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Originally posted by mytquin
Like I said before on a similar thread...I'd rather place my trust in God and after I die, find out he doesn't exist than to NOT believe and find out that he DOES exist when it's too late...oops!
Let us know how that works out for ya bud.
Originally posted by badmedia
Sure, to fix your mistakes is the way to go, but if everyone lived by this rule then advancements wouldn't happen. It is the "crazy" people who dare go outside the box who discover new things.
Again, it's not a matter of them changing their mind. It's the way they treat what they thought they knew as fact before, when it wasn't actually true, and the effects of that.
And here you once again go back to looking for the worse argument to go back to. An unchanged idea for 4000 years? Please, you can only argue against the literal version because it is the only thing you can see in it.
My understandings go well beyond the bible, and I do not see things in the same way as most people.
Sorry, but there is nothing rational about living your life based on what other people can prove to you.
I'll bring you nothing. I speak for those with ears and understanding. Go find out for yourself. That is the point. Any fool can know, the point is to understand.
Well it's called a personal relationship and you will get your own way of understanding. While you may have a unique way of understanding and expressing things, basic concepts and understandings will be the same.
Don't you see how you just copped out of doing it?
Sure, plenty about the flesh, near nothing about the consciousness.
You assume what I say is based off data. It's not. I didn't get my beliefs from the bible. I do not even consider myself to be a Christian and I think the church is the church of Satan.
No, according to me, you wouldn't even need me to tell you such things if you actually took an honest look.
And now you are just looking for ways to avoid the point. Ever heard of a recall? You know why they have recalls? Because the problem exists in all of them.
Quit insulting peoples intelligence with these kinds of cop outs.
The brain is just a tool and command center. Just like the drivers seat. Again you avoid the understanding involved and take things for the literal meaning.
I have little time or patience for such low levels of thinking. And I always find it in both atheists and Christians. You are as blind as those you point fingers at.
First off, I'm not religious.
And once again you stick to the literal. As well, I personally don't care what you do, so long as you don't force me to it. This world doesn't scare me.
For all I know you could be some AI bot and you really don't have a soul, and there is no chance you will ever understand what I say. And believe me when I say this world and society is designed in a way to make you act and be like that, subject to action and reaction.
I mean it is possible to create AI that mimics and appears to be conscious and have a soul. I came up with the logic behind all that. But I realized it wouldn't have a soul or consciousness, and the only way to give it that is either a literal act of god, or for me to put my consciousness into somehow.
I have no problem with animals having souls. I just don't know. I treat them as if they do, because I think it is again - the safe bet.
Do you know why they say there is no logic that can prove or understand god? Because there is no logic that can create or understand consciousness. Logic is great for understanding the universe and many other things, but there just isn't any logic that can create consciousness.
LOL thats funny, I mention that it doesn't take consciousness to observe, and you go off on Artificial Intelligence.
I'm sure you don't think mice are conscious beings... but they not only have the ability to observe, they have the ability to learn from those observations.
Says you? right? apologetics at its best. Invent gods to fit the new realms science shows you. what happened to the 10th dimensional god? is he gone now?
Pure consciousness has no physical being? than how did he walk with moses?
But you do not realize the difference between patterns running based on the logic given, and the actual ability to understand and observe. That which is not conscious is unable to learn new logic.
What does this have to do with the scientific method? are you just talking jibberish now?
In the middle ages there was the black plague... The people at the time didn't understand it, thus, they said god was punishing them...
now, we know what caused it, how it was transmitted, and have in fact narrowed down that the plague entered Europe from a port in Italy, aboard a ship that came from Asia...
If you don't incorperate the new knowledge into your data set... you end up with "god dun it"...
in 2000 years, Christianity in particular, has refused to add new data to their data set... in the situations where it was impossible to ignore the new data, they change the definitions of parts of their religion... or start claiming it was all symbolic and figurative.
We've been through this before. We can recognize the chemical interactions in the brain, and watch thought happening on a screen... science will eventually completely map the mind... and will be able to show you exactly what you're saying consciousness is...
They already have video game controls that you wear on your head... you interface with the game via pure thought... now that is reading consciousness fairly well I would think.
