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My UK Friends, Freedom Not Fear

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posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 09:00 AM
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This illustration Represents the attitude of several of the most heavily disinformed contributors to this thread.

*National ID cards- Only terrorists and criminals don't want to carry one... Sad.





posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 09:16 AM
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reply to post by TruthTellist
 



Really? Im uninformed?

I LIVED in a country for 4 years where you had to carry an ID card, or did you miss that part of my post? So i would think im more "informed" than 99% of UK citizens - tell me, have you lived somewhere like that? If so, then share your experiences about how this was bad. I have no bad experiences myself. If not, i would shut up talking about people being uniformed when its only yourself and others like you that your reffering to.

And this thread is NOT about ID cards so please stay on topic. Its about people having to prove their address and ID when buying a PAYG phone and despite all the pretty pictures and cartoons, i have not seen ONE, not ONE decent answer as to why its a bad thing or why its a big deal. WTF this has to do with pictures from london tube stations i dont know??

Tell me truthtellist, did you have to provide address details when you got your electric switched on? or your gas? or sky? or Bt land line? or credit card? or bank account? or driving license? or contract phone? Of course you did, bet you didnt create much of a fuss then did you. This is a storm in a teacup whipped up into a frenzy by either paranoids or people who have something to hide.

Im neither of the above so i cant see what harm it will do. I have both a contract phone and a PAYG and if the government asked me to register it i probably would. Cue accusations of being a sheep, when in fact its people like you jumping on bandwagons that are the sheep

baah



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 09:30 AM
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Originally posted by Simplynoone
Here in the states when you buy a phone (even the pay as you go ones) you have to use a HOME phone just to call them ..you give name address etc to even get it activated...


That is not true. You can purchase virgin mobile phones from walmart and activate them online with completely bogus information. Thats how my last 3 cell phones were registered.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 09:30 AM
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A lot of posts here neatly demonstrate just how deep in crap the UK is at present.

If we as a people were more wise to the crap our so called leaders pulled, maybe we wouldn't have cops violating human rights, fake cops powertripping over what percieved power they have, politicians passing authoritarian laws and whitewashing corruption investigations, an arse-about-face justice system, etc.

Instead, it is easier for us to fight amongst ourselves, to call each other sheep, or subversive, etc etc. THAT is what they WANT.

You may not see the danger some of us do. That does not necessarily mean we are wrong. Those against the Iraq war were right, after all the hate and such that was thrown at us because we saw BS when it was laid out in front of us, for example.

I would urge those who doubt the seriousness of this situation to go and watch things like Taking Liberties, the documentary that Wag posted earlier in this thread. And while I am highly sceptical of the whole reptillian thing, David Icke on the Big Brother situation in the UK is definately worth watching, and has a lot to say that should make you take notice.

Remember, as long as we are fighting among ourselves, we are not watching them. Take the current immigration issue. The desire many immigrants have for a better life for them and their kids is human nature. But who is letting them willy-nilly into the country and not enforcing assimilation? The GOVERNMENT. It is the Government doing this, again, because while we are busy having a pop at some immigrants, we are not watching for fascist agendas, corporate corruption, etc.

Realise who the real enemies of the people are. Before it's too late.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 09:42 AM
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reply to post by Terran Blue
 



Fine post Terran Blue, even if we are at different standpoints


My repeated question is though, people cannot justify WHY this is a bad thing. All i hear is its bad because the Governement wants it. You stated that you realise the dangers and i obviously dont, all i am asking (and others with my point of view) is a reason why this is bad?

Why is it so bad the Goverment wants people to register their address when buying a PAYG phone
As i have already highlighted, you need to do it for everything else in life, including a phone on contract, so if you have nothing to hide what is the problem? And they can listen in whether you give an address or not so thats not an issue is it?



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 10:30 AM
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I have 3 moby's , i use them for differing reasons but never had a problem , If they listened in on one or monitored the text's they could report me to my partner for being a very naughty boy !!!

I have lived here in England for 41 yrs since birth and the only thing i have a problem with is the smoking ban in a pub ! I carry an ID card with me anyway its called my driving licence,it has my address and my photo on it, Any policeman wanting info from that can do so very quickly.. but i do not get into any situation that would warrant such an action.

Im not blinkered i see wots going on but , as of yet i dont feel infringed in any way .. mind, im now going to watch a little more closely .

regards
GIT



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by ninthaxis
 


Ok I didnt know that ...my son bought a Pay as you Go Phone and he had to call them to activate it (according to the directions) I didnt know you could do it online .....he did have to give his name number address etc ...As I said he didnt have to prove it though ..so I guess you could use bogus info ..



