite happy for my kids to have exposure of multicultural topics, this is not an issue.

My signature says it all

"That the vast majority of people are Christians as opposed to Muslims, Hindus or Buddhists (and vice versa) isn't down to the strength or the weight of the actual message, it's purely down to arbitrary basis that they are born in a culture where that particular religion is the dominant cultural factor. "

Yes, i agree.

I remember having a bible and reading it from the age of 7 to 11 give or take a few. Thing is, not one person in my family had a bible,im sure i was given it from a priest who came to my primary school at that time,can't quite remember. I think that a search for understanding life lead me to it,im still searching,although as i age and experience life i "believe" that understanding life must come from within.Not from the pages of book.

reply to post by Anubis3.14




No, it claims to know.
two peas ina pod.

reply to post by SheepleFlavored

His objection and his anger came about as a result of a. Christianity being forced upon his daughter as a practice (proselytizing) and b. his daughter being subjected to punitive measures when she attempted to present her own views and when she (or her dad on her behalf--don't remember now) wanted to be exempted from actively taking part in Christian worship activities.

Smack on the nail hear mate, why on earth should I have to ask that my child not to be exempted, from someone elses beliefs ? They should be asking me if my child could join in with their cult. "My answer would be certainly not, I didn't even know you were doing this at the school, to begin with."

I don't care what god these people choose to worship to, they are adults and can do what they like in their own home or at church. But they have no right to bring their church to my child at school, and certainly no right to discriminate against my child for not choosing to be involved in their worshiping.

"I don't care what god these people choose to worship to, they are adults and can do what they like in their own home or at church. But they have no right to bring their church to my child at school, and certainly no right to discriminate against my child for not choosing to be involved in their worshiping."

Agree 100%

You should have been made aware what the religious beliefs of the school were.

Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by Fromabove

 

Is that Islam, and forced worship knocking at the door to the UK?

Yep that's right my friend but the forced worship s from xtians.

And as for going to war against a god , well I don't prescribe to the invisible man in the sky cult.
But there again let's give benefit of the doubt, if this god is real and is the creator of all that there is or ever will be, omnipotent omnipresent. Then this god not only knows how i feel and think but why I do as this god would have created me.
As this god has created me and is the creator of all that there is, then there cannot be anything that god has not crated or will not create, so this god has created me to go to war with it, I cannot know why it has done this as apparently no man can know the mind of god.

I have no choice in this matter as I was created and being created act in the manner of my creators intention.

As it is alleged that my creator is all that there is, then I cannot act in away that I was not intended, should I act in a way that was not intended by that which is alleged created me then my creator cannot be all that there is.

Good job I don't prescribe to this particular belief system then, or I would be spending the best part of my life trying to figure what I should be doing and not actually doing anything.



[edit on 7-3-2009 by moocowman]

i have been watching this thread with interest untill now, you dont want your kids to know anything other than the submisive & surrendering ideoligy called islam that is forced on the english by islamic hate preachers, & now you are in the uk, a christian country complaining your kids are getting exposed to christianity. well since no one has pointed this out to you yet, maybe home schooling by home i mean in an islamic country, then you would have nothing to complain about right ?. & may i remind you here in the uk the knife cuts both ways, islam wants to be recognised in uk public schools well its only fair that if islam wants to polute young minds with its hate, then islamic children, your islamic children should also be poluted with christianity. or dont you like the idea of being fair ?.
you must also understand
we do not hate islam, we just hate what muslims do.

"i have been watching this thread with interest untill now, you dont want your kids to know anything other than the submisive & surrendering ideoligy called islam that is forced on the english by islamic hate preachers, & now you are in the uk, a christian country complaining your kids are getting exposed to christianity. well since no one has pointed this out to you yet, maybe home schooling by home i mean in an islamic country, then you would have nothing to complain about right ?. & may i remind you here in the uk the knife cuts both ways, islam wants to be recognised in uk public schools well its only fair that if islam wants to polute young minds with its hate, then islamic children, your islamic children should also be poluted with christianity. or dont you like the idea of being fair ?.
you must also understand
we do not hate islam, we just hate what muslims do. "

Also agree 100%

No religious belief system should be rammed down anyone's throat!

Actually, i just found a feather in my room,im now going to believe in and have faith in my feather i love my feather and really "believe" in my feather.