Enlightenment. What is it and how do we know when we have achieved it?

Ive thought about the nessesity of human suffering... i know that the reason people suffer is because of their ignorance of the greater casuality. In that though is the understanding that things can be avoided if the knowledge could be understood then by them. So is it really nessisary for somone to be hurt by various things to understand them?

How much pain do you think somone needs before they deserve help?

reply to post by KennyRJR


I believe once you start seeing the eyes, you are definitely in tune with the greater conciousness. I've never seen it right in front of me, but the eyes are definitely a clear indicator that you are doing the right thing

Great questions.

Enlightenment is misunderstood. It is not something we achieve and then are forever enlightened and exist as "buddhas", for instance. Nor should it be wasted in life-long contemplation within caves, etc.

Enlightenment is not like a trophy.

For me, it is the ability to open up at will to the light of our higher awareness as Soul. To then be that being here in the physical 3D is the task we all face as we step-up into humanity's next phase of evolution.

My experience was of being prepared with "Guides" (higher-self as primary guide and others as Helpers) over many months, which involved regaining memories of other lives lived in order to know the paths the soul I am has taken to reach NOW.

This was followed by weeks of intensive training with the energy centres called Chakra, cleasing them and healing old issues, etc, before raising the Kundalini from the Base Chakra to the Crown Chakra... which ripped "me" apart so that "I" no longer existed as separate from the Universe. The experience was of being the universe, and knowing all things before I could form a question about any of it.

Afterwards, the higher-self and "I" became One. Then began the real learning and remembering. There is great responsibility with enlightening oneself, it can burn you up if you are not prepared or have unclear perception or unbalanced ego.

What I found was the great power within us all, something that would test you constantly, provide insight you may not ask for or want, require you to step out of all and any comfort zones you may have created for yourself, and more so, it requires you to use the power for the effective-betterment of all things.. not just humans.

You can do many things with this power that we have been indoctrinated into believing could only be supernatural or purely fantasy.

What you do with it is to discover for yourself how immense and powerful a being you are as Soul, then you can choose to be that being here and now or choose to return to conformity, shrinking the self to return to mediocrity. If you choose the former, you will be tested by all those who perceive themselves as superior and hold key positions in your chosen field of work with humanity, but this is so you learn to overcome with unconditional love, to not doubt yourself again, to not be misdirected by others so that you rely solely on the knowledge and insight you have, when you have them.

So, as you see the reality is far from tradtional. And yes, enlightenment is opposed to our modern western culture, but this does not mean that you cannot work through that. In fact, how could we reach the pinnacle of awareness and existence without the toughest opposition? You will find the balance points for yourself and be able then to share what you have within for all humanity, the earth and everything that LIVES on it.

Be well, thank you.

Originally posted by WertdagfHow much pain do you think somone needs before they deserve help?

I think realizing that life isn't fair, and pain isn't just God punishing you, is the first step.

You can reduce your pain. But that means giving up your preset ideas about how things should be, and how you should think, and how God should think.

Seek change and it will happen, but it starts inside first. If you are willing to change how you think, or try, then all sorts of amazing stuff can happen.

Originally posted by SS,Naga
No, no, & no.

Love and Wisdom are the Two Portals of Mind.

Love is the Container.

Wisdom is the Power.

You are not released or Realized by Love.

Love is Realized by Wisdom.


[edit on 13-1-2009 by SS,Naga]

Love can not be a portal of the mind because I am not of my mind yet I am of love.

Also I am not wise yet I am of complete love.

Love is all, love will always be all. I do not need portals or be wise to feel love, and this I know to be true.

Many in this world are wise, very wise indeed, but their wisdom does not bring them love.

How can you say we are not realized by love? Love is an energy, a frequency sent from your creator,many think its an emotion it is not, it has been sent and is all around you this very moment. You do not need to be wise to feel it, you need to accept it unconditionally, this is all.

Are you to say the uneducated of the world can not feel love because they are not wise? Yes some are very wise without an education but many cant even read and write , are you to say they cant feel this love? How do you arrrive at this that love is felt by wisdom?

Love is unconditional when sent by this greater force, it does not care how "wise" you are.

Originally posted by Sonya610

Originally posted by WertdagfHow much pain do you think somone needs before they deserve help?

I think realizing that life isn't fair, and pain isn't just God punishing you, is the first step.

You can reduce your pain. But that means giving up your preset ideas about how things should be, and how you should think, and how God should think.

Seek change and it will happen, but it starts inside first. If you are willing to change how you think, or try, then all sorts of amazing stuff can happen.

so starving people shouldnt be givin food? Would me feeding them be outside of gods plan?

What is this change you think i should seek?

Originally posted by SS,Naga

That's Right. This Single Eye (not the 3rd Eye) is the Blazing of the Pineal that Becomes the Single Eye: It is Large (about 1-1/2"), Round, and has an Iris (mine is green, what's yours?).

Some see this eye closed. They are Asleep.
Some see this eye open. They are Awakened.

]

I have seen an eye just like this, it was open, its iris was blue, bright blue.

Originally posted by Wertdagfso starving people shouldnt be givin food? Would me feeding them be outside of gods plan?

