The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

reply to post by redhatty
Agreed...fundamentals/macro-trending/contango/ect has no relevance now...

It's turned to a "emotion/fear" trade..."the great panic of 1907"...only now B.O. is helping JPM...

It appears history does repeat it's self...this time it just happens to be at our "75th payout" bankruptsy deadline...1933...2008...screw with yer creditors... and all shall pay...(another thread for later...)


Agreed on Bond Markets also...widening spreads will put affordable finance/re-finance out of reach of many "teetering" countries...rolling over will be met with resistance as countries struggle with their own stimulus/covers...

a BIG "log jam" seems to be where this is headed...


Actually +/-2% after the cycle today isn't to bad in Eastern Markets...

OK...NOW...what's the impetuous tomorrow?

Everyone knows Toyota is toast, with $ losses & job losses...
more HSBC & AIG?

Edit: As of 2:30 am est Hx3 said..."screw it..." and went to CRASH, after 3 Hrs sleep in the past 2 days...

After a good "regeneration cycle"...it'll be all good...(fingers crossed...)


[edit on 3/3/2009 by Hx3_1963]

reply to post by Hx3_1963


So far, I think today is going to be the "take a deep breath" after yesterday.

I know I will actually get some sleep tonight You should too!

US automaker reports will start coming in in the am, that could be a game changer but I *think* their losses are already priced in

[edit on 3/3/09 by redhatty]

reply to post by redhatty
Mind Reader... that you are...ZZZzzz...LoL...till DJIA open..at this rate...

Gold trades on various exchanges 24/7 - Globex - Shanghai - TOCOM - LBMA - but over ninety % is traded on the floor in the NY.

"80% of the gold bugs own paper gold"

Gold bugs own physical - trade paper. PM ETF's = ok trading vehicles - poor long-term investments...issues = constant leverage trap + degenerative decay + tracking errors + counterparty risk. Goldbugs abhor counterparty risk.

See Tulving Co (20oz min).

GL

Originally posted by OBE1
Gold trades on various exchanges 24/7 - Globex - Shanghai - TOCOM - LBMA - but over ninety % is traded on the floor in the NY.

"80% of the gold bugs own paper gold"

Gold bugs own physical - trade paper. PM ETF's = ok trading vehicles - poor long-term investments...issues = constant leverage trap + degenerative decay + tracking errors + counterparty risk. Goldbugs abhor counterparty risk.

See Tulving Co (20oz min).

GL

Creative editing is not very nice My full statement was

you know what is really crazy - 80% of the goldbugs own paper gold and not enough physical.

I am well aware of the activity on COMEX/NYMEX in NY - you know the trader's nickname for COMEX?

Crimex

I hear from and deal with plenty of goldbugs And I too own physical gold and silver - investment coinage - not just jewelry

I've also watched many of my goldbug friends suffer as they wait - holding that paper gold - for gold to reach those oh so high levels they really believe it will reach.

Nothing against goldbugs, we all have different trading/investing strategies. I would simply NEVER trade in a piece of paper that is supposed to be a commodity. You can't "cash it in" for the real thing

typo

[edit on 3/3/09 by redhatty]

Originally posted by redhatty
My full statement was "you know what is really crazy - 80% of the goldbugs own paper gold and not enough physical".

"80% of the gold bugs own paper" ???

Can you support your full statement redhatty?

I'll repeat, Goldbugs prefer the security of physical. The whole concept centers on a distrust of paper...we accumulate physical as a store...trade paper for profit.

GL


Edit add: The amount of 'physical' a Goldbug might own is based on personal requirements/limitations...that's not the issue - so it wasn't quoted. OTOH, to imply that 80% of Goldbugs are top-heavy paper simply doesn't hold water. Again, Goldbugs abhor the counterparty risk associated with paper.


[edit on 3-3-2009 by OBE1]

I was wondering what was behind the sudden market-to-metal switch in the latest topic. So I check on the NIKKEI . . . -0.69%!. That's not fair! Where is the Asian market panic!?

I hope that NYSE saves the day and the Dow plummets bellow 6k to deliver the predicted and desired. Keep your fingers crossed.

Originally posted by OBE1
Can you support your full statement redhatty?

