My UK Friends, Freedom Not Fear

Here in the states when you buy a phone (even the pay as you go ones) you have to use a HOME phone just to call them ..you give name address etc to even get it activated ...and the phone companies already turn over anything our Gov wants to them ...they also track them (you can bet on that )since they all have a chip ..and our President has already been given the go ahead to listen in on any phones ..

So here it is already happening ...
Maybe you dont have show an ID yet to buy one or activate it but I am sure it wont be long.

Hi There,

As much as I dislike state intrusion into my personal life, I don't believe that requiring identification when buying a mobile phone is really much of a issue. Prior to the roll-out of mobile technology, there were two main avenues for the public to communicate with each other...the post and the land line telephone. Whilst both avenues were easily surveilled, it required a court order backed up with a certain amount of evidence for them to be 'tapped' into.

If you moved to a new address, you were/are required to provide that address to a number of civil and public institutions you normally interface with throughout your daily life. Your employer, your bank, passport and driving license, the NHS and your doctor, and dentist, even the library and a plethora of other major/minor agencies...all of which are surveillable (with a court order, but obviously today, powers exist that circumnavigate the requirement of a court order).

When you have a telephone land line installed, no one bats a eyelid when giving their identity and address to BT, for billing and payment purposes. Requiring identification for a mobile phone is no different. I feel it is necessary that we need to keep a proper perspective on some (arguable) state intrusions, in the battle against organised crime and genuine terrorism.

Of course, there is a real concern regarding the potential for the state, any state, to abuse surveillance powers and abilities, but it has to be balanced with a clear and arguable perspective and evidence gathering into such abuse. No one likes the uncomfortable idea that one's private and personal communications are potentially being monitored by total strangers, but whether we like it or not, the troubled multicultural society we have deems it to be prudent that some transparency throughout the spectrum of that society be observable under necessary and essential circumstances. The problem is, it's a complex and emotive debate, requiring cool heads and objective reasoning to navigate.

I personally have no problem giving my identity if required when buying a new mobile phone, none whatsoever. It's a none issue, deflecting the greater concern of state surveillance abuses...that's where the real argument lies, not whose phone it is that is being monitored, but the content that is being monitored. A stable society musts needs monitor itself to some degree, but there is a very fine line between acceptable surveillance and non-acceptable surveillance, and that in itself is a ongoing debate, or should be.

Best wishes

reply to post by WERE_ALL_GONA_DIE



Dude, if every last one of you don't fight the Lisbon Treaty then you'll end up in the same boat.

Our right of referendum was taken away the EU will force another upon you sooner than you think, the people of the Republic of Ireland have to do one thing the british have been incapable of doing = Speak with one voice and keep reminding your government who they actually work for.

What is intersesting is that after so many years of conflict, the young people of Ireland became far more politically educated compared to their dumbed down cousins over here.


Keep their feet to the fire dude "If you tolerate this then your children will be next"

Originally posted by lightchild

3. I cannot remember the last time a peaceful protest changed government policy.

"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall — think of it, always


Gandhi

England is too far gone... Here are some examples of just how bad it has gotten - for those of us outside the UK.

This is a Poster placed near bus stops... Safe Beneath The Watchful Eyes..


This is Scary,England Employs and rewards poeple who go around swabbing spit and snot off the walls and ground in order to enter in into the NATIONAL DNA Database... And secure a conviction.


Oh Great, Now THEY are "going Live 24/7" and they offer 'benefits' for those who become registered informants....


If you see anyone with a cellphone suitcase and a labtop - Report Them....God help Us all if they should also have a Van. Stasi Time.


This is another from the Same Series. It is the most frightening. Stasi Time!


Compared to the Real Posters - this fictional one is almost comforting.



England is now home to more pervasive surveillance systems than The Soviet Union ever was.

*Before you attack me for being American, I will tell you now that I am not an American.

[edit on 20-10-2008 by TruthTellist]

British/Welsh/Scottish? You mean English/Welsh/Scottish!

Why didn't you say English? Am Scottish and i cringe when i here people saying that! British = England, Wales, Scotland, Northen Ireland!

i dont see a problem????

You want a home phone, you need to tell them where you live and provide bank details for payments to BT/Virgin/whoever

You want a contract mobile phone you need to tell them where you live and provide bank details for payments to orange/virgin/o2/whoever

Why should a pay as you go be any different if your not using it for nefarious purposes

If they want to listen in, they will do regardless of whether they know where you live or not, it just helps them track down people committing crimes. So what? Its not like they going to track you down and nick you for ringing the wife up and telling her to get tea on, your leaving the pub in 10 minutes.

This is just paranoid nonsense, the same as you get with ID cards. I lived in Spain for 4 years and had to carry ID on me at all times. So what? No big deal if i wasnt committing a crime. The only people who would suffer from an ID card scheme are illegal immigrants, quite frankly i dont care about that, they shouldnt be here. Same as with this phone idea, the only people who would suffer are the ones using them to commit crime, again, i dont care. Like i say, they can listen in anyway, the horse has bolted, there is no point locking the stable door

reply to post by expatwhite


I can see the propaganda has worked with you.

