Ponderings/questions about Life after death

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
I am reminded of what ImaMarty said about how we are here for the purpose of experiencing everything. Well does that mean experincing everything includes non exsistence? Can we experience non exsistence only for a limited time? or is it that once we experience non exsistence we are stuck not exsisting for eternity?

I agree with IamMarty on this because I think we are here to have the human experience. Even if it means sitting on your couch eating chips and gaming out 24/7. Im sure if we do experience non existence for a limited time well.. we wont rememeber it.. will we? Kinda like having a dream and not remembering it. Or maybe there is a completely new life in between lives that we are incapable of remember while we take form of something organic? I dunno, just throwin out speculations...

I don't know if some read the, why we can't imagine death thread but there were some psychological reasons as to why we it seems the majority feel that eternity exist, and that life is continuous. Its a trip to hear some of the explanations, for me anyway. I just don't see why some people wouldn't want to belief in an afterlife.

Not unless the belief is affecting your state of mind into some absurd actions in this life, there is no reason to not accept life after death. Even if it sounds irrational at times, wouldn't you still prefer it to be true? That is the question I ask a lot of people, I don't know why some people's imagination disagrees with what they think they know, that's why it is an imagination.

I think if more people had this imaginative wishful thinking of a "positive" afterlife that transcends all previous understandings of existence, we would learn to either appreciate this one more, or worse, we would be careless of it

Originally posted by scorps
sure if we do experience non existence for a limited time well.. we wont rememeber it.. will we?

That is an interesting point. I havent thought of that. If we did experience non exsistence, how could we remember it? It seems to me that to be non exsistent is to be without conciousness. well, if we are not concious could we remember?

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
That is an interesting point. I havent thought of that. If we did experience non exsistence, how could we remember it? It seems to me that to be non exsistent is to be without conciousness. well, if we are not concious could we remember?

Im sure If we werent concious it would be like we were sleeping or in a coma. If we were concious it would probably feel like we were cast into the void. Which then ya, I would probably be damaged for more life times to come.

reply to post by gimme_some_truth

Well if it is a consciousness that makes all physical reality, then our cerebral cortex is created by that as well, I don't see why memory would not follow us.

I've been watching quite a few videos on the internet about reincarnation. I've watched as many reliable (IMO) videos as possible on Google and Youtube and almost all come to the conclusion that reincarnation is the most probable explanation for the extremely lucid memories of people taken into hypnosis.
I know one episode of Proof Positive (hasn't aired since 2005 I think), that deals with 3 things: A Michigan lighthouse ghost, Roswell Rods, and a Policeman's Past Life. The ghost and rods were deemed 'proof negative', while the reincarnation story of the policeman from Indiana was classified as 'proof positive'.

I find reincarnation nowhere near impossible and is just something we cannot explain yet and is not seen as a plausible theory [yet] by the majority of the population, just like other radical ideas posed by Galileo, Democritus, Da Vinci, and others.

As I am a full blown Christian. My belief are based on the bible. I do believe in life after death.

But as for reincarnation. Let think about it. Has anyone every thought how does reincarnation work.

Lets think about it. Person dies and is reborn as a new being or animal.

heres the thinking part. Person dies and soul goes becomes new being or animal. So when does this happen? Does the soul enter a pregnant women and take over the new born baby who already had the body and had a souL??? Obviously no. So then the soul enter the women while she having sex when she becomes pregnant????? Sound strange??? Because reincarnation is wrong.

God bless.

reply to post by BlackOps719

The truth is, I really dont know

My dad was clinically dead on an operating table back in 1978 after suffering from heart failure. He was gone from this world for almost four full minutes. He drew pictures when he awoke of awful places that he had seen, as well as angelic faces and a choir of robed angels who sang as he was flown over a lake of fire. He continued to live his life as he always had, but he never changed his story once about what he saw.

