Christianity you have now overstepped the mark and I now declare war upon you

reply to post by moocowman


I won't offer soppy understanding to your plight but just a tad of facts sprinkled with a little opinion.

The UK is not a "secular" state, its a Christian state and that Christianity is (unlike the US) a part of its constitution. A quick look at the Bishop's benches in the house of Lords, the ceremony of coronation, the flag etc. should demonstrate this to you. Schools are legally obliged to give religious education, indeed religious instruction was part of the national syllabus before any of the other subjects. You seem to be seekng a "Secularist" school rather than a secular (i.e. non-church school) if that's the case then it was your parental responsibility, and right, to seek such a school. If you failed to investigate the school you sent your child to concerning an issue you so evidently feel strongly about then the failure is not the school's but your's as a parent with your own particular world view.

Some are complaining about "segregation" why? Is this not precisely what you are seeking that an exception be made to the law for your child? If so, then that's what it involves, swallow it or move the child to another school when, with parental responsibility, you investigate and enquire.

The brain-washing charge is utter and complete nonsense. If you believe that Christian schools, let alone non-Church state schools are turning out a sequence of mindless fundamentalists then might I ask where you live?

The nonsense of "brain-washing" is manifest in the secular society in which we live. Go to any Catholic/Anglican parish with a school and be amazed at how poorly the "brain-washing" program is working as you note the empty pews on a Sunday morning and the lack of children. An average Catholic/Anglican parish will have an attached primary school with 300 children on the roll and lo-and-behold they'll consider it wonderful if 30 of those children attend Church services.

Might I suggest you instead of declaring war on Christianity examine your own parental responsibilities and have a look at the reality around you. If you find these brain-washed zombie children passing through the gates of the school then you might have a point, but as you won't try not to rail against something you do not, nor have nay desire, to understand. You might even educate your child to join you in your war, won't that be fun - a bit of hatred, thats just what their young mind needs.

Originally posted by cooler
& now you are in the uk, a christian country

That's actually very debatable. Historically, Britain is a culturally Christian country but I'm not sure how Britain in 2009 can be described as 'Christian' at all. It's Sunday today, and I guarantee that only a tiny fraction of the population will be going to a Christian church today. I'll similarly guarantee that most of the population will only every attend church or a church service for a token christening, a marriage ceremony that will appear more 'posh' or 'traditional', or a funeral where a service is conducted by a priest who probably won't know the deceased from Adam.

To illustrate a point, one of the demographics where the Catholic Church is seeing a small rise in attendance from native populations is from parents trying to buck school 'catchment' problems regarding local schools where there's an element of token conversion in desperation so that their children aren't sent to schools with massive class sizes or reputations for being rough or bad exam results or being too far away.

I'd be more worried about the school taking your child's biometrics; surely you can take them to court for not asking for permission? I just find that bang out of order. As for your child being taught about Christianity, I am with you on this one. You should have a free choice of what you believe in, schools are not there to instill a belief system into you, and they are there for you to learn.

I went to a "Church of England" primary school due to them not having any room in other schools. I learned about Christianity and didn't believe in it at an early age; I was even shouted at and told of by my teachers for not believing in Jesus. Anyways most people in England seem to grow out of believing in Christianity by the time they leave primary school these days but you shouldn't get so worked up about. I would take the ‘fingerprinting’ issue further though. Our children are being brainwashed into giving away their identities to the state as they are struggling to pass laws to force the population to do so, it’s there only fallback to try and control us.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by cooler
& now you are in the uk, a christian country

That's actually very debatable. Historically, Britain is a culturally Christian country but I'm not sure how Britain in 2009 can be described as 'Christian' at all. It's Sunday today, and I guarantee that only a tiny fraction of the population will be going to a Christian church today. I'll similarly guarantee that most of the population will only every attend church or a church service for a token christening, a marriage ceremony that will appear more 'posh' or 'traditional', or a funeral where a service is conducted by a priest who probably won't know the deceased from Adam.

