Ponderings/questions about Life after death

Alan Watts.

Taoism

We are god. This is heaven and it is hell. All in how you perceive it.

I believe the concept of life after death comes from the fact that because of our finite existence we cannot truly grasp what nothing is, it is such a contradictory subject that we can't quite make a right answer for what nothing is. Just read my sig. I also believe that there isn't anything after death that this is it and I accept that and am actually glad about that, helps me make the right decisions.

Ponderings/questions about Life after death

The title of the thread is 'Ponderings/questions about Life after death'. So what is 'life AFTER death?'. What is death? Is it when the body dies, or is it when the soul dies? There is enough facts related to 'a spirit world', so that when the 'life AFTER death' is when the body dies, and the soul has been 'lifted-exited' from the body and enters the spirit world. Also, depending on what the life of the person does have would take him/her to Heave/Hell.

Originally posted by Niobis

Isn't there only one answer to the question, "is there life after death"? No matter who we are, where we come from, or how we are brought up "death" will come to us all in the same way. Only through individuality is there a sense of more than one correct answer.

Where did you ever get the idea that there is only one answer to whether or not life after death exsists? If you ask a person of religion the answer is yes, if you ask an athiest the answer is no. If you ask an agnostic the answer is I dont know.

Again it's not about the answers or realizing the answers, it's about the questions. Ask the right questions.

Again,How does one know how to ask the right questions with out knowing the answer? It seems you would need to know the answer before hand to be able to know how to ask the question the right way. You are saying that you cant know the answer is 2 with out knowing the question, what is 1+1. but I submit you cant know to ask what 1+1 is with out knowing the number 2.

besides,who determines what the "right" questions are? Certainly you arent suggesting that you know the right answers and no one else does. How can you be so certain that YOUR answers are the correct ones? You cant.

The "answers" DO vary from person to person and each person figures out their own answers using their own life experiences, beliefs, fatih and environment.

Just because something works for you as an answer does not mean it works for everybody else as an answer. That is because they have bases their answers and what feels right in their heart on their own life and not yours.

[edit on 19-11-2008 by gimme_some_truth]

reply to post by Ghost147


was my post missed by the OP? thought it might of helped you through this.

[edit on 19/11/08 by Ghost147]

Originally posted by Ghost147
reply to post by Ghost147

 

was my post missed by the OP? thought it might of helped you through this.

[edit on 19/11/08 by Ghost147]

If you mean was it missed by me, no it wasnt. There are just so many good questions on this thread. questions that bring up more questions.

This is a fascinating thread isnt it?

I wonder, is there a deffinant answer to any of these question? Is there an end to just how many questions there are?

I hope not.

Here is a good question, is the pain that humans go through each day evidence of the absense of god? Is our suffering part of the "divine plan"? If so why?

Why would our creator want negative things to happen? Or is it that he/she/it doesnt want them to happen but we bring them on ourselves?

Is god able to stop them from happening but chooses not to, or is god incapable?

Why do bad things happen to good people?

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
Here is a good question, is the pain that humans go through each day evidence of the absence of god? Is our suffering part of the "divine plan"? If so why?

Why would our creator want negative things to happen? Or is it that he/she/it doesn’t want them to happen but we bring them on ourselves?

Is god able to stop them from happening but chooses not to, or is god incapable?

Why do bad things happen to good people?

The presence of evil has been a strong argument for a God not existing.

But that does not mean that we are not held accountable for our actions and that there is no justice for all involved. Near-death experience research indicates that we are all held accountable for our actions and even our intentions. No one ever truly gets away with anything. It only seems like many do on This Side.

That justice is not forced upon us by a God but by the energy of Spirit. The Light on the Other Side that many metaphysicians, theologians, mystics, NDE-ers, astral projectors, psychics, and mediums have referred to for time immemorial is not some vague spiritual allegory, but the actual energy of Spirit that is nonliving and infinite, and governed by Universal Law that cannot be changed one iota.

Next...

Scientists generally agree that the Universe is not endless or infinite, just extremely vast. This signifies that its Creator was not endless or infinite in power, just extremely vast in spiritual advancement.

A finite Universe was created by a finite God.

Next...

A common adage among many theologians is that “there is a piece of God in all of us.” There is more truth to this pronouncement than most realize.

Dr. Melvin Morse is a pediatrician who has done research into the near-death experiences of children. He was once approached by a beautiful woman who suggested that he try praying and he decided to give it a go.

He knelt down and prayed for an answer to the following question: What is man’s relationship to God?

The answer came back to him in a flash of insight – the word “fractal.”

A fractal is a piece of a greater whole that contains within it the blueprint or design of that greater whole. Like a hologram; if you break a piece off, that piece still contains the entire picture, albeit a smaller version.

Hence, souls are “fractals of light” of The Original Creator.

But in order for souls to be fractals, then that means that The First God no longer exists, which is precisely the case.

