Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by Mr Green

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For me "Enlightenment" is having the knowing of a great many things that most do not know. It means knowing how to do things such as astral travel, telepathy with other like minds, developed research skills that allow one to learn things faster than most. It means a developed brain that processes more information that most others do. It means being totally free from any dogma. There is more, this is but a few things.

Originally posted by Sonya610
reply to post by autowrench

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They say if one sees the lifting of the veil for even a second, it changes them for a lifetime. I do believe this is very true. You can get warm and fuzzy feelings various ways, but when a striking moment of clarity really hits it is NOT subtle. It is utterly awe inspiring and life changing.

It changes how you see the world, and it changes how you judge experiences. The true moment of clarity is realizing everything is perfect just as it is, it is a feeling of utter bliss, and understanding, but it goes beyond feeling, it is like experiencing a whole new reality.

If you are not sure if it happened, it didn't. It will knock your socks off when it does.

Is astral travel really enligtenment though? To be able to seek out other dimensions, is this really enligtenment or just a skill learnt by opening your psychic awarness? I think psychic awarness is different from enligtenment, yes the two are closely linked but many who astral travel are not fully enligtened.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by Mr Green

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I stand corrected. I learned to astral travel after leaving all church teachings behind me for good, and reading a lot of old books. Enlightenment did not come until years later. I do think enlightenment is directly connected to knowledge though, for knowledge brings power over those who do not know.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by Mr Green

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I agree with you on this. I have known many religious people, some are enlightened, and some are just mind controlled. for instance, in simple terms: A person who thinks everything in the Bible is true is mind controlled, and a person who reads and looks beyond the Bible is enlightened.

Before we discuss this, let me tell you a story. Somebody once asked,
"What is enlightenment like? What is awakening like?" It's like the tramp
in London who was settling in for the night. He'd hardly been able to get
a crust of bread to eat. Then he reaches this embankment on the river
Thames. There was a slight drizzle, so he huddled in his old tattered
cloak. He was about to go to sleep when suddenly a chauffeur-driven
Rolls-Royce pulls up. Out of the car steps a beautiful young lady who says
to him, "My poor man, are you planning on spending the night here on this
embankment?" And the tramp says, "Yes." She says, "I won't have it. You're
coming to my house and you're going to spend a comfortable night and you're
going to get a good dinner." She insists on his getting into the car.
Well, they ride out of London and get to a place where she has a sprawling
mansion with large grounds. They are ushered in by the butler, to whom she
says, "James, please make sure he's put in the servants' quarters and
treated well." Which is what James does. The young lady had undressed and
was about to go to bed when she suddenly remembers her guest for the night.
So she slips something on and pads along the corridor to the servants'
quarters. She sees a little chink of light from the room where the tramp
was put up. She taps lightly at the door, opens it, and finds the man
awake. She says, "What's the trouble, my good man, didn't you get a good
meal?" He said, "Never had a better meal in my life, lady." "Are you warm
enough?" He says, "Yes, lovely warm bed." Then she says, "Maybe you need
a little company. Why don't you move over a bit." And she comes closer to
him and he moves over and falls right into the Thames.

Ha! You didn't expect that one! Enlightenment! Enlightenment! Wake up.
When you're ready to exchange your illusions for reality, when you're ready
to exchange your dreams for facts, that's the way you find it all. That's
where life finally becomes meaningful. Life becomes beautiful.

There's a story about Ramirez. He is old and living up there in his castle
on a hill. He looks out the window (he's in bed and paralyzed) and he sees
his enemy. Old as he is, leaning on a cane, his enemy is climbing up the
hill -- slowly, painfully. It takes him about two and a half hours to get
up the hill. There's nothing Ramirez can do because the servants have the
day off. So his enemy opens the door, comes straight to the bedroom, puts
his hand inside his cloak, and pulls out a gun. He says, "At last,
Ramirez, we're going to settle scores!" Ramirez tries his level best to
talk him out of it. He says, "Come on, Borgia, you can't do that. You
know I'm no longer the man who ill-treated you as that youngster years ago,
and you're no longer that youngster. Come off it!" "Oh no," says his
enemy, ''your sweet words aren't going to deter me from this divine mission
of mine. It's revenge I want and there's nothing you can do about it."
And Ramirez says, "But there is!" "What?" asks his enemy. "I can wake
up," says Ramirez. And he did; he woke up! That's what enlightenment is
like. When someone tells you, "There is nothing you can do about it," you
say, "There is, I can wake up!" All of a sudden, life is no longer the
nightmare that it has seemed. Wake up!

Somebody came up to me with a question. What do you think the question
was? He asked me, "Are you enlightened?" What do you think my answer was?
What does it matter!

You want a better answer? My answer would be: "How would I know? How
would you know? What does it matter?" You know something? If you want
anything too badly, you're in big trouble. You know something else? If I
were enlightened and you listened to me because I was enlightened, then
you're in big trouble. Are you ready to be brainwashed by someone who's
enlightened? You can be brainwashed by anybody, you know. What does it
matter whether someone's enlightened or not? But see, we want to lean on
someone, don't we? We want to lean on anybody we think has arrived. We
love to hear that people have arrived. It gives us hope, doesn't it? What
do you want to hope for? Isn't that another form of desire?

You want to hope for something better than what you have right now, don't
you? Otherwise you wouldn't be hoping. But then, you forget that you have
it all right now anyway, and you don't know it. Why not concentrate on the
now instead of hoping for better times in the future? Why not understand
the now instead of forgetting it and hoping for the future? Isn't the
future just another trap? Source