You post really is an excellent example. I enjoyed it.

Got Nothing Hide? You are not a criminal or a TERRORIST, Are YOU?







[edit on 20-10-2008 by TruthTellist]

This is the reason I left London to go home back to Ireland in the first place. After 9/11 I thought it would only be a matter of time before something like that would happen in the UK. I left on 1-6-05 and boy was I right. I probably would of gotten caught up in the Edgware Rd tube bombings as i used that station every day to get to and from work. Plus after the deployment of the "Police Community Support Officer"(or Vichy Police/Finger Men) in the London area around 2002/2003 I was a little bit suspicious of their roll as fake Police after I had a run in with one of them in a McDonald's around Christmas 2004. I was sitting eating a big mac when I had a phone call from a friend as we chatted he said something funny and I laughed, two seconds later I look up and there's two PCSO's standing in front of me one of them demanding to know what i was laughing at. I looked up and said what and he asked the same question again, I told him it was none of his business and to leave me in peace so i could eat my big mac. He took offense to this and asked me if he could see some ID and i told him no he cant and i proceeded to tell him my rights as well as the fact that he has no right to ask me for ID. Then he had the cheek to ask me what was in my bag, at this stage i was fuming and told him to fu@k off and if he kept harassing me Id call the Police. Then he said we are the Police I just laughed and carried on eating my big mac. They just walked away talking into their radios. I half expected them to return with the real Police but they didn't. Im not sure if that was a power trip for that particular person but you get what Im saying. I moved back to Ireland and now Im lucky if i see one Garda (police) a month. Plus the fact that we as a people wont bow down to tyrannical rule as we have shown in the past.

Some links related to this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread399303/pg1
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by TruthTellist


Britain is nothing like the Soviet Union, where the hel are you getting this crap from? and whats with all the Americans jumping in with stupid comments like, England is gone, its too late?

I bet our lives here are a damn more tolerable than the ever increasing crap that America is throwing at you? A complete and utter fool running for the republicans, with his little slapper at his side full of ?

And the only decent prospect for president under constant racial attack.

America sort your own crap out before you start in on Great Britain, we might have a few problems, but at least we pick up our fallen, not stick them in a tent, because they can't afford the bills.

For the benefit of those who are not British, Britain is good thank you, no prison camps here, no trains going to take us to one either, I don't think its a police state to protect the innocent, how does a poster on a bus shelter warning about spitting take over the country? if someone spat at an American bus stop, you would have hazmat suits all over because of Aids, and a man hunt to blow the bastard away.

Sort out your own crap, before trying to start a revolution in our country, we don't need one, and all you Brits falling for this crap, you should be ashamed of yourselfs, think about it for a second, and lie if you want too, but you know damn well all is ok.

Originally posted by expatwhite
i dont see a problem????

You want a home phone, you need to tell them where you live and provide bank details for payments to BT/Virgin/whoever

You want a contract mobile phone you need to tell them where you live and provide bank details for payments to orange/virgin/o2/whoever

Why should a pay as you go be any different if your not using it for nefarious purposes

You wait and see when a couple of years down the line you'll be talking to someone on the phone and you tell that person that you don't agree with a policy or something one of you heads of state has said and five minutes later an APC with homeland security soldiers/police turn up at your door and put a black hood over your head and your never seen again. Wait and see!

Originally posted by Saf85
Lol seriously, you looking to get people locked up or something?

You ever notice how the police film protests, rallies, riots etc? They make sure everyone who is a trouble maker is on film, then they can add you to a list. When the police state kicks in 100%, you will be the first people to get detained, tortured, raped, killed etc. All because you objected to the inevitable.

This attitude plays right into the hands of the totalitarians. You are supposed to keep quiet because you are supposed to be afraid.

We are faced with two options - fight it now or keep your mouth shut and hope your skin will be saved when all liberties have been destroyed. The second option is the one that many otherwise good folk took during the rise of Nazi Germany.

The only way to oppose this is to stand up, get your name on their lists, get your face in front of their cameras and by example embolden others to do the same. The longer their lists the better for all of us. The power of the elite rests in preventing the masses from uniting against them.

TruthTellist - I had to look twice at those posters to convince myself they weren't advertising a remake of George Orwell's 1984. Truly telling.

[edit on 20-10-2008 by EvilAxis]

Originally posted by TruthTellist
reply to post by expatwhite

 

I can see the propaganda has worked with you.

You post really is an excellent example. I enjoyed it.

Got Nothing Hide? You are not a criminal or a TERRORIST, Are YOU?

You know nothing about me so dont start with the "you have fallen for the propaganda" BS. Tell you what, why not try a PROPER response and address the points i made with a rebuttal. Explain to the world exactly how it will interfere with your life or your rights as a UK citizen to give an address when you buy a pay as you go phone...go on, im waiting ....

I cant understand your logic in coming back with an attempt (poor one at that ) at sarcasm when this is supposed to be a discussion board. Or is that you CANT rebut my post above and resorted to the lowest form of response as thats all you could think of

meh...

