I will stick to what I think I know for sure...

God/Nature/Creation does not waste anything. When a flower dies it is completely recycled down to the last atom.

If our bodies are completely recycled after death as are all things by nature, then it seems logical that nature would have a plan for our "souls" as well. Otherwise why waste energy having us evolve spiritually as we age? We grow wiser and nature does not waste anything..it all has a use and purpose...our bodies to the earth and then the fundemental essence of us is used somewhere else unseen.

I am not sure memories and logical thought survive...sometimes those erode during life as we age, but the essense of who we are....God/Nature/the creator wastes nothing and wouldn't bother having us ponder such non-utilitarian questions without a purpose ie internal growth independant of our bodies and that growth would not be wasted.

The body to the earth and "us" on to whatever is next.

[edit on 18-11-2008 by maybereal11]

[edit on 18-11-2008 by maybereal11]

Originally posted by maybereal11

If our bodies are completely recycled after death as are all things by nature, then it seems logical that nature would have a plan for our "souls" as well. Otherwise why waste energy having us evolve spiritually as we age? We grow wiser and nature does not waste anything..it all has a use and purpose...our bodies to the earth and then the fundemental essence of us is used somewhere else unseen.

That is a good thought. It makes me wonder, do we have plans predetermined by someone or something else? Or do we design our own plan? Is the plan that what ever happens,happens?

I am far from confident that I'll have any success in explaining what I currently believe, so I'll start by saying that so far in this thread the people who have come closest to expressing what I hope to express have been BlackOps, seagrass, and ImAMarty.

To begin with though, I'm going to agree with SchroDog that "is there life after death?" is not really the most productive way to ask the question.

I strongly believe that the personality does not continue after death, nor does consciousness in the way we know it. I think "life" can only exist in the unification of "being" and "body" – once the body is done, life is done.

Energy continues to exist at least in the mechanistic sense that the motion and interaction of particles or waves that comprise our body are not lost to the universe.

But consciousness is an emergent property of the unity of body and being. I'm not sure if being is just another way of saying energy, or another form of energy perhaps, nor do I think it's within my ability to fully understand it because I am also my body.

I think it is part of the experience of being human to be curious about and to experiment with how body+energy-->me but I think we sometimes get too fascinated by the separation aspect of it and don't spend enough time learning about the embodiment part of it.

Since I don't believe that consciousness continues after death, clearly I don't believe in reincarnation in the sense of one soul passing through serial bodies. I don't believe in the concept of one soul, really, because that feels too circumscribed to me.

It's a terrible analogy, but maybe it'll help get what I feel across: think of a lighbulb. Lightbulb+electricity-->light. It's not that the electricity is the light, because it requires the lightbulb to realize itself. And the lightbulb requires the electricity to realize itself. So the light can be thought of as the emergent property, but it is not spatially limited to the light bulb – it spreads infinitely in all directions, albeit at a constantly decreasing amplitude/density.

In the same way, body+being/spirit-->me (soul/mind)

That's what I'm playing with right now, anyway.

Originally posted by americandingbat
It's a terrible analogy, but maybe it'll help get what I feel across: think of a lighbulb. Lightbulb+electricity-->light. It's not that the electricity is the light, because it requires the lightbulb to realize itself. And the lightbulb requires the electricity to realize itself. So the light can be thought of as the emergent property, but it is not spatially limited to the light bulb – it spreads infinitely in all directions, albeit at a constantly decreasing amplitude/density.

and what if through abstract understanding of "light" that we find what it is composed of the same components as the lightbulb and the electricity? would they be separate? on top of that what if the "light" was actually necessary for the lightbulb to exist to be seen?

just thoughtful experimenting

I definatelly beleive in life after death. I beleive in god I call him father jesus I call my brother. The spirit of god is what annointed Jesus the man of flesh. Once we shed the flesh and we allow the spirit to shine forth we will truly find our place and find out what gos is about. I dont think were going to hell for the only place for darkness to dwell is inside ourselves. Now with that said it dont mean that we can keep darkness out of everybody we have to control our own individual selves. I think that a person who remains blind throughout life will keep coming back to a world somewhere till they get it right with god. Im no saint and have recently started my walk with god I dont go to church on sunday but I am building my fathers temple inside us that is where the kingdom of god lies. Unfortuantely our own perceptions of god is what hold us back which is also brought on by the pulpits. There is only one god no doubt about it I call him father you call him god some call him allah. The thing is all religions actually are praying to the same god the one's who have overcame perception and allowed god to lead the way have learnt this. Now dont get me wrong either Im not saying Im right and your wrong or vicea versa im saying we have to learn about god with a open heart and open mind in all aspects. I ve read the holy bilble KJV, Quran, Gnostic Gospels, and know stories that the native americans have passed down due to my father being native american. The all seeing eye on the back of the dollar bill is representive of god the pyramid is representive of gods kingdom inside us in essence he is watching us construct our lives. If you ever been called a conspiracy thearist well you have one of the best gifts godgave you and its your mind to question things. We have to understand the old testament before we can begin to understand the new. Jesus the man was annointed with the holy spirit this is where the trinity came in.

