I was having an interesting discussion in chat with DocGonzo and N.Tesla. We were talking essentially about what happens after death. Some great questions were brought up. We pondered over life after death. We also discussed religion as a whole.

While, personally I don’t buy into or follow any one religion, I cant get my head around non existence. I truly feel that there is something to life after death. I don’t know what. I don’t think that any one religion has it right, simply because the majority of religious texts are several thousand years old and were written by man in an attempt to understand the universe and the world around them.

That said, A few of the questions brought up in the discussion really have me thinking, and I was curious to hear everyone’s beliefs not only as far as these questions are concerned but also your Religious/spiritual beliefs as a whole.

One question that was brought up involves reincarnation. Assuming reincarnation exists, are we required to reincarnate? Are we allowed to stay in the after life? Is it up to us? Or is it up to some one else?

Also if you look at the population through out time it has increased quite a bit. Does that mean that more souls are being created? Does it mean that the same souls are being some how cut in half and shared? Does it mean there is no such thing as souls? What does it mean?

What about death in general. Is death an inevitability? Do we only die because we accept it as an inevitability? If one truly believes that you cannot die, what happens? Do you die? Do you not?

What of existence? If at any point in our lives, one truly believes that they don’t exist, do they cease to exist? or did they never exist in the first place? If you do exist, can you even cease to exist?

I know there are a lot of deep questions here, but I have been really curious and pondering over them.

I was hoping to hear everyone’s beliefs about those questions and existence/life after death, as a whole.

I look forward to reading your replies.

[edit on 18-11-2008 by gimme_some_truth]

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
I was having an interesting discussion in chat. We were talking about essentially about what happens after death. Some great questions were brought up. Some of the people involved in the discussion felt there is no life after death. Others felt there is life after death. We also discussed religion as a whole.

There has always been a fundamental flaw in the question "is there life after death?"
This is because what people fail to understand, and this applies to both at a pragmatic and a spiritual level, that the words and indeed the concepts of "life" and "death" are totally unrelated.

Most things born of thoughts and mind made concepts have a relative opposite, hence duality and relativity. For example there is no real North, it is only a conceptual position understood because of its relativity to other conceptual positions such as south.

As such, the relative opposite to "death" is not "life", it is "birth".
So the discussion can only be accurate if the question is "Is there birth after death?"

Life is one of the few words in the world that actually has no opposite.

That in itself is a pointer, a doorway if you will, that life is permanent and unrelated to the birth and death of the body.

do we get answers when we die? is it possible or will it just be useless at that point anyway? and who gives us these answers or is it just an "awakening"?

do we have to die? or is it the next step? do we get to keep our memories?

not much help but just some of my thoughts.

Most of what i can add comes from an "experiment" I did a while back.

Basically my Ego/Self was completely gone,and what I felt like was a strange void.Like I was nothing.One of the oddest memories of this was looking around my room wondering what all this stuff was.

I couldn't remember my name.Who or what I was,where I was,nor could I recall any sort of memories.

I looked at the TV and said,"What is this weird contraption?".

Ever since that experience I've felt strongly that there is some sort of Base Existence,and the ego is imprinted upon this blank slate from birth till death.

After that , I suppose , you either experience an afterlife as the blank slate,or are reincarnated and another ego/memory set is imprinted upon you.

I'm not saying this is fact or anything.Just what i believe from what I've experienced.

Doc

That was quite a hefty opening post there, but very thought-provoking. I'm just going to state my particular beliefs on these issues, but for the record I am currently searching quite intensely for some kind of answers to these questions myself. These were the basic questions which actually caused me to major in Philosophy, so great thread idea!

I believe that there is an after-life of some sorts. I have known three people, whom I consider extremely reliable, to have had outer body experiences while considered 'dead' for a brief time - two of them Atheists until that point. One of the Atheists had a pleasant experience (the typical light at the end of the tunnel, full of joy, etc.). The other, however, described it as "pure white hatred." He said he felt not pain, but a terrible sense of this hatred, which he used synonomously with evil, and he never wanted to experience anything like that for the rest of his life.

Also, I simply cannot imagine non-existance. I can pretend to, and even halfway convince myself I could, but I don't see how anyone can truly imagine not existing.

