Originally posted by gimme_some_truth

Originally posted by Im a Marty
god is the only thing that exists, and nothing more... we are just part of its whole.

That is intruiging. So in a sense we are not seperate from god? We are one and the same. Does this mean that our "seperativeness" from god is just an illusion?

why would god need such an illusion to take place? I cant help but think of experience. When one thinks back on their life, they tend to think of everything they experienced.

Is it possible that we are going through life because we need or want to experience all things that physical life have to offer? Is our "creation" by god his/her needing or wanting to experience life?

that raises the question, what does one gain from experiencing life? Is there something "on the other side" that one cant experience without be alive? Perhaps it is simply the experience of being alive that is wanted?

Thats how i've come to understand it, that the separation is just an illusion, and the only 'goal' of god itself is to experience itself, by extending and expanding itself, the further expanding, the more dense, and physical life becomes. Spirit then takes form and inhabits flesh, yet these spirits are just a fragment of god itself, again, just an illusion of separation. This is what I believe is the 'fall from grace', the end result, to return back to source/god/creation which happens upon physical death, then re-incarnating.

Its pure purpose, is to know itself.

These are things I've wondered about (like billions before us, I'm quite sure) for as long as I can remember.

I've tried to entertain every hypothesis and belief anyone has ever shared with me. The least pleasant for me to entertain - but entertain it I have - is that our consciousness itself is nothing more than complex interaction between different physical segments of our brain; that our mind is simply the illusion of consciousness created by having competing parts of a physical organ in constant communication with one another.

I saw a documentary a while back about AI, in which they managed to create a mechanical analogue of what we might call a "stream of consciousness" by combining two computers based on neural net design. One was designed so that it solely stored completely accurate data about every piece of sensory input or stimulus it was given, while the other was allowed to become perturbed and more abstract by letting some of its nodes "die" or become degraded. When combined, the second "perturbed" computer was directed by the executive "driver" brain (which had only correct data) and set about generating abstraction and innovation as the result of the "tug of war" between the two. As a result it was able to learn what sorts of musical combinations were considered pleasing to the human ear (in general; there's no accounting for taste, even for a machine lol) and then go about generating its own, totally original music which was actually melodic.

This, of course, isn't a true example of human-like intelligence or creativity, but it could be a very primitive analogue of how our own minds work. From our perspective, we possess consciousness and thought, but it's at least conceivable that we are merely an extremely complex, novel example of this sort of a system, and that our "mind" is an illusion created by the interplay between cooperative but divergent parts of a purely biological organ.

I have tried in earnest to entertain that possibility, and the possibility that, as such, at physical death the data stops flowing and our mind ceases to exist. I've also tried to entertain the possibility that the only conservation of energy that occurs at death is that of our body heat being radiated, and our physical matter being consumed by microbes, insects, and the rest of nature once we're buried. In fact, I do still entertain those possibilities because frankly, until I die, I have no way of knowing. Literally anything is possible. Here is the logical and spiritual wall I keep running into, though.

Let's assume that all of this - our lives, this planet, and this entire universe - are the random, emergent result of entirely natural, and purely physical phenomena interacting in an extremely complex manner. No meaning, no point, and no explanation. It all simply happened, and that's that, so here we are.

Well, I recently read that physicists are now speculating that at the essential base of all matter and energy, in something that I can't even begin to comprehend which they call "quantum foam," are not simply particles with mass or charge, but instead sheer, literal, information. This could easily be my lack of comprehension talking, but that sounds a lot to me like a thought I used to have a lot as a teenager, which was as follows:

"If you imagine a complete and total void - absolute nothingness; no matter, no energy, nothing - then anything you place into that void, even a thought with no form, or pure information, would be the only thing existing, and thus, would become real." I know that sounds pretty metaphysical, but it doesn't seem to me, as a totally uninformed layperson, to be truly at odds with what I read about quantum foam (whatever that is.)