I'll repeat, Goldbugs prefer the security of physical. The whole concept centers on a distrust of paper...we accumulate physical as a store...trade paper for profit.

I am quite sure that your description of goldbugs is just as anecdotal as mine. I do not know how many traders you deal with on a regular basis, either in person or via the internet, I know that I deal with thousands.

But hey, I am reachable here if you want to discuss it, rather than sidetrack this thread with it

With that in mind...FUTURES
S&P 500 +3.10 708.60 3/3 7:10am
Fair Value 699.90 3/2 9:52pm
Difference* +8.70

Dow Jones +10.00 6800.00

NASDAQ -2.75 1083.25 3/3 6:33am
Fair Value 1076.64 3/2 9:52pm
Difference* +6.61

And more good *cough* news

The bond market is doing the equivalent of a death watch on several well-known companies, signaling the U.S. economy could be in for more pain as struggling firms renege on loan payments and possibly file for bankruptcy.
Bonds of General Motors Corp. (GM 2.01, -0.24, -10.7%) and auto supplier Visteon Corp. (VC 0.09, -0.02, -18.2%) ; retailer Michaels Stores and theme-park operator Six Flags Inc. (SIX 0.24, 0.00, 0.0%) ; media firm Univision; and leveraged buyouts Rite Aid Corp. (RAD 0.23, -0.05, -17.9%) and Station Casinos all are trading for under 25 cents on the dollar.
Death watch
Bond prices for these companies indicate investors anticipate they may default
Company Industry Bond prices on $1 (Maturity/coupon)
General Motors Auto $0.14 (2033/8.375%)
Ford Auto $0.19 (2031/7.45%)
Visteon Auto $0.05 (2014/7%)
American Axle Auto $0.16 (2017/7.875%)
ArvinMeritor Auto $0.23 (2015/8.125%)
Six Flags Entertainment $0.18 (2014/9.625%)
Station Casinos Entertainment $0.05 (2014/6.5%)
Univision Media $0.09 (2015/9.97%)
Dex Media Media $0.07 (2013/9%)
Michaels Retail $0.24 (2016/11.37%)
Rite Aid Retail $0.24 (2015/8.625%)
Data: KDP Investment Advisors

#comment1735662]Source: Market Watch

Wise Words From Karl Denninger: Beware The Sharp Snapback

And TALF opens

Under today’s announcement, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York will lend up to $200 billion to eligible owners of certain AAA-rated ABS backed by newly and recently originated auto loans, credit card loans, student loans, and SBA-guaranteed small business loans. Issuers and investors in the private sector are expected to begin arranging and marketing new securitizations of recently generated loans, and subscriptions for funding in March will be accepted on March 17, 2009. On March 25, 2009, those new securitizations will be funded by the program, creating new lending capacity for additional future loans.

The program will hold monthly fundings through December 2009 or longer if the Federal Reserve Board chooses to extend the facility.

Sorry don't have a link yet

And we have a strange headline that is deja-vu from last month - could have SWORN that last month was a consumer spending UP month...

Consumer Spending Rises After Six Straight Drops

News manipulation??

Markets OPEN!
And Moving UP!!! - See link to Karl's Post!

and a rutroh!

Hidden Pension Fiasco May Foment Another $1 Trillion Bailout

[edit on 3/3/09 by redhatty]

Originally posted by redhatty
And we have a strange headline that is deja-vu from last month - could have SWORN that last month was a consumer spending UP month...

Yeah, I remember seeing that same news last month, too. That's actually really funny to me.

Glad someone else remembers it My memory is not as good as it used to be

Here's a link (not to the excerpt I posted) about the new TALF Launch

Goldman Sachs (GS) and GE are getting HAMMERED - serious nose-diving on these stocks, gold is taking a drop too.

No news on why

[edit on 3/3/09 by redhatty]

Originally posted by redhatty
shameless plug for the ticker guy

Blog talk radio show begins in about 8 minutes - he will be covering today's market as well as market news

Check it out

redhatty, thanks a bunch for the reminder and the link. I really enjoyed listenning to this guy. He is a no nonsense smart cookie. He is a no doom and gloom but tells it like it is. He knows how to get us out of this mess based on past experience and unfortunately it's not what this administration is doing. I recommend all who like this thread to listen to his next radio show.