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 11:12 AM
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CCTV footage of the Joey Barton Assault

you've been in a big brother/police state for a few years, since they "stamped out" hooliganism

add to the fact that your police don't even have a need to carry guns.....WTF are you gonna do when HULKAMANIA RUNS WILD ON YOU!!!!!!!!!

NOTHING cause you're gonna have sticks and knives against guns lol

CCTV is all around the UK watching you take a piss when you're coming home from a bar

[edit on 20-10-2008 by OSSkyWatcher]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by WERE_ALL_GONA_DIE
 


Thank you for kind post



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by azzllin

Sort out your own crap, before trying to start a revolution in our country, we don't need one, and all you Brits falling for this crap, you should be ashamed of yourselfs, think about it for a second, and lie if you want too, but you know damn well all is ok.




I speak from personal experience that all is NOT ok. Confiscation of property for over nine months just to "make sure" I wasn't a threat to National Security. It sickens me.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by GodForbid

So if you're a normal person with nothing to hide, you really have nothing to worry about. If they have access to your phone calls and conversations, it really doesn't matter, because they can't possibly monitor them all anyway, it'd be like winning the lottery if they actually pick you out.

Also, if you've not planning terrorist attacks, massive drug runs, or whatever. Then why do you care anyway? I don't care if someone wants to listen to me phone me Nan and see how she is or if she needs something from the shop. I have nothing to hide.

What is the problem?


Ah, that old chestnut. "If you have nothing to hide..."

Well I have plenty to hide, namely my privacy. You may love telling the whole world what you watched on the idiot box last night. You might even take some strange pleasure from sharing intimate spousal moments with complete strangers. I do not. My dignity and privacy are paramount. This is non-negotiable.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 12:20 PM
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You guys in the UK must fight these dictatorial gits,man if not then the rest of Europe will just roll over for the NWO.Winston Churchill did not intend for y'all to be slaves to a bunch of neo-nazi wankers!!!!


[edit on 20-10-2008 by mike dangerously]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by Nirgal
You may love telling the whole world what you watched on the idiot box last night. You might even take some strange pleasure from sharing intimate spousal moments with complete strangers. I do not. My dignity and privacy are paramount. This is non-negotiable.




If you think that TPTB intend to rule the world so they can monitor your sex life and televisual experience then you are seriously deluded!

Yeah. I can see it now. 10 Downing Street, the whole cabinet hunched over speeding fists watching the populous get it on!




posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 12:55 PM
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Yes as someone already pointed out, we are not talking about them being able to listen to you talking to your wife about whats for dinner. We are talking about personal and private information.


Governments and other organizations collect vast amounts of personal information for a variety of purposes. The law of privacy limits how these organizations can collect and use this information.

As a member of the European Convention on Human Rights, the United Kingdom adheres to Article 8 ECHR, which guarantees a "right to respect for privacy and family life"

* Health privacy laws
* Financial privacy laws
* Online privacy laws
* Communication privacy laws
* Information privacy



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by skibtz
 


Resorting to ridicule to discredit an argument is pretty bad form (IMHO).

I was citing two examples to illustrate a point. The corollary of being able to monitor anything is that it is possible to monitor everything.



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by Nirgal

Originally posted by lightchild

I won't even vote; that's supposed to be anonymous but I can tell you from experience it is not. I'm probably already on their list of "potential subversives".


In agreement here with you on this. I live in North Ireland. I don't vote, never have. I don't belong to any religious affiliation and have zero input to my own country's system of politics. Believe ours is as rife with corruption as everybody's is on Earth. My beloved Island has torn itself to pieces over religions & politics....

Voting never ended the violence here in Ireland. NO, it has not gone away, merely shifts in the power and control of it, by those that should not have that power, and NO, I don't ever see it going away.

My non-vote is statement of my non belief in anything that comes out of a politicians mouth anymore. Be it home, the UK the USA or anywhere for that matter I just cant have faith in these so called systems of democracy anymore. Its seems to be a cancer that has infected the whole system.

I cannot bring myself to vote for a party & system and politics that is cancerous to its people, as I could vote on having a tumor implant. Sorry. I just don't see any good candidates, so why should I bother voting in the first place.