Perhaps people see what they expect to see when they pass due to a reaction of chemicals in the brain, perhaps they see the true face of what is to come and truly bare witness to God or whatever is out there waiting for us.

The only thing that is certain, we all have our tickets punched and we will all take that ride soon enough. Best enjoy your time here while you have it

Here's a paradox: if there is continued conscious existence after death nothing could have more far-reaching implications for how we live now. It is quite extraordinary that this topic can sometimes be shelved as just 'another topic of interest' IMHO. Most other questions and even activities pale into insignificance if death is certain, and may lay its hand on us at any moment.

I've walked into work, sat down at my desk and then heard the voice of a colleague (who'd entered the room undetected) say "K____'s dead". K____, being an inexpressibly dear friend and colleague, had taken me to many foreign destinations and passed on to me something of the fruit of his decades of labours. Like a brother, despite the generational difference.

Gone.

Flip forward several years.

Someone so dear to me no earthly words could express. I'll say no more for fear of breaking down. Dying in my arms. Dead in my arms.

Gone.

Me, breathing my last.

Gone.

(Postponed several times.)

What could be more noble than to seek the answer to the ultimate question?

Why, o why do so many get offended when someone says they are convinced they know the answer? I suppose they suspect an arrogance or perhaps that the one speaking must be a bit simple, needing a lower standard of proof than someone with real intellectual integrity...

There never will be proof unless people flock to volunteer for research whereby they're deliberately killed and then, by the miracles of modern resuscitation techniques, brought back to the living - hopefully . And even should evidence of conscious existence emerge in trial after trial, skeptics will ever cry: 'Memories, that's all it is!'

BlackOps, your Dad's testimony has been repeated times without number. NDEs are not even regarded as unusual any more. Ask any doctor who's worked in an emergency room or been involved in resuscitation. Mountains of evidence in the form of testimonies.

Personally, my conviction that there is continuation of life after death is based entirely on the resurrection of Christ. There is also the cumulative weight of the wisdom of the ancients, from every corner of the planet. Certainly not proof, but not to be ignored either. Then there are OBEs, which provide sometimes compelling evidence that the true self can be separated from the physical body.

The stumbling block for many is often "No proof, no take seriously." I'd like to turn it on its head: in the face of ever-increasing evidence, there are grounds for becoming ever more skeptical of the idea that conscious existence ceases at death.

This turned out to be a very informative exchange of views, ideas and approaches:

Near-death experiences are real, and we have the proof, say scientists

Ultimate proof? No. But what I found interesting is how people from a diffuse variety of backgrounds are now aware that the true self lives on on some other plane of existence.

If we seek the answer to this question in a philosophical approach alone one thing is certain: we will never find the answer. It cannot be ascertained by pure abstraction.

An evidence-based approach, however, provides real answers for some people. Answers that, far from simply encouraging general positivity, compel many to reassess what on earth they are doing with their allotted days on this planet.

The advert says: "The future's bright. The future's Orange."

I say: The future's eternal. The future's out of this world.

Originally posted by slymattb

But as for reincarnation. Let think about it. Has anyone every thought how does reincarnation work.

Yes, many have thought how it works, but since it's not a very well known phenomena or even less understood, it's very difficult to say how it works.

Originally posted by slymattb

heres the thinking part. Person dies and soul goes becomes new being or animal. So when does this happen? Does the soul enter a pregnant women and take over the new born baby who already had the body and had a souL??? Obviously no. So then the soul enter the women while she having sex when she becomes pregnant????? Sound strange??? Because reincarnation is wrong.

God bless.

Your announcement of being a full blown Christian doesn't make your claim "reincarnation is wrong" to be taken too seriously. Also, the soul who enters a baby in a womb would not enter a body with a soul already there because a soul has to come to occupy a physical body/vessel.


Your last statement, "Because reincarnation is wrong" is arguable, but is a very audacious statement. Since your a devout Christian, you have noticeable bias, so please don't make bold statement on things that you don't understand (even I don't understand reincarnation completely, but I dont' dismiss it).