After The Big Bang was manifested, The First God or Creator purposely and irrevocably divided up the Godhead into trillions of basically spiritual souls or “fractals” and we are all that is left of that divine being.

That is the answer to the apparent lack of compassion from heaven. It is why bad things happen to good people. It is why evil is allowed to exist here. It is why there are so many religions.

All the traditional religions are powered and empowered not by a God but by semi-divine and self-serving spirits -- communities of angels -- who wish to keep us in darkness as to what really happened, for their own selfish purposes of control and influence.

BTS Thread: An Alternative Mystical View On God:

www.belowtopsecret.com...



[edit on 19-11-2008 by Paul_Richard]

Who else would know more about death than a person who has died and been revived?? Then you have the skeptics about that too. Was he truly dead or was his brain still sparking? I would say yes to a certain degree, death can be agonisingly prolonged. I have had my own brush with death and I know others who have too. Things can't be easily dismissed as you knew things that was happening around you while being revived.

Like a friend of mine as a child drowned and been unconscious at the bottom of a 10 foot pool. His uncle dove in to rescue him. His uncle prior to jumping in, had flicked off his wristwatch not knowing where it went. After my friend was revived he pointed out to his uncle where the watch flew into the bushes. How does science explain that?

I wish I did have proof, but I don't, I can only tell you of the experiences. Sadly in this day of age that isn't good enough. Ironically everyone will know the truth when that day comes. Death is inevitable for everyone. Something you cannot change or have control over. Let me tell you this, If you was to die tomorrow and your body was cremated. What part of the pile of dust is truly you? Absolutely nothing at all! It isn't your consciousness, it isn't your energy. That's what animates your body now and that is what continues to live on. This body is nothing but a shell. If you can understand that and accept that, then you have taken the first steps to knowing who you are in this plane of existance and beyond. There are two sides of a door my friends.

[edit on 19-11-2008 by sean]

well im sure of it as i have a stroke when i was only 23 yrs old and while the ambulance guys were trying to start my heart with electric pads i was looking into the eyes of my baby girl who was crying on the floor in the doorway to the room i was in with the ambos. i remember it as if it was yesterday but it was actually 26 years ago. and when they took me to hospital i was on life support and the doctors told my family that i was gone and that once they switched off the artificial respirators i would die as there was no brain activity. now im not religious in any way but my mother saw fit to let the hospital chaplain come into the ccu and give blessings. this was in the hosp 4 hrs after stroke that struck me down at my friend house. as you can imagine i was very young to have a stroke and much speculation about what could have happened to me. and the whole time this was happening to them i was watching and i was calm and felt like this was just another day at the office and it was all over and i was going home but i was hanging around to see how they would cope without me.as i said before i was staring into my daughters eyes as soon as i must of died at my friends house because she looked straight into my eyes (which i know was all that i was) and i told her that my sister would take care of her now. now this is a surprise to me as i didnt even like my sister to babysit let alone take care of my daughter.but somehow as they switched off the machines i continued to live. and the next two hours i watched as my family became tired of waiting and contemplated holding my nose.and i did not seem to mind but then all of a sudden i was in a coma 2 weeks later still alive and using different parts of my brain now. but there is nothing to fear about death i now fear life more. and yes i have become more intuitive since

Originally posted by slymattb
A soul does exist. Where do feeling come from????? My point is that reincarnation belief is not even a close to the truth. Its man made and a belief system that I cant belief millions follow.

Funny...that's how most people view Christians...

reply to post by TRAVELS


I'm afraid strictly speaking that's not the case. 33% of the world's population is Christian & 20% Muslim, meaning more than 50% accept Christ came from God. Source

On the other hand I'm not happy to see anyone's beliefs belittled. While I personally believe there is no truth in reincarnation I find it stimulating to explore people's different beliefs, sometimes focusing on the commonalities, sometimes exploring the differences. In this case those who believe in reincarnation and Christians can actually agree on something: our existence does not cease at physical death.

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


I'll say it again, only through individuality is there a sense of more than one correct answer.

You gave the example of a religious person, an atheist and an agnostic, but only two of the three are correct, which correlates to only one correct answer. Someone is wrong--either the religious person or the atheist. There cannot be life after death for only the religious persons and no life after death for the atheists. We are all made of the same materials. We are all human and we will all "die". The agnostic is also correct because "I don't know" is not giving a right or wrong answer.

but I submit you cant know to ask what 1+1 is with out knowing the number 2.

Exactly. But you see, you already know the answer. It was a matter of asking the right question.

who determines what the "right" questions are? Certainly you arent suggesting that you know the right answers and no one else does.

Of course not! I'm human and I'm ignorant just like the rest of my fellow humans.

You pose a good question. The best answer I would say is 'God'.

That is because they have bases their answers and what feels right in their heart on their own life and not yours.