To illustrate a point, one of the demographics where the Catholic Church is seeing a small rise in attendance from native populations is from parents trying to buck school 'catchment' problems regarding local schools where there's an element of token conversion in desperation so that their children aren't sent to schools with massive class sizes or reputations for being rough or bad exam results or being too far away.

yes its been like that i the uk for ages, but this is a good example of the failed multiculturism in the uk.
& is also a good example of the apparent tolorant religion being once again intolorant. tension over this refusal to intergrate will only continue unill...................?.

YF got it right, right from the start. Educate your child yourself, if you’re so passionate about what they are taught. Yes, it will mean sacrifice on your part, but you seem willing to sacrifice since you invoked the word ‘war’.

Instead of fighting city hall, why don’t you just leave the field of battle and remove your child from their influence? The time you use teaching your child yourself will be much more rewarding and much better spent than if you use it battling a beaurocracy.

"It's Sunday today, and I guarantee that only a tiny fraction of the population will be going to a Christian church today. I'll similarly guarantee that most of the population will only every attend church or a church service for a token christening, a marriage ceremony that will appear more 'posh' or 'traditional', or a funeral where a service is conducted by a priest who probably won't know the deceased from Adam.
"

Cant get parked at my door from the cars of people going to church! Actually going to put a few signs on the car windscreens because of the parking! "Please do not block driveway's,we can't all walk to church"

God Bless

reply to post by moocowman

Originally posted by moocowman
she was informed by the teacher that Jesus Christ is a very real person and god

To learn what Christianity is all about they have to understand this concept about the religion. Without it, there is no Christianity, thus everything about the religion is bunk. I would imagine that this was said about each religion they were tought in the class where that is a main idea.

Originally posted by moocowman
...she was given there was also a “BIBLE”!!!!!!!!

How else is a student going to learn about a subject, no matter what it is, without a book to learn from?

Originally posted by moocowman
..which was taught by a Christian..

IMO, each religion should have been tought by a teacher that belived in the respective religion. You can teach what you don't believe but if you did not believe 2+2=4 would you qualified to teach it?

It honestly seems to me that you just didn't want the child to learn about Christianity since you did not mention any other religion in your post. You had a vendetta against this religion before even declaring this "war". You should have had the child "segregated" from this religion class if you did not want them to learn it. There is nothing wrong with that. I remember parents doing that to kids when I was in grade school when religions were taught such as the Greek gods. They just get put in a study hall where they learn something else or where they can do homework.

You just appear to not want your child to be a Christian thus you are doing what you despise them to be doing in shoving a belief system down their throat. You believe Christianity is wrong so you are, in essence, shoving that belief down your childs throat.

Originally posted by moocowman
..to publicly debunk Christianity in front of young people.

So you are going to shove down other peoples childrens throats your belief system, in which in your opening paragraphs, you appear to despise so much. Fighting fire with fire, I guess, in this "war". Best of luck with that.

Originally posted by Tizer
Cant get parked at my door from the cars of people going to church! Actually going to put a few signs on the car windscreens because of the parking! "Please do not block driveway's,we can't all walk to church"

God Bless

That might be your own personal and localised one, but you're deluding yourself if you believe that to be anyway representative of the country as a whole. The fact is that secondary usage of churches - as festival halls, polling booths, youth clubs, administrative centres and so on - is the only real way many Christian churches are staying open in this country.

Enjoy the Halal meat they're forcing down your childs neck my friend, why don't you just force whatever you believe down your childs throat instead.

i attended a community college course on world religions. we learned about nearly every major religion EXCEPT, islam, christianity and judaism. i was stumped. i can see them thinking that perhaps the students would know enough about christianity since they lived in a primarily christian country. but even as a student of history, i still had only scant knowledge on islam and post-christ judaism. we did spend, however, nearly half the semester on hinduism (which was fascinating, btw) and briefly skimmed over buddhism, taoism and wicca. in fact, the last day of class, we had a speaker who claimed to be the head wiccan priestess for the state where i live. to say the professor was playing favorites, would be putting it mildly. he was hindu. cool class, coulda been cooler though.