[edit on 18-11-2008 by Monsterenergy791]

Originally posted by slymattb
Person dies and soul goes becomes new being or animal. So when does this happen? Does the soul enter a pregnant women and take over the new born baby who already had the body and had a souL??? Obviously no. So then the soul enter the women while she having sex when she becomes pregnant????? Sound strange??? Because reincarnation is wrong.
God bless.

I dont think any of us know that answer for certian, but just because it doesnt sound right doesnt make it wrong or right for that matter. In my opinion I can't fathom going to Heaven and layin low the eternity.

www.amarasara.info...">www.amarasara.info...

This a good story about real life reincarnation, If you look for the answers they are everywhere. I had a past life hypnotist done and it was mind boggoling, alot of it explains why we are the way we are today.

There are sub-religions of christianity that actually believe in reincarnation.

Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by BlackOps719

 

The truth is, I really dont know

Then there are OBEs, which provide sometimes compelling evidence that the true self can be separated from the physical body.

The stumbling block for many is often "No proof, no take seriously." I'd like to turn it on its head: in the face of ever-increasing evidence, there are grounds for becoming ever more skeptical of the idea that conscious existence ceases at death.

This turned out to be a very informative exchange of views, ideas and approaches:


An evidence-based approach, however, provides real answers for some people. Answers that, far from simply encouraging general positivity, compel many to reassess what on earth they are doing with their allotted days on this planet.

I would not take OBE's as compelling evidence of conscious existence ceasing at death, OBE's can be created in gravitational experiments/G-Forces through with some of NASA's equipment. but you seem to have a empirical understanding.

"Death is no fearsome mystery.
He is well known to thee and me.
He hath no secrets he can keep
to trouble any good man's sleep.

Turn not thy face from Death away.
Care not he takes our breath away.
Fear him not, he's not thy master,
rushing at thee faster, faster.
Not thy master but servant to
the Maker of thee, what or Who
created Death, created thee
--and is the only mystery."



An exerpt from - The Book of Counted Sorrows

Originally posted by Monsterenergy791

Originally posted by slymattb

Also, the soul who enters a baby in a womb would not enter a body with a soul already there because a soul has to come to occupy a physical body/vessel.

I will go one step further than this and ask you to show me one single iota of solid proof that such a thing as the "soul" even exists....at all....on any level.

That is the point....you cannot....nor can I.

A soul does exist. Where do feeling come from????? My point is that reincarnation belief is not even a close to the truth. Its man made and a belief system that I cant belief millions follow. I dont think most of them really think about what happens when the person die and is reborn!

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


Well Gimme, here's a little of what I believe and how I arrived at it.

Growing up I was constantly harangued into being a Christian, both my parents are Christians. My Father used to be an alcoholic but about a decade ago he kicked the habit, essentially replacing it with religion in high doses, he's a hardcore Christian, the kind that will talk about Jesus anytime, anywhere.

Needless to say being essentially forced into being a Christian was tough, I spent a great deal of my life praying to God and trying to avoid every little sin I could, but it wasn't long into my teens when I began to doubt modern Christianity. I guess it started when Y2K, something I heard many Christians say was likely to be rapture/end of the world, then it didn't happen.

I can't tell you how many times I cried desperately for God and Jesus to cleanse my soul, give me purpose, and help me, but I never received a reply. Slowly a combination of doubt, logic, and a great deal of cognitive dissonance built up. I began to realize that modern Christianity was a bastardized religion, those in power, particularly the early Roman-Catholics, threw some Biblical books out, added in whatever they wanted and brought in a whole bunch of pagan practices. So I left Christianity behind in search of my own truth.

So here I am now, no longer a Christian. I believe in a God but not a narrow God who chooses to disseminate spiritual wisdom through only one religion, but a God of everything. I am unsure if this God is conscious or if he might merely be all the positive energy of the Universe but I am not content believing in science's purposeless, soulless, cold Universe. I cannot imagine what it would be like to simply NOT EXIST after death.