If that's the case, and if it's also the case that all of this - including our existence - is nothing but the result of random interaction between totally natural (if nothingness and information based nonetheless) phenomena, then it implies that everything in the universe is emergent, including our intelligence.

So, the universe - which at its essence is merely complex interaction between complex constructs of pure information - developed emergent intelligence (i.e. us) to an extent that said intelligence seeks to comprehend said universe which is comprised of said information...



...that sure sounds like a paradox to me, and it is what makes me feel, and hypothesize, that there is more to the universe - and to us - than matter and energy, and that there is some form of consciousness after physical death. That isn't my belief per say, but it is my current hypothesis, since I truly have no way of knowing for certain until my death comes.


[edit on 11/18/2008 by AceWombat04]

One of the most interesting things I have read on the subject of life after death is when a remote viewer actually wrote about their experiences of witnessing death.

Apparently the remote viewer was witnessing and cardiac arrest victim in a hospital and while they were watching the scene they were suddenly transported into a strange environment a kind of ether anyway the man who had died didn't realise he was dead, all around the remote viewer, the strange ether environment suddenly morphed in to an office just like a normal office of work on Earth. (the remote veiwer was able to connect to the dead mans conscious)

The remote viewer described it as though the mans thoughts were projecting this kind of environment and that the higher astrals were keeping him at a certain level (half way between life and death as a human) as apparently there are various stages in which a person that has experienced death must go through in order to intergrate back to the source.

After a while the office environment transformed back to the ether and a tremendous white light engulfed the area and there standing in front of him were members of his family and other tall beings of pure light. The strange thing about all this is that the angels, energies whatever you want to call them acknowledged the remote viewer before they ended the session. Bringing him back to full consciousness.

This has always rang some truth with me, I don't believe in angels like they are portrayed instead I call them spiritual beings of light and guidance, that are able to be connected to on a daily basis through meditation and stillness.

Anyone that is interested in LIFE AFTER DEATH should ask nurses because they see wierd occurrences everyday. Its normal to them, which is the reason why they are nurses of course. Compassion is the key.

Star and Flag

Posted this on a different thread a few days ago but it seems to fit with this question too...

I believe that the following is not an original idea, but it is one that I recently came to, quite independently...

We are playing a Game

The 'I that is me' (a higher level version of myself with access to all previous knowledge, experience and memories) has decided to accept restrictions to just a fraction of all the frequencies available (i.e. this physical state) and limit access to previous, higher memories / experiences to take part in this game of life.

Imagine that the game itself is a future version of Second Life or SIMS or World of Warcraft etc., that uses Holographic Projection, 3D imaging, Virtual Reality and Neurological control to provide total immersion in the experience.

So, we create a character choosing various physical characteristics, perhaps a story line to follow and then take the plunge! Exit from the game is through death where we can then discuss with colleagues how we performed, our scores, what we should have done better etc.

I have this depressing notion that those who believe we live to learn lessons to progress spiritually are actually addicted to the game and are using the excuse that "it's eductional!" to those not so captured.

It is interesting to note that if you extrapolate from current console and PC specifications you can easily see an exponential rise in the immersive nature of games, the power of processors and graphics cards and the desire to achieve a 'mind-controlled' system and according to latest sales figures the games industry is rapidly outgrowing both the Film and Music industries especially as the games offer so much more than just Film or Music ever can.

Films like 'the Matrix' and 'Total Recall' are on the right lines and there is an episode of Red Dwarf called 'Better than Life' that pretty much sums up my idea.

In a way, when this concept of taking part in such a huge multi player, role-playing game first occurred to me it was a depressing shock - It's all a bl@*dy game! and I still have not yet quite come to terms with this idea

Why not focus on living the life as we see it and feel it here and now. That is our purpose is it not? We have this awesome gift yet so many of us waste it wondering when and how it will end or what it is or how it works or what will happen when its over.............

My advice would be to stop worrying about all that crap and just live and be happy that you are alive. Enjoy it!

It is what it is... Period.

The truth is we will all find out what happens after death eventually. Until then, enjoy life.