As far as any specific religion is concerned, I was raised a Christian under a Baptist Pastor as a Father (not Southern..he is actually the most open-minded Christian I've met to this date). However, over the past year or so I have deeply questioned many of my beliefs regarding some particular theologies (the problem of evil, prayer, God's omnipotence/omniscience, etc. etc.), the typical stuff in a quest for religious/spiritual truth I believe. So while I'm not sure exactly what religion, if any, I may end up following, I am in the process of attempting to find a truth within myself; one that I hope will just 'click' with me.

Reincarnation actually seemed quite plausible to me at one point in time. It would give some kind of an explanation as to why certain people, including young children, believe they are some other character from history. Other than that I just don't find it all that convincing, as compared to the idea of a consciousness which may continue to exist after our bodies decay.

I believe the soul, which I consider my mind, may indeed continue to some other dimension or realm of existence. This belief mostly came from my research into duality and how the mind might be separate from the brain. We all have some kind of idea of the Self, so it does make logical sense to say that there is such thing. I'm particularly on the fence on this issue, but still leaning more towards Mind/Sould concept rather than a mere brain and body.

I feel like I've only breached the surface of my belief on these particular topics, but I'll stop rambling. I, too, look forward to hear some hopefully insightful responses as these things are of great significance to me.

who created us? was it an accident? was it on purpose? how was that person created? why are we here? can we just stop existing? or are we energy and energy can not be destroyed.

Originally posted by N. Tesla
or are we energy and energy can not be destroyed.

That is something I have wondered myself. If we are made up of energy, and energy can not be created or destroyed, but can only change form, what does that mean for us? Is that evidence that there is something to life after death?

The energy composed within us will continue, but that doesn't necessarily mean that our Consciousness will. Without consciousness can we even call it existence of ourselves?

Originally posted by Alexander_Supertramp
The energy composed within us will continue, but that doesn't necessarily mean that our Consciousness will. Without consciousness can we even call it existence of ourselves?

well our consciousness is apart of our energy. i can only assume it will come with us.

Originally posted by Alexander_Supertramp
The energy composed within us will continue, but that doesn't necessarily mean that our Consciousness will. Without consciousness can we even call it existence of ourselves?

that is an interesting thought to entertain.

So lets say that our energy has left our body after we die and it doesnt have a concious. what happens to the energy? does it just"wander around" with out knowing where to go?

How does this energy know what to do next? Is this energy able to think,so to speak, and figure out a plan as to what to do next?

Perhaps when they say, energy can not be created or destroyed it can merely change form, that would be when it changes form?

Perhaps it changes form in order to create a new identity. A new consiousness if you will?

So I guess in a sense, reincarnate?



[edit on 18-11-2008 by gimme_some_truth]

i believe in re-incarnation, as well as going back to the source/god/creation upon death, then deciding where and what to do next..... A transformation of energy, which is the conscious itself

Originally posted by N. Tesla
well our consciousness is apart of our energy. i can only assume it will come with us.

If our consciousness was a part of 'our' energy then wouldn't it go to say that all other things with energy also have a conscience?

As for reincarnation...there would have to be some sort of intelligent creator in order for our energy to go from our bodies as we die into newborns. Otherwise we could end up being a red dwarf conscious energy-being?

Edit to add: I'm not disagreeing with you Im a Marty, just saying that in order for someone to believe reincarnation to be true, they would have to believe in an intelligent, willing God who directs our energy/consciousness from one body to another. Otherwise we'd end up floating about.

[edit on 18-11-2008 by Alexander_Supertramp]

Originally posted by Alexander_Supertramp

Originally posted by N. Tesla
well our consciousness is apart of our energy. i can only assume it will come with us.

If our consciousness was a part of 'our' energy then wouldn't it go to say that all other things with energy also have a conscience?

Hmm perhaps not a conscience but a consiousness. In other words, the awarness of its exsistence.

But then does that mean that seemingly inanimate objects have a consiousness, and therefore are in a sense living?

Originally posted by Alexander_Supertramp

Originally posted by N. Tesla
well our consciousness is apart of our energy. i can only assume it will come with us.

If our consciousness was a part of 'our' energy then wouldn't it go to say that all other things with energy also have a conscience?

As for reincarnation...there would have to be some sort of intelligent creator in order for our energy to go from our bodies as we die into newborns. Otherwise we could end up being a red dwarf conscious energy-being?

Edit to add: I'm not disagreeing with you Im a Marty, just saying that in order for someone to believe reincarnation to be true, they would have to believe in an intelligent, willing God who directs our energy/consciousness from one body to another. Otherwise we'd end up floating about.

