10/9/08 - FSME Denninger Special Report - IT'S HERE!

Hong Kong HSCC down 273 points. 1 more point hits the 10% trigger.

Hong Kong Hang Seng is down 1330 points or 8.62% . Closing in on the 10% trigger point for each.

reply to post by beammeup


I'm sorry to inform you those offers are to keep us thinking everything is alright. Of course, if you actually tried to get the loans or credit, chances are you wouldnh't have.

There have also been a lot of reports of people's credit cards being reduced and/or closed, even those with high FICO scores in the past month.

Anyone here?

Actually, I'm surprised Grim hasn't waded in here with his opinion yet. It should be interesting when he does.

reply to post by gate13


The trillions are the sum of the bailouts, (not just the bailout bill) and the market loses. I believe the retirement accounts alone have had market loses of multiple trillions, due to the failure to contain the mess with the bailout bill, and all the lying and cheating to stick save the banks and corporate america.

The bottom line is TRILLIONS have vanished from the US economy - it's just gone.

OK, so just for arguments sake, say everything being siad here is correct and by tomorrow or monday the entire US market crashes, and Bush lets it be known that the US is defaulting on all it's debt to the world *cough* China.

What are you guys looking at here living wise? Are we talking everyone out of a job asap and the counrty basically destroying itself?

And given that this happens, what kind of backlash am i looking at here in Canada, I've asked this question numerous times, but i never really get a solid answer. Given our two economies are linked so tight and canada is SOOOOO dependant on exporting to the US, do you guys see Canada falling just like states? And if so what would i be looking at here as in how is my life going to change day to day.......here is a bit of background on my situation

I'm not working, as a medical condition forced me out of my job in a sawmill. I was forced pretty much to go back to school so i could get the training needed for a deskjob (accounting btw ) and my only income to support me and my family is OSAP loans (Which is basically loans from the government to support my family while im in school, for those who dont know) So if this all happens.....

1. Will schools be closing because noone can pay anyone wages?
2. If schools actually saty open would my government funding get removed you think?
3. Arw we talking global depression like in the "great depression"

Edit for crappy spelling as usual.

[edit on 10/9/0808 by Trayen11]

Don't you think that in addition to asking people to write/call/e-mail everyone and their mother and making demands, Denninger should have said something to CALM people rather than incite near hysteria?

The mass panic and talk of bank run's is only making things worse. The psychological toll this is taking on people is now a MAJOR contributing factor to this out of control downward spiral.

I passionatly believe that it is imperative that people be encouraged to remain calm during this time ... if your clothes catch on fire the last thing you should do is run around flailing your arms in the air screaming 'I'm on fire, I'm on fire!' as that only guarantees that the flames will spread and make things worse. It seems there is a lot of that type of behavior happening at the moment.

Jemison

Relentless,
Please if you could put into lamen's terms what that graph represented on that document. I can follow numbers easily but am having a hard time grasping the meanin of that graph.

reply to post by Trayen11


Honestly - none of us can answer your questions, because we just don't know. we don't know what will happen to us tomorrow and we can't be sure how it will affect you, but we are all in trouble.

reply to post by Trayen11


Trayen,

It is said in some parts of the US that Canada is "Little America." You are correct that we are so intertwined that whatever happens here will affect you there. I am beginning to buy into the US crash and the subsequent Canada and Mexico crash that will lead to the NAU and the Amero. I really hope that I am wrong though.

So did the Nikkei close down 974, or is trading suspended? I see some really bad things about to happen. Runs on banks starting tomorrow