There is no such thing as 'reincarnation'. Yes, there is a God. That God who did create us, we are part of the whole. I belive: Each person has his/her own timeline. And I honestly think that when God got upset about when Eve removed a apple from the 'Tree Of Life', humans become 'knowledgeable of awareness about one's-self'. As each 'apple' is a 'timeline of knowledge'. If somebody became more then psychic enough to be amade aware of the timelines, I think that they can affect his/her own timeline.

As per your original question, this is my feedback to your OP...

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
While, personally I don’t buy into or follow any one religion, I cant get my head around non existence. I truly feel that there is something to life after death. I don’t know what.

There's a reason for that. You have no idea except a nagging feeling deep inside that physical death is not the end. That is a small voice among the loud voices talking to you at a subconcious level. Sometimes we have to pay attention to the little voices, they are usually drowned out by louder noises that are designed to keep the nagging feelings, nagging feelings.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truthI don’t think that any
One question that was brought up involves reincarnation. Assuming reincarnation exists, are we required to reincarnate? Are we allowed to stay in the after life? Is it up to us? Or is it up to some one else?

Some of us will have to reincarnate and others will not. Others will get choices and others will rest. Some will vacation and some will go to prison and others will do a job or go to school. Some of this will be physcial and some of it won't. There is no one size fits all.

Short answer: Reincarnation happens.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
Also if you look at the population through out time it has increased quite a bit. Does that mean that more souls are being created?

They are but that is not related to our population increase. The Universe is a large place. Souls are ferried about and move about.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
Does it mean that the same souls are being some how cut in half and shared?

Whilst you are unique in one way, you are connected to a group which will be connected to a group which will be connected to a group and so on infinitely probably. There are higher selves and all sorts of malarky going on.

Does it mean there is no such thing as souls? What does it mean?

It means the cogs are turning.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
What about death in general. Is death an inevitability? Do we only die because we accept it as an inevitability? If one truly believes that you cannot die, what happens? Do you die? Do you not?

You only die physcially. I thought everyone knew that lol. Your body is a machine, built for a purpose. Time is an illusion, a rate of decay, the machine will expire. You will not.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
What of existence? If at any point in our lives, one truly believes that they don’t exist, do they cease to exist? or did they never exist in the first place? If you do exist, can you even cease to exist?

If you exist then you may not truly believe so it's an unanswerable question in the manner of it's construction. Best to stay away from those. It is possible to cease to exist though. Rare but possible. My rudimentary understanding is that others would do the ceasing to exist but it would be of your own doing. I don't think you can cease yourself, perhaps there's a form or something.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
I know there are a lot of deep questions here, but I have been really curious and pondering over them.

I was hoping to hear everyone’s beliefs about those questions and existence/life after death, as a whole.

I look forward to reading your replies.

Well, those are my perspectives. I hope you enjoy them, I like pondering this stuff too.

[edit on 18/11/08 by Prote]

I don't know what happens when we die, but I will say that I think that death happens for a reason. That it serves a purpose, just like birth, when we die I think we transform, move on, like a caterpillar turns into a butterfly. I think our energy "speeds up" or "slows down" what ever but we move on to a different dimensional time line possibly based on this planet, which would possibly explain the occasional paranormal experiences. I attribute them to "frequency interferences" Like when you are listening to a radio station and then have another station start to bleed through. But to a person on the other side "life" is as real as it is here. To them they think we are ghosts when they have "Bleed through".

Just my thoughts

I think of it like this...but its hard to explain.
The universe is like a giant body, and the planets are like organs and in those organs contain cells. I think of it as an organism in itself. The clockwork like a beating heart. The mechanisms like cellular death and rebirth and splitting. The hormones controlling the cells is how I see planetary energy. I don't see it as a soul is created, but that the energy of a soul is used again to keep the organism alive. At the sub atomic level there is no matter. All is connected. Matter tends to act like matter. I think we TEND to act like humans. I think we could have the possibility to TEND to be like anything we want within an organism. Or, that something could be choosing for us. I do believe that consciousness is retained. Even cells have some sort of motivation to do what they do. I think it goes the other way too. That the cells in our body are like a universe. and who knows how small it really goes. Who knows what life exists even in that sphere. There is a huge vastness of space even within the atom. I think there is an energy we are not aware of that holds it all together. Not gravity, but something counter to it. What separates water from air...What divides the matter to SEEM like matter. what makes the human seem like human matter, and not rock matter. Even the planets have a birth and death cycle.

am I weird?