[edit on 18-11-2008 by Alexander_Supertramp]

Quite true Alexander, I do believe that source/god/creation is of intelligence in nature that directs, however I also believe that it allows for all things to happen so that it could know itself, as in my belief and the work that I used to follow, god is the only thing that exists, and nothing more... we are just part of its whole.

I have been working up to the great answer of this question for 31 years now and I feel that I am no closer to a definitive answer than I was when I first started out.


There are serious doubts on my part about a great many philosophies on this topic. For instance my brother, who is well educated and science minded, happens to genuinely believe that we are all just organisms that will eventually pass on and fade into the dirt with no after life, no nothing. Just gone.

I have always been more of a spiritual type of person, and I have never been able to agree with the notion that we are all some accident, destined to die and rot in the ground with no real purpose for having been here or any hope of continuity. There MUST be something after all of this.

I try to keep my view point simple, and please keep in mind that this is only my own limited personal theory based on how I percieve things to be. I believe that no religion is correct, I believe that religion is simply mankind's puny, unimaginitive attempt at trying to explain the great beyond in terms that his miniscule monkey brain could rationalize.

The closest thing that I have ever seen that truly rang true for me was, of all things, a goofy Albert Brooks movie. It was entitled "Defending Your Life"...and it honestly made a great deal of sense for me. I believe that we are all here to learn, to grow as humans, to live and to seek out meaning. When we pass on we could very well be exposed to the true higher meaning and find that there is yet another plane of existence that we are to continue on to. A higher level of "enlightenment".

Now what that is or what it looks like or who may be running the show...I guess we will agree to agree that none of us have any true idea on that one. If we knew we wouldn't be sitting here trying to peice together some sort of meaning to this life. In the end there is only understanding and enlightenment, and this prison here on Earth is likely some form of "test" for lack of a better word. Perhaps we must achieve some form of inner peace in order to transcend to the next level of being.

The truth is, I really dont know

My dad was clinically dead on an operating table back in 1978 after suffering from heart failure. He was gone from this world for almost four full minutes. He drew pictures when he awoke of awful places that he had seen, as well as angelic faces and a choir of robed angels who sang as he was flown over a lake of fire. He continued to live his life as he always had, but he never changed his story once about what he saw.

Perhaps people see what they expect to see when they pass due to a reaction of chemicals in the brain, perhaps they see the true face of what is to come and truly bare witness to God or whatever is out there waiting for us.

The only thing that is certain, we all have our tickets punched and we will all take that ride soon enough. Best enjoy your time here while you have it

Originally posted by Im a Marty
god is the only thing that exists, and nothing more... we are just part of its whole.

That is intruiging. So in a sense we are not seperate from god? We are one and the same. Does this mean that our "seperativeness" from god is just an illusion?

why would god need such an illusion to take place? I cant help but think of experience. When one thinks back on their life, they tend to think of everything they experienced.

Is it possible that we are going through life because we need or want to experience all things that physical life have to offer? Is our "creation" by god his/her needing or wanting to experience life?

that raises the question, what does one gain from experiencing life? Is there something "on the other side" that one cant experience without be alive? Perhaps it is simply the experience of being alive that is wanted?

Originally posted by BlackOps719


My dad was clinically dead on an operating table back in 1978 after suffering from heart failure. He was gone from this world for almost four full minutes. He drew pictures when he awoke of awful places that he had seen, as well as angelic faces and a choir of robed angels who sang as he was flown over a lake of fire. He continued to live his life as he always had, but he never changed his story once about what he saw.

Perhaps people see what they expect to see when they pass due to a reaction of chemicals in the brain, perhaps they see the true face of what is to come and truly bare witness to God or whatever is out there waiting for us.

The only thing that is certain, we all have our tickets punched and we will all take that ride soon enough. Best enjoy your time here while you have it

First thanks for sharing that story.

I cant help but wonder, what does make us see what we see when we die? Is what we see or where we go determined by our behavior in life?

Is it just a release of chemicals causing an illusion or hallucination as you are dying?if it is an illusion or hallucination does it continue for ever or just untill the brain is completley dead?

Is what we see after death (regardless of it being real or illusion) determined by experience through life? In a sense do we design what our heaven or hell will be like based on our own imagination and ideas? If so how much influence does other peoples stories have on how your own heaven or hell looks like?

If what we see after death is somehow a permanent illusion and we are in hell is it possible to change that illusion and put ourselves in heaven?