What is this change you think i should seek?

Okay nevermind then. I thought you were being sincere and non-combative (actually I thought you might be drunk or something, and that was making you real for a moment).

Forget I said anything.

Originally posted by Sonya610

IllusionsareGrander what are your thoughts on that? Did you think they stayed and maintained that constant state of mind?

I would have in times past. But I would not think that now. There is no constant state of mind that "they" remain in, because state of "mind" and state of "you" are not equivalent.

YOU are "consciousness itself," in this view, (I know there are those here who disagree) NOT your mind. You are the watcher of your mind. Your mind can remain troubled and you can Love it, (unconditionally accept what mind is doing) and thus transcend the mind and its state.

You can be angry, for instance, and realize, "oh mind is pissed off" and it may or may not change the state of mind, but "you" gain a distance even from "your own" emotional responses in this way.

It is like thinking of mind/identity as a possession of yours rather than "you yourself."

My clothes are a possession of mine, but if my clothes are dirty it doesnt mean "I" am dirty.

Another thing to understand I would say is that by trying to maintain a constant state of mind you are rejecting what mind really is, and then striving to change it. (Both of which move you away from unconditional acceptance. There is a reason they say you have to "love yourself before you can love any one else." If you cannot unconditionally accept what your mind and your body does, and its idiosyncrasies, odds are you will not have unconditional acceptance for those that you have less attachment to, as the outer world tends to mirror to us the state of our own mind.

Does that make sense? The concept is easy to have in your head, but I do notice upon writing it that the very words one must use are problematic.

Originally posted by Sonya610

Originally posted by Wertdagfso starving people shouldnt be givin food? Would me feeding them be outside of gods plan?

What is this change you think i should seek?

Okay nevermind then. I thought you were being sincere and non-combative (actually I thought you might be drunk or something, and that was making you real for a moment).

Forget I said anything.

Im trying to help you understand. At what level does your compassion stop? At what point do you say this is somthing i will not solve because they deserve to suffer?

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
I would have in times past. But I would not think that now. There is no constant state of mind that "they" remain in, because state of "mind" and state of "you" are not equivalent.

Yeah what you said makes perfect sense. I always just thought the "enlightened masters" stayed in that state. I have read about people that spent their entire lives in that state, so I just assumed they masters had taken it up a notch and as such they were always the observer.

Sort of like I used to believe the business execs knew what they were doing, and had a "brilliant master plan" when they came out with yet another whacky "company direction". As a young person I thought there must be way way more than meets the eye!

Hey...my last illusion was just blown. : )

Originally posted by Tayesin
For me, it is the ability to open up at will to the light of our higher awareness as Soul. To then be that being here in the physical 3D is the task we all face as we step-up into humanity's next phase of evolution.

My experience was of being prepared with "Guides" (higher-self as primary guide and others as Helpers) over many months, which involved regaining memories of other lives lived in order to know the paths the soul I am has taken to reach NOW.

This was followed by weeks of intensive training with the energy centres called Chakra, cleasing them and healing old issues, etc, before raising the Kundalini from the Base Chakra to the Crown Chakra... which ripped "me" apart so that "I" no longer existed as separate from the Universe. The experience was of being the universe, and knowing all things before I could form a question about any of it.

Thank you for your post . Alot of what you have written I can see within myself. The willingness to open up to the light, being prepared over many months, and especially the opening of the chakras and releasing the kundalini. Yes this also ripped me apart, it nearly destroyed me, I am only just coming through this now. To release such power and energy without understanding it is very difficult to handle. Im sure I released it too early, I was not ready for it, I cant have been or I would have handelled it better.

reply to post by Novise


(I really think it has more to do with conquering the ego than becoming a know it all.)

I agree completely but I would thing that you should know yourself & who you are before you can take any further steps towards enlightenment.

Its not about being a know it all. One seeks enlightenment for some degree of inner peace or maybe you need inner peace before you can take
that first step towards enlightenment. I am not sure but I am enjoying every ones take on this subject!!!!!

Originally posted by WertdagfIm trying to help you understand. At what level does your compassion stop? At what point do you say this is somthing i will not solve because they deserve to suffer?

Did I EVER claim to be compassionate? I thought you were being sincere, and sharing your own issues for a moment, that made me interact, and it made me compassionate towards what you said and how I imagined your situation for a brief moment (plus I like radical personalities). But you are not trying to have a sincere dialogue, so I have no reason to interact.

Solving problems, and the suffering of others is NOT my responsibility to fix. You save the world. I will be neutral.

[edit on 13-1-2009 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by Novise

So the ego is transformed into something else. It's still the ego, but it's not the ego as it was.

I would say no, you just realize that an ego is something you possess, and ego isnt something you are. You HAVE and ego, you are NOT an ego.

An example; You are struck on the head and develop complete and total amnesia. Your entire identity, everything you thought you were is suddenly not there. What remains? Have "you" died? Or are "you" the consciousness that exists regardless of the mental construct of the ego or identity?