I will vote when there is a fundamental change in political governing. Something like what the American constitution was SUPPOSED to stand for. Ruled by the people for the people. ....I can dream cant I
..zzzzzzzzzz

Just my 2cts
Peace people
Kirky

[edit on 20-10-2008 by kirky]

[edit on 20-10-2008 by kirky]



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 01:33 PM
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What a GREAT THREAD!!

This has been happening for a while and the people seem not to care less. The police can now see every corner and hear all conversations while you walk on the street. They can even talk to people from these systems. This has been masked by saying its all for the peoples good and to protect them.

All news broadcasts are depressing, bleak and rely information that will make the public more easy to control through playing with their emotions. The British Brainwashing Channel (BBC) are true experts in this type of controlled information.

It is time for the British Isle Sheeple to wake up and take a stand against Gordon"Bull****"Brown and his NWO agenda!!



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by Nirgal
Resorting to ridicule to discredit an argument is pretty bad form (IMHO).


C'mon, lighten up ffs, it was a bit of humour - sorry if it offended you!



I was citing two examples to illustrate a point. The corollary of being able to monitor anything is that it is possible to monitor everything.


Can you give me two other examples out of the 'everything' pot please?

My problem is that I do not know what it is that TPTB can do with my info that is so detrimental to me.

I am not being sarcastic here btw, I really would like to know what it is that TPTB would like to be doing with me!



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 02:51 PM
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Hi There,

It really is disappointing, that due to my (and other's) tolerance towards a law requiring people to give identifying details when buying a 'pay-as-you-go' mobile phone, that some responders should both assume and accuse us of being any less-informed than they are as to 'totalitarian creep' potentially embedding itself throughout society.

I am not unaware, nor am I asleep. I 'know' when I am being tresspassed against, and it is I who will decide how it affects me, and what action I will take. I fear neither my government nor any potential terrorist, and will speak out against them whenever my perception of them and their actions holds a valid and reasoned argument. Equally, I will not allow myself to tremble and shudder at the vast swathe of suspicion and paranoia arguments being bandied about that are not based in reality or do not hold a valid argument. In fact, I will argue against them with equal gusto, as it is my duty to myself that I retain a sense of balance in my perceptions and discernment.

I live in the UK, and although there are many CCTV cameras on many city streets, there is not one that surveilles the inside of my home, nor at my place of employment (except external to the premises). CCTV cameras as well as their potential to be abused (to a limited degree) also aid the public by acting as a distant 'virtual' witness to a event causing distress; it's all about 'pros' and 'cons'. When the 'cons' outweigh the 'pros', then is a time for argument and protest.

If you are one whom views CCTV as totalitarian eyes, I have no compunction to dissuade of you that, you can wallow in your paranoia as much as you like; for everytime you base your argument against CCTV as being totalitarian, I will base my argument for CCTV where it aided the public in their time of need, from assaults to acccidents, and getting the emergency services to the spot as quickly as possible. Remember, pros and cons!

When I (or you) interface with public insitutions and utility and entertainment services, especially where I (or you) have to pay for such services, I (and you) have to give certain identitfying details to them in order that I (and you) can enjoy their services. It's a small sacrifice of personal privacy that aids the functioning of society. The mobile phone issue comes under this circumspect, and in no way does it add to the potential of totalitarian creep.

I do not deny that there are certain aspects of today's society that can be perceived and interpreted as being 'Orwellian' in their function, but I still maintain that this country I live in is still far removed from being any where near a representation of Orwell's vision. Black and grey are not the colours of my country's flag, nor will I stand by in silence and watch them fade to such. Remember, pros and cons, and a balanced perception and discernment.

Best wishes



posted on Oct, 20 2008 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by skibtz
 

It offended a little but I've had a bad day at the "office" and I'm a little grumpy. Call it six and two threes.

As far as I'm aware, systems such as Echelon (and whatever's out there that we don't know about) listen for keywords and flag accordingly. Any particular phone call, however innocuous can theoretically be monitored. Now, I may be talking with my wife (or significant other) and the conversation may become sexual nature. A conversation that is intimate in nature is not one that I would like anyone listening in on.

Yes, just because it can be done doesn't mean it is being done, however there is no way of knowing for certain. I don't see the need for anyone knowing my spending habits (credit/debit cards); my traveling habits (oyster); or voting habits.

I'm sure that being ignorant of these technologies and associated policies that call for phone and email records being kept on file is wonderful. If I didn't know this was happening I would be carrying on my business and probably quite happy to boot. Problem is I do know and it scares me.

Excuse the rambling, it's only 9pm but it is my bedtime and I'm struggling to keep the peepers open.



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