[edit on 18-11-2008 by seagrass]

A number of you have already started to piece it all together.

The answers to the birth after death and life before incarnate life issues are found in the abundant and ever-increasing testimonies of near-death experiences, after death communications, and past-life regressions. NDE's occur to people of ever faith, philosophy, and value system, and, as pointed out in another post -- even to atheists. These glimpses of the Other Side all point to the personality surviving the body, no matter what anyone believes. Past-life regressions point to people actually choosing to incarnate, not being forced to do so by anyone. Most people choose to come into flesh for less than noble reasons and that is why the world is not a spiritual place (obviously).

However, we are only temporarily housed in flesh. Most of our cosmic history is in the Spirit, not in a body. So it is wise for all of us to pursue our own quest for greater spiritual illumination and to also strive to evolve in the process

As we will be on the Other Side, again, for a much longer period than we were here, and the achievement for finding and keeping long-term happiness in and of The Light is not to be obtained from just having fun in our bodies.

There is no life after death as we know it.

There is no time, there is no place - its just very much like dream, but we have more control over it and we are conscious about it.

If you want to find out what it is like already before you die you must change your state of consciousness. Amazon is full of stuff that will help you - rituals, drugs and people with "know how".

Random thoughts on the topic...

Physicists working on quantum mechanics and string theory are at the forefront of learning what consciousness is, the definition of "God", and the question of energy transformations. That's why I follow advances in string theory and multiverse science with excitement. Science and spirituality will someday merge.
Logic, mathematics and philosophy are exciting fields of study, as well.

I've studied Tibetan Buddhism over the years and I find great fascination in their beliefs. Tibetan Buddhists have devoted their lives to these questions of life and life after death for almost three thousand years. They have perfected a belief system that rings true to me intuitively, but having said that, I remain agnostic. Central to Buddhist beliefs is the simple concept of cause and effect, which is of course also central to physics.

When I die, I won't be surprised to find myself in the bardo world described by Tibetans. Equally for me, I won't be surprised if it is simply "lights out" and no further consciousness. So yeah, I'm just a humble agnostic.

I do believe, however, that the truth is something that is out of reach for us at this time until there are more discoveries in string theory and quantum mechanics. It's kind of like, we are looking at this topic like pre-Einstein scientists looked at the universe in an only Newtonian frame of reference. Then Einstein changed everything with his entirely new way of interpreting observations of physics and our universe. I think that when we do figure all this out in the future, the answer will be looking at things like we've never looked at them before.

For example, perhaps our physical bodies are receivers of something like a radio signal from a station located elsewhere (another dimension, maybe) and when our physical body dies, the signal does not die but it is just not apparent in the receiver anymore. Your soul may be an eternal "broadcast" from the station (God) and "heaven" may be some dimension where your signal is picked up by another receiver elsewhere.

Multiverse theory is really fascinating because it posits that there are unlimited parallel universes and unlimited "you"s and when you die in one, you are still very much alive in another parallel universe.

Its quite interesting..

In my point of view ..

I've considered that we are souls or a more rational term energy being.
and the body is nothing more then a shell. You can say .. we are .. a sort of a energy parasite. We need a body to live, ergo .. our mind is the energy.

its sounds probably stupid. but its makes sense to me.
and Like some of ye here, every life we live is a learning process to archive the higher enlightenment.

some of it has similarity from Buddhism.

So yes.. I do belive in reincarnation. you see.. "I think, therefor I am"

I apologize for any misspell and or something.