Originally posted by WERE_ALL_GONA_DIE
Hello all british people from the Republic of ireland
I'm making this thread because what i see in the UK sickens me and i hate to see my British/whelsh/Scottish bredren in such a horrible situation

Your government is building a police state. In today's Times, we learn that we will need to show Your passports when buying mobile phones. This is real.

"Passports will be needed to buy mobile phones"
www.timesonline.co.uk...
(I raged while reading this article.)

"Everyone who buys a mobile telephone will be forced to register their identity on a national database under government plans to extend massively the powers of state surveillance."

"Government will spy on every call and e-mail"
www.timesonline.co.uk...

Ministers are considering spending up to £12 billion on a database to monitor and store the internet browsing habits, e-mail and telephone records of everyone in Britain.

Here are two other articles of relevance.
www.timesonline.co.uk...
www.timesonline.co.uk...

Last week, Freedom Not Fear protests took place in various cities across Europe.

www.freedom-not-fear.eu...

While in Germany this protest was huge, the ones in London were tiny. WTF? Do the British actually want to live in a Big Brother police state?

Here's a Number 10 petition to sign.
petitions.number10.gov.uk...

You must rise up and take action, bothers! You must show that You will not allow the state to enslave You, You must demonstrate and protest - peacefully of course - before they outlaw that as well.

Would 5th November be a good date? It's the obvious one.

FREEDOM, NOT FEAR!

[edit on 19-10-2008 by WERE_ALL_GONA_DIE]

i live in germany and have heard nothing of such protests...

reply to post by azzllin



No camps here ? Don't you mean yet ?

New 'super-prisons' to be built

Prison overcrowding remains a problem in England and Wales


Justice Secretary
Three "super-prisons" each housing about 2,500 offenders are to be built, Justice Secretary Jack Straw has said.

Personally, I think people over react 10 fold with things like this.

Don't get me wrong, I love my conspiracy theory's, but this one needs a little thought.

Firstly, let's say there's 60 million people in the UK. They each make 3 phone calls a day. I make a lot more than that usually, but 3 is a fair minimum, so 3 calls a day. That makes 180 Million phone calls a day. There is no way at all that they could possibly monitor every single phone call without having atleast 30 million workers working 8 hours a day in shifts to monitor all of the phone calls. So saying they're going to monitor all of your phone calls is ridiculous, they just couldn't afford the man power to do so.

So that being said, why would they want to do this? For our security. Terrorism, etc. They'll only have the man power to spy on people they think are worthy of spying on.

So if you're a normal person with nothing to hide, you really have nothing to worry about. If they have access to your phone calls and conversations, it really doesn't matter, because they can't possibly monitor them all anyway, it'd be like winning the lottery if they actually pick you out.

Also, if you've not planning terrorist attacks, massive drug runs, or whatever. Then why do you care anyway? I don't care if someone wants to listen to me phone me Nan and see how she is or if she needs something from the shop. I have nothing to hide.

What is the problem?

Amen. This needs to be heard, shouted, cryed out about in outrage. The government has no right whatsoever to make living harder for us than it already is in some places.

I'm sorry for those in the United Kingdom having to put up with these new laws, but your not alone. The U.S as you very well know is right there with you. Maybe if we stick up together, we could get something done.

[Believing of course, that one can WIN against the govenment.]
It CAN happen.

I am English.

I no longer live in the Uk

Yes I agree that England is heading for total control over everything you do on a daily basis.

I agree that this is not good...passport for mobile.

Some people in here are failing to look at the bigger picture here. Do some research and join the dots.

Go and take a look at some of the videos on you tube from Ian R Crane or David Ike.

Just go and listen to what he has to say about Big Brother Britain...it will open your eyes and your jaw will drop, I guarantee!

It won't require millions of workers to monitor every call made. It will require a large computer only.

They say it is to prevent terrorists!....so why are any government agency allowed to access the information??? Why can somebody working at the employment agency be allowed to review your calls???

Look at the bigger picture, I used to say the exact same thing....if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about.
That is what they want you to think!!!!

You are losing your freedoms on a daily basis. Now that I am out of the UK I see it more clearly now.

Please do some research even just watch one of the videos, you will learn a great deal.

Thanks

David Ike - Big Brother

Yet another poster who cannot provide ANY valid reason for not giving ID when buying a payg phone. I dont want to watch other peoples videos and join the dots as you say-i want to make my own mind up and not give in to irrational fear over something and nothing. I left the UK for 4 years and moved back last year. Exactly how much have i noticed my civil liberties being erroded? NONE. (apart from going to football, but thats a different matter altogether)

I prefer my own experience and judgement to someone who claimed to be the son of God. Strange that that claim gets ignored, yet his other claims get listened to eh?

WTF is the biggie?

What are they going to do with that information anyway that is so detrimental to my health?

I am more worried about about the damage done when a terrorist's bomb goes off on the underground, or when a plane drops out of the funking sky in to a building in the heart of a city or when a convicted murderer/rapist/bad mofo is on the loose.

I say 'when' because it has happened and will continue to happen - the above is reality.

The NWO is merely a fear-fuelled prediction put forth for decades and never came to fruition. (Yet!)

So come on. What is it that they will do with this info?

[edit on 20/10/2008 by skibtz]