[edit on 8-3-2009 by undo]

So in a few posts we see the intellectual bankruptcy of these warriors against Christianity - ascribing to it absolutely no power, declaring it a nonsense, proclaiming its death etc. etc. yet at the same time venting so much spleen on this powerless entity, even going to war against something they declare to be dead.

It really is quite remarkable. Either its powerless and defunct or powerful and ubiquitous, you can only have it both ways if you're motivated by a zealous adherence to your own nihilistic belief system.

reply to post by SheepleFlavored

I think perhaps Moocowman's real issue got lost in his unfortunate choice of words to vent his frustration.

Reread the thread, his/her position is quite clear and when he/she said war that is what he/she meant.

Christianity you have now overstepped the mark and I now declare war upon you

This is hatred towards another belief other than the OP's own.

Additionally there was some kind of fingerprinting his daughter was forced to undergo without his knowledge or consent. So the core issue here is not religion, per se, but the fact that these teachers and administrators overstepped their bounds.

Finger printing without consent or knowledge of the parent is not acceptable and I would have cause to be upset. Though the core issue was in regards to the RE classes and being mostly Christian. The opening statement made this quite clear.The fingerprinting part seemed to be a side issue but an issue none the less. An issue the OP should be concerned about and is to a lesser degree.

reply to post by Supercertari


i find religion to be absolutely fascinating, particularly judeo-christianity, and the old mesopotamian (sumer, akkad) and egyptian beliefs. i have really no idea why people on both sides -- believers and non-believers alike are using the topic to hurt each other. ...

i've been playing a mmorpg (online game) with alot of people i don't know in real life. there are two factions within that are constantly warring with each other. i chose a side, created a character and went along to see what message it was trying to present. i read the history. studied the memes. then chose the opposing side, made a character, to see what happened there as well. i saw it from both sides. now get this:

there was no reason whatsoever for the real people who play those characters to not like each other based purely on which faction they decided to play, but it's true... some of them have a problem with prejudice. they pick a side and never leave that side and proclaim the other side as evil. they never try to see it from the viewpoint of the other side, nor do they cut each other any slack. this however, is not the norm. the norm is most of the players have characters in both factions for the same reasons i did. to see what was going on, what it's about and what it's like. not selling out, just learning.

Originally posted by Supercertari
So in a few posts we see the intellectual bankruptcy of these warriors against Christianity - ascribing to it absolutely no power, declaring it a nonsense, proclaiming its death etc. etc. yet at the same time venting so much spleen on this powerless entity, even going to war against something they declare to be dead.

It really is quite remarkable. Either its powerless and defunct or powerful and ubiquitous, you can only have it both ways if you're motivated by a zealous adherence to your own nihilistic belief system.

Well as there's some tacit reference to me here, I might as well respond.

I think it's you that's actually having problems comprehending the issues here. There's been several references to the 'Church of England' and that Britain is 'Christian' as if either of those two notions have some large influence over the population. This is very debatable as, for the population generally, any relationship to Christianity is debatable - and I say this as an observation more than anything else.

This point is important because it provides an over-arching context to what's specific to Moocowman. If posters are suggesting that this should be happening because it's somehow a Christian country then the idea that it's a Christian country should be looked at because, if that's not as solid as some are suggesting or would like to believe then the idea of this being 'right' is undermined.

Also, whether the Christian church - and this isn't about any particular church as such as this seems to be about a particular school - has any power is immaterial, it's the actual intent that's the issue. If someone attacks me in the street but I give them a good shoeing for their efforts, it's still an issue even though I didn't get the beating they thought I would. The intent is the issue.

The intent is the issue in Moocowman's case. The school might not be successful in being a 'Jesus factory' that churns out Christians every year, but, if is the intent is to churn them out, then it should be addressed. It's a secular school and it shouldn't be happening. That's what faith schools are there for, surely?