I have seen too much evidence of the paranormal, and have had plenty of a paranormal experiences myself, to believe that death is the end. I have also come to believe that some people are reincarnated after hearing about some cases, especially those involving children asking questions like "remember when I died before?" and the like. I'm not sure who gets reincarnated and why but my best guess is that those who attain spiritual enlightenment/fulfillment get to choose between whether they come back but those who haven't "learned their lesson" or have bad karma likely get reincarnated. To me both the idea of eternal life and non-existence are frightening and hard to imagine but death comes for us all, and its comforting, in a way, to know that we all face this mystery, whether you think you're prepared, or not...


[edit on 18-11-2008 by Titen-Sxull]

Originally posted by BlackOps719

Originally posted by Monsterenergy791

Originally posted by slymattb

Also, the soul who enters a baby in a womb would not enter a body with a soul already there because a soul has to come to occupy a physical body/vessel.

I will go one step further than this and ask you to show me one single iota of solid proof that such a thing as the "soul" even exists....at all....on any level.

That is the point....you cannot....nor can I.

This that is just a hypothetical situation, sorry I didn't state it.
Things such as souls cannot be proven in today's primitive age (it's all relative though), but I believe if it turns out a consciousness beyond our physical body exists, then we will have discovered ways of experimentation and studies beyond what we can almost imagine today, because of our limited understanding.

Just like Democritus, who proposed of the atom around 450 B.C., we didn't understand it's structure until the 19th century. Even now, we are still learning more about atoms and how they seem to defy our initial judgment. I don't think it will take more than 2,000 years to learn about the secrets on consciousness though, but if it does, that's a very long to debate the answers we seek.

[edit on 18-11-2008 by Monsterenergy791]

This conversation happened in ATS Chat??

I thought ATS chat was broken!!

I ned to figure out why I cant get in...

Originally posted by HankMcCoy
This conversation happened in ATS Chat??

I thought ATS chat was broken!!

I ned to figure out why I cant get in...

You arent the only one. For the most part no one can get in. Most people get that unknown error message. I was lucky enough to get in for whatever reason.

Infact alot of people got in. It seemed to be working just like it used to yesterday, of course today I cant get in again.

That said, I was thinking last night when I finally went to bed, more about this thread. I am proud to see that this thread is getting this kind of attention. I think its neat that all people no matter where they are from or what religion they follow or what they believe in general seem to ponder these questions at some point in there life.

Something else I ponder about sometimes is about life ( or whatever you want to call it) before birth is like. Do we get to choose the trials and tribulations of our life? Do we get to choose who our family will be? Do we have any say in it after all?

Originally posted by schrodingers dog

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
I was having an interesting discussion in chat. We were talking about essentially about what happens after death. Some great questions were brought up. Some of the people involved in the discussion felt there is no life after death. Others felt there is life after death. We also discussed religion as a whole.

There has always been a fundamental flaw in the question "is there life after death?"
This is because what people fail to understand, and this applies to both at a pragmatic and a spiritual level, that the words and indeed the concepts of "life" and "death" are totally unrelated.

Most things born of thoughts and mind made concepts have a relative opposite, hence duality and relativity. For example there is no real North, it is only a conceptual position understood because of its relativity to other conceptual positions such as south.

As such, the relative opposite to "death" is not "life", it is "birth".
So the discussion can only be accurate if the question is "Is there birth after death?"

Life is one of the few words in the world that actually has no opposite.

That in itself is a pointer, a doorway if you will, that life is permanent and unrelated to the birth and death of the body.

Stunning thought. So, are you saying there is "birth" after the body dies, or no there isn't?

reply to post by Alexander_Supertramp


Newton's law ... energy can not be created or destroyed... it is all all physical manifestation of the natural energy of the universe.. we are the collective consciencnees.