FTSE 100 3,540.95 10:50AM ET 84.88 (2.34%)
Stockholm General 187.00 11:05AM ET 3.71 (1.95%)
MIBTel 11,557.00 11:06AM ET 259.00 (2.19%)
OSE All Share 243.58 10:51AM ET 5.63 (2.26%)
AEX General 203.13 11:06AM ET 5.71 (2.73%)
BEL-20 1,575.89 11:07AM ET 34.67 (2.15%)

Dow Jones Industrial Average 6,764.97 11:07am ET 1.68 (0.02%)
S&P 500 INDEX,RTH 700.57 11:08am ET 0.04 (0.01%)

Gold $909

13-WEEK TREASURY BILL 0.27 10:54am ET 0.04 (17.39%)

GE 6.97 -0.63 -8.29%

Congressman uses "Masters of the Universe" remark pointed at BB

[edit on 3/3/2009 by Hx3_1963]

reply to post by Hx3_1963


Welcome back Hx3, hope you got some much needed sleep

Well, Bernanke is getting Grilled by the Senate Budget Comittee right now and the gains of the morning have reversed.

Bernanke's response to Senator Murray, I think 'the impending catastrophe in the commercial real estate market', was quite the tell on the next bubble to pop!!

reply to post by redhatty
Yes sleep is a good thing!

I just love the way BB sidesteps questions!

He has made some sublimital remarks hasn't he?

Stander...will you translate BB speak for us???

Dow Jones Industrial Average 6,724.19 11:19am ET -39.10 (-0.58%)
S&P 500 INDEX,RTH 694.82 11:20am ET -6.00 (-0.86%)

yep...gains erased...

There's that word again..

Arbitrage: In economics and finance, arbitrage is the practice of taking advantage of a price differential between two or more markets: striking a combination of matching deals that capitalize upon the imbalance, the profit being the difference between the market prices. When used by academics, an arbitrage is a transaction that involves no negative cash flow at any probabilistic or temporal state and a positive cash flow in at least one state; in simple terms, a risk-free profit.
en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 3/3/2009 by Hx3_1963]

Originally posted by Hx3_1963

yep...gains erased...

[edit on 3/3/2009 by Hx3_1963]

wow... just wow...

reply to post by Hx3_1963


Heh, I'll give the BB speak a shot - We have never lost with our short term loan policy - real meaning: We have never had to do this before and we are PRAYING we are still able to function after funding all these zombie banks.

AIG makes me angry - real meaning: We have no real collateral on this one, but if we let them fail, China will bomb the US, what choice do we have?

BB: we are reviewing our privacy policy before we can release the names of the banks who received tarp money - real meaning: we don't want the US taxpayer to start a run on the zombie banks and crash the system for us, we still have some profits to make before we let them fail.

How did I do?

reply to post by redhatty
That was a translation worthy of a Oscar!!!

Very well done Sir...the masses should now have a better grasp of what they're ACTUALLY taking about!

Star 4 U!


BB: We only lend to AAA credit worthy agencys...
Real Meaning: We'll end up with all the misrepresented junk securitys...


[edit on 3/3/2009 by Hx3_1963]

reply to post by Hx3_1963


S&P level has brought us back to 1996 - talk about a lost decade. Below 700 and I don't see it coming back up with the market calling BB on his lies.

The Market Calls You On All Lies

Sometimes fast, sometimes slow, but eventually the truth comes out because the math doesn't lie.

There are 52K puts on June GE share options up for $2.50 - that's a Bankruptcy move - bad, very bad

Karl explains it so well: Here It Comes (GE)

[edit on 3/3/09 by redhatty]

reply to post by redhatty
Yep...just waiting till the right moment and *whoosh*...where will poor Larry Kudlow go if GE/CNBC goes belly up?

That default list you put up was also quite enlightening...some pretty high %'s on those...


[edit on 3/3/2009 by Hx3_1963]

reply to post by Hx3_1963


Aw Shucks

I was just trying to keep the thread updated while you got some sleep

Glad I made ya proud