Breathe slowly and deeply, and remember that the only way out of this mess is to start working together.

I can certainly understand your frustrations, I grew up in a very christian family and was always told I would go to hell because I didn't accept Jesus. But there really is only peace to be had. I am sure your family will be fine.

Schools will be schools and education will be education. Think freely. Religion causes many problems but is not the root of all of our problems. Seperation, intolerance, hate, racism, violence..all things we have to confront within ourselves. Religion only helps cover those things up. Keeps us from unveiling the truth. And even then, religion has truly helped a lot of people for the best, it isn't all bad.

Be in peace.

[edit on 8-3-2009 by Asmus]

I have sympathy with your position - my own daughter (now a teenager!) seems to have independently made her own mind up on the veracity of religion and its associated fairy tales.

It might be worth communicating with the National Secular Society - they would probably be quite interested in your tale of promoting religious views in a secular school!

www.secularism.org.uk...

reply to post by SheepleFlavored

Moocowman, what was that about again? Can you please explain what precisely this fingerprint "thing" is and what it means and why it was implemented without your knowledge or consent? Is it a big privacy concern? So far as I know we don't have anything similar in the

I am somewhat in the dark about this my friend, as I only learned about it last night when my daughter happened to mention it yesterday.

It just goes to show how our kids will just go along with what their told to do by their teachers.

Apparently of late the school has been asking the children to use this biometric system during registration, it has been going on for some time although the school has not in anyway informed my daughter what they're actually doing.

A very quick search on the web leads me to believe that this Vericool fingerprint ID is manufactured by the same company as the Verichip, I cannot be certain on this of course as I've limited info so far.

I find this situation somewhat insidious in the manner it has been (on appearance) sneaked in without discussion, I cannot see a great deal of difference in this and that of a DNA database of our kids.

The problem I have is that the people who are using this technology upon my child are the very people that would discriminate against my child for not wishing to partake in their religious worship.

Booooo--cowman.
U have a lot of gump to make others believe your way of doing things, im from the uk(which wales is a part of )and GOD is the pick of plenty, an if not like u say (SOCIETY IS LOST ) LIKE IT IS NOW,() A COUNTRY WITHOUT GOD. )
I have 2 kids 19 boy,24 girl and they dont know a hoot about god mothers choice and it shows now they drink party watch pornos.
My new child 18mths now will know god and wont attend lessons on homosexuality. wont worship variety,and will respect what shes got in life and if more people (in my opinion) dont start to put respect,fear( a touch of) into kids upbringing we are screwed ,they will be incharge when we are older (ITSDHTF 2012) BUT I FEEL WERE SCREWED ALL READY.
PRAISE GOD AND IS SON JESUS AMEN


[edit on 8-3-2009 by dashar]

Ha this is great. Your gonna wage a war on Christians I love it. Are you gonna use the ninjas in your pic to attack them. Or car bombs attached to little children?

I haven't read all of the replies, but I got the idea that a lot of them misunderstood that this is about freedom of choice, not whether you are a believer or not. I noticed that you wrote 'xtianity' in stead of 'Christianity' -perhaps a sign of respect to what you believe true religion should be?

For what it is worth, I believe that the one and only 'right' God granted us was freedom of choice. We are free moral agents. He gave Adam and Eve a free choice in deciding which tree to take from. He could have forced the Tree of Life on them, but He didn't. I am sure that He would have explained and taught the difference between the two choices to them. And then He allowed Satan to give another side of the story. Adam and Eve made an informed decision, and were free to believe what they wanted. The consequences of their choice is another story which doesn't belong in this thread ofcourse.

Our children should have the same choice at school: if Bibles are handed out, then perhaps the Koran should be given out as well. I say teach the kids how to gather information, how to judge the sources of this information, and how to make a well informed choice. But if adults don't apply this method for themselves, and go on to believe any story that has been spoon fed into their brains from early childhood or because everyone believes the same thing, whether it is evolution, Christmas or the Ramadan, then how can you expect them to teach children how to be independent thinkers?