That doesn't necessarily make them right and me wrong, or vice versa. Just because something feels right does not make it right.

Originally posted by Niobis

Originally posted by juveous
How does a body of people have a mutual answer to things like Life after death? I just can't agree that there is only one answer for certain things.

Isn't there only one answer to the question, "is there life after death"? No matter who we are, where we come from, or how we are brought up "death" will come to us all in the same way. Only through individuality is there a sense of more than one correct answer.
[edit on 18-11-2008 by Niobis]

Ok real quick, before we go in circles...No there is not only one asnwer. now, is their only one "right" answer, yes. - in individuality or subjectivity there is always the sense of more than one answer - which is what we are talking about anyway

I believe:

That when I get to the bottom I go back to the top of the slide, then I turn and I go for a ride, then I get to the bottom and I see you again.

Life is kind of a long and winding road, that leads to your door, you left me standing here....along long time ago-oh-oh-oh, Don't leave me standing here...lead me to your door.

Of course I can always count on...when I find myself in times of trouble, mother mary comes to me speaking words of wisdom...let it be.

I can't just let it be...oh
flame:

Help I need somebody, help not just anybody, help you know i need someone hellllp When I was younger so much younger then today, I never needed anybodies help in any way....this made me realize when I said to my friend, I said, hey bungaloo bill what did you kill bungaloo bill only later to find out he had a ticket to ride and he don't care.

Peace

Ok now serious answer.

Does life exist after death?

Qualifier Question: Do you remember not being alive?

O.k. What do you got?

add 1 afterlife per child you have parented biological or not.

Peace


[edit on 19-11-2008 by letthereaderunderstand]

reply to post by pause4thought


I applaud the spirit of you writing. Which is precisely what I try and do, find commonalities. And whether people choose to accept this or not, there are indeed many, an infinity really.

Faith, like any philosophy or personal belief should be about exploration. Not only that which we are comfortable with, but also that which we are not. Our "faith" will be stronger for it, or it will change.

I suppose I'd be categorized an atheist (I simply hate the term, it is meaningless and stands for nothing, but the reality or course is that I have found my own spirituality), yet I can agree with many tenants of just about every popular religion in some aspect or other. But division is far too easy and convenient for some. Just look at the mess the Greek and Jewish monks made of a ceremony not long ago, despite their being relatively similar in their positions and identical in their function.

An example:

I believe in organic reincarnation or nihilum.

Buddhists believe in Transmigration or nirvana.


While they are different concepts, in principle, we are saying the same thing. This is a crude example, but the "lighting of candles" is endless. Nirvana & Heaven, branching the argument into the realm of Christianity.

reply to post by Oscitate

Faith, like any philosophy or personal belief should be about exploration. Not only that which we are comfortable with, but also that which we are not. Our "faith" will be stronger for it, or it will change.

Very wise, Oscitate. One of the biggest enemies of mutual understanding is stereotyping. Buddhists/Atheists/Christians/New Agers are [insert your chosen prejudice here], they think like [_________] and they don't know anything about [_________].

Everyone's life is a journey. That includes our own perceptions of reality and personal beliefs. Long may reasoned discussion continue, and long may we listen to each other.

I noted with interest the videos Monsterenergy posted on page 5, incidentally. I'd've loved to have debated alternative explanations/conclusions with him and others, but I decided against raising these issues for fear of going off topic. I decided instead to just listen & learn in this instance.

Incidentally it's quite special how the question of life after death has drawn out so many personal stories in this thread. ATS at its best.

reply to post by Oscitate


Which candles are you lighting?

If we are in life, suitable to our senses and orientation to time and space enjoined in experience, why do we seek to determine things we don't know forsaking "what is" in search of "what is not"?

This is the question that fascinates me as I step back and realize, I am alive...then I find that truth is the only thing worth operating in and anything true is verified by my own senses and agreed upon by witness, no need for outside rule or outside hopes...No question any more...I realize...I am alive.

Why Guess at anything? "Walk in middle of road, get squished...just like grape"..."There is not try...only do or do not." Mister Miagi (just like Magi=wise men)...(wise movie kung-fu teacher and bonzi tree trimmer who taught Danial Son the all important crane kick in order to take out Johnny of the Cobra Kigh)

The heaven you're in is the heaven you spin....peace

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand


Sorry the whole candle analogy was slightly obscure. It refers to this:

The Buddha described reincarnation, or the taking on of a new body in the next life, in a different way than the traditional Indian understanding. He compared it to lighting successive candles using the flame of the preceding candle. Although each flame is causally connected to the one that came before it, is it not the same flame.

With regards to your point about why we fixate on the "what is not", I suppose its down to human nature. An instinct born of survival? I don't think I can answer that.

[edit on 19-11-2008 by Oscitate]

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


Great post, the thing that gets me so confused is if you keep on thinking, right, what made me, what made that, what made that, and if you keep going back you just reach a blackness.