Now in gensis ch 3 verse 22-24 after adam had eathen of the apple it separated adam from god by dividing his soul and flesh befor this he was one with god and was allowing god to lead him in every aspect of his life. When he questioned gods judgement by eating the apple that is what makes us have to get back to being one with god we live inside god and god inside us through the holdy spirit. Now it also tells us that he placed at the east of the garden of eden cherubims and a flaming sword which turned every way to keep the way of the tree of life. Ok the flaming sword is the sun two cherubims is the axis (poles) now the tree of life is earth for right now so the sun holds the orbit of the tree of life. We have to read with open eyes and let god guide us once he takes hold. Now we have brothers and sisters out there on other planets in other galaxies I beleive in UFO's and the likes. I think that there will be a planet line up one day squaring the circle has to do with this line up ( I wont go in depth cause you will think im crazy), but the crop circles the legitamite ones are explaining this. Dont take my word for it go back and study it I will be glad to give my point of view I will create a user account. I will not cast a stumbling block for I think the churches do enough of that and I dont judge nobody so ask anything you like but please go back and read and form a opinion for yourself before flaming.

Take care brothers and sisters

I like that analogy, and I wonder if fear of losing "consciousness " is part of the reason people fear death so much, after the thought of pain. Fear that they would lose this identity, when it's possible that losing the consciousness is exactly what feels so good, to finally be back to the source. Going home so to speak. The small consciousness we experience could suddenly become bigger... or stop completely. That is the question, does it stop, and intuitively I say no.

The worlds of matter are temporary. That includes the regions that are associated with "Heaven" in the old social religions. The regions of matter are managed by the "Devil" via the mind and illusion. The devil wants the spirits to stay in his domain. The spirit will reincarnate following the strongest desire at the time of death. In between you may get, by mercy, sometime in a region that matches the ideology one ascribed to in their last birth IE a suitable heaven.. That is if they where of a human like form. Otherwise they are only acting on compulsions of the moment. For all incarnations including those in the Spiritual/Material division and the Material/Spiritual division, you have an allotted reservoir of life force for that incarnation. When it is exhausted you will reincarnate. They you sleep/relax you recharge. Eat a perfect diet and try going without sleep for a week and see how much energy you have. Yes, some people can draw from the reservoir at any time without sleeping more easily than most.

The soul is indivisible. There are souls in rocks, birds, fish, insects, everything. There are souls to oversee groups of souls like various life forms birds, insects, etc.. There are souls in inner worlds not incarnate. There are souls throughout the creations of matter that are cycling (incarnating). There are souls through out solar system including outer space. The only reason the regions of matter exist is to provide an arena for the soul to function diametrically opposite to how it will function in the purely spiritual worlds also known as home. This is how it exhausts it's imperfections (primal karma, original sins, blemishes). There are souls on the sun (it isn't hot) that will die and reincarnate. Everything in matter will die because the reservoir of life force for the incarnation is exhausted or we die prematurely because of various reasons. Premature death often results in the reservoir being exhausted slowly by the subtle bodies as a ghost.The individual spirit is moving towards a state of full consciousness capable of sustaining it in the regions of pure spirit. That's why it's here. That is it's destiny. Its fate. Its salvation or true liberation. That state will only arrive when the imperfections that brought it to the regions of matter and prevent it's full state of consciousness are exhausted and it is also detached from it's attachments to the material regions aquired over countless lifetimes.

Something else I thought about was OBE's ( out of body experiences). Assuming it is possible to "leave the body", and we are able to go freely where ever we want, does that mean we could go to "the other side" for a whiel? Could we go see visit our loved ones who have died? Can we go take a look at heaven or hell or go to another deminsion?

Hi There,

The 'OP' has provided some quite deep fundamental questions which I am sure we each ponder sometime during our lifetimes. As I find myself coming towards the twilight years of my expected lifespan (as a male), death (my own death) becomes something of a ever-present shadow in my thoughts, where once it was not something remotely sentient in my thinking. Aging has a way of concentrating one's thoughts upon one's own mortality, and I suppose, depending upon one's character, the manner in which we each deal with the thought of our own death, may or may not bring something of a liberating peace to our minds.

I have to say that throughout my life I have pendulated between bouts of surety and doubt regarding post-mortem consciousness continuance. Yet, even when in doubting mode, I can still sense in myself something unexpressible, ineffable and undefined, that does not allow me to fully reject and relinquish the thought that we somehow 'continue on' after the demise of the physical body. I hold to no particular religion, creed or dogma, but that a sentiency of 'myself' feels expressed as being something 'other' (or rather more) than simply an assemblage of atoms and molecules and cells drawn together by natural forces into the shape and form of the human body: it feels spiritual, but stripped of all the connotated baggage that accompanies the term spiritual when allied with the term religion.

I do not know if we continue or discontinue once the body is gone...nor can anyone...regardless of one's belief, state with all surety that we do or don't, There are those whom have experienced near-death experiences (NDE), who accept that their experience has brought them into a profound cognition of a post-mortem continuance, but even so, and even though there is no definitive medical explanation for NDE, it cannot be discounted that there isn't one. It simply comes down to one of two circumstances; when we die, we go into total annihilation...oblivion; or we enter into a post-mortem environment defined by who we were, and the life experiences we underwent.

The fact that we exist at all is a profound cognition in itself. The mystery of our existential condition, something more discerned through the knowledge of the sciences, places us within limited but understandable contexts, yet always falling short of a definitive answer. Whatever the outcome my own death brings to me, I would hope that prior to my last breath, I will be able to say to myself, my life, although being an unremarkable one, might have made a positive impact upon someone...somewhere?

Best wishes

Originally posted by elysiumfire
The fact that we exist at all is a profound cognition in itself. The mystery of our existential condition, something more discerned through the knowledge of the sciences, places us within limited but understandable contexts, yet always falling short of a definitive answer.

i like how you worded that. I think that is a HUGE deal about our understanding of things. No body still knows why we exist or how rare it is, if we are here by chance. "Life" is just as bizarre as an afterlife.