If you think about it, virtually every cell in your body is different from those that "you" were born with. Even your identity has changed over time, your thinking is different, your likes and dislikes, the clothes you wear, your hair. "You" are a flow. A stream. However mind likes to take things as if they were constants and say "I am this." Period. Your identity if lost to amnesia is no more of a loss to "you" than the baby cells you were born with are a loss to you. Because "you" are not "that." You, (your mind) thinks you are "that" but it is wrong. If your lose your entire current ego and all your memories, your mind will simply and uncomplainingly begin constructing another identity and will attach itself just as firmly to the new one as it was attached to the old one.

Mind seeks attachment. "You," do not. If you think you are your mind, you will suffer greatly at the thought of loss or change. If you "know" you are not your mind but rather the watcher of it, change comes and goes and "you" remain unaffected. Even if your ego is throwing a tantrum, you watch the tantrum just as serenely as you would watch a sunset.

Originally posted by Sgoat74
reply to post by Novise

 

Its not about being a know it all. One seeks enlightenment for some degree of inner peace or maybe you need inner peace before you can take
that first step towards enlightenment. I am not sure but I am enjoying every ones take on this subject!!!!!

Of this I am glad There is much energy within this thread, much energy which means it has touched a lot of hearts, awakened a lot of inner thoughts and feelings.

Originally posted by Sonya610

Yeah what you said makes perfect sense. I always just thought the "enlightened masters" stayed in that state. I have read about people that spent their entire lives in that state, so I just assumed they masters had taken it up a notch and as such they were always the observer.

There are those who claim perfect stillness of mind, however, my observation shows none. And, often those who claim it, will demonstrate to you they are not telling the truth if you look rather than listen. You also have to separate the actual "master" from the mythologies created by his/her followers. I think there are those who have reasons to want to make things sound much better than they are, although what REALLY is is cool enough, in my opinion. The truth is not good enough for some however, Plato said of this;

classics.mit.edu...

As for the rest, it would fill some of them quite illogically with a mistaken feeling of contempt, and others with lofty and vain-glorious expectations, as though they had learnt something high and mighty.

If the "spiritual message" is being sold by one ego to another, it gets embellished in ways that appeal to the ego. It will promise things only the ego wants, constancy, specialness, aggrandizement, etc. However when you look at the lives of the mystics and masters themselves you do not see them living this way.

Jesus for instance was not immune to fear and doubt, and dread. In the garden before he was taken to be tried he had quite a conversation with God asking him to take this fate from him if he could, but if that was not his will, he would do what he must.

To be in the world you have to operate through the mind and body. It is, as far as I can tell, impossible to completely rise above their restrictions. (Jesus died, the Buddha died.) But what you can do is continually move back to the place where "you" are the observer. It is a refuge. It takes consciousness of "I am not that" (mind and body) to move to that place.

I can be hungry on a car trip and be an utter jerk, throwing tantrums for food, and whining about how I feel, or, I can acknowledge that I am hungry but there is nothing I can do about it and direct my consciousness to other things until I can do something about it.

It doesnt mean I (my body) isnt hungry, it just means that I am not going to identify so closely with my body and hunger that I become "hunger."

Sort of like I used to believe the business execs knew what they were doing, and had a "brilliant master plan" when they came out with yet another whacky "company direction". As a young person I thought there must be way way more than meets the eye!

Hey...my last illusion was just blown.

Lol, yeah, I know that one.

[edit on 13-1-2009 by Illusionsaregrander]

reply to post by Sonya610


I pity everyone around you then. I pity your parents... your children... your friends, because they will grow with no help and advice.

You collect this knowledge only for yourself.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
I pity everyone around you then. I pity your parents... your children... your friends, because they will grow with no help and advice.

You collect this knowledge only for yourself.

You are quite intelligent. You are just so angry. Assuming for one moment you are NOT being sarcastic and baiting (and honestly I think its half and half)...have you ever ridden a 2 wheel bike? If so, please write down, please explain in detail, how to ride one so that others can read how its done without having to go through the awkward training wheels/falling stuff.

Once you have ridden a 2 wheel bike, even if it has been many years since the last ride, you know you can do it. But explaining it? Impossible.

Originally posted by Sonya610

Originally posted by Wertdagf
I pity everyone around you then. I pity your parents... your children... your friends, because they will grow with no help and advice.

You collect this knowledge only for yourself.

You are quite intelligent. You are just so angry. Assuming for one moment you are NOT being sarcastic and baiting (and honestly I think its half and half)...have you ever ridden a 2 wheel bike? If so, please write down, please explain in detail, how to ride one so that others can read how its done without having to go through the awkward training wheels/falling stuff.

Once you have ridden a 2 wheel bike, even if it has been many years since the last ride, you know you can do it. But explaining it? Impossible.

The bike ride becomes eaiser if you know the fundemental forces of the wheels that will keep you upright. That alone can remove a large amount of fear. If i would have known back then what i know now about those forces.... it would have changed much about the experiance.

It is explainable... turning is all that must be experianced. Hell even a tiny bike model that could have been given to me with proper explination would remove all unknowns.

Even in showing somone how to ride a bike you cannot be (neutral) that would lead to a very very bad experiance for the person you introduced to bike riding.