The fact that you decide to assign some sort of divine attribute to conciousness and the fact that you have absolutely no understanding of what it is (scientifically) does NOT mean that it is truely divine in nature... this is just using "god" to explain the unexplainable... and isn't a real answer.
But what you fail to understand is that consciousness is not part of the creation.
Has to be because you've discribed god as pure consciousness... and he said "let us create man in our own image". This was the rationality you used when explaining why god isn't "man shaped".
Nifty little contradiction you have going there.
LOL classic! If I don't agree with you, something must be wrong with my thinking, and I'm somehow inferior to you...
This is actually a pretty common christian response... and you wonder why other religions despise christianity.
Where are these magical molecules that have consciousness in them? You see yourself as being flesh and see yourself as machine. And yes, your body is from the dust of the earth, it is from the creation and it is a machine. But you are the driver, and if you can't understand that, then you will never understand me.
I've said this before... you're the one saying you have all the answers... (especially with the whole consciousness thing) Not me... I say its foolish to make the leap... and will instead wait for science to run its course...
There's no shame in admitting that you don't understand something. For some reason, believers have to attribute misunderstanding to "god"
So we will not find agreement as long as you associate yourself as being flesh rather than soul/consciousness.
Oh we could agree, if science someday finds facts supporting your myths, I'll add that to my data set, and re-evaluate my positions.
But please tell me, to what are the electrical signals in your brain presenting this reality to?
Other chemicals and electrical impluses in your brain... interperited by receptors. You're starting to assign value to something because its a warm fuzzy...
How does an electrical signal become the image you see? If it goes from light to the eyes, converted into electrical signals which go to the back of the brain, to what is that image presented to?
Optical receptors in the area of the brain that controls vision
Originally posted by Fibonacci11235
im not sure that qualified as a video lol but anyway i think epicurus put it b
The Epicurian Riddle... I love it...
Love the screen name BTW
Originally posted by nj2day
To what are feelings presented to? Isn't it beyond just a signal telling you something is happening? If all these things like free will and such are illusions, then to what are the illusions to?
Christ, we could go at this all day... but it doesn't change the fact that just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean it can't be explained. I swear, If science comes up with a way to create "consciousness in a jar", you'd find some other reason to explain your situation...
really? You can prove randomness doesn't exist? I'm sure you're the chaos theory expert now?
Than explain the electron... There are two things we can be sure of when it comes to elections... 1) Its specific location and 2) It's path and where it will be in the future...
Unfortunately, you can never know both at the same time... this has been something Quantum physics has been trying to tackle for a while. that appears to be pretty random to me... and the best thing... is its randomness in the universe... not man made.
Science doesn't know why yet, but it is against the laws of quantum to be able to accurately state both assertions about any given electron. BUT, just because science doesn't understand why, doesn't mean they don't recognize it as a fact.
Ok, I'll concede that point... Randomness is precieved in nature... it might very well be that nothing is random, and its truly just a complex system that is governed by a set of rules in the universe...
I can concede this point, because it might very well be true... BUT if it is true, man will find the answer through science. This is what the "Theory of Everything" is going to achieve.
It may only seem random because we are looking at physics the wrong way.. (I have a few... unconventional views when it comes to physics... don't ask ). But, if it is the case that there is no randomness... than everything follows a specific set of rules in the universe... so specific in fact, that any "dabbling" by a supreme being would upset the balance, and cause a butterfly effect across the ripple of spacetime.
In effect, if there truely are no random numbers... god is powerless to act in our universe, or it will come unraveled.
Originally posted by lunarminer
reply to post by 5thElement
I hate to tell you this, but far more than 6 million people the world over believe in Santa Clause. The fact that most of them are under the age of 8 is really not relevant.
Originally posted by Gregor100
If you can change the future you are not omniscient.
If you cannot you are not omnipotent.
Originally posted by nj2day
I'm sorry I had you confused with someone who believes in jesus.
which god do you identify with, new testament? Old Testament? Koran? bhagivhad gita?
Originally posted by username371
The problem is in the definition of god. It's like saying this:
God can travel to the end of any line, no matter how long.
And then saying "What about a circle? Can god reach the end of that?"
...Oops. There's no end to a circle. So saying god can reach the end of the line on a shape that has no end shows not a problem with god, but a problem with your logical prerequisites you assume define god.
If you believe in god, you understand that god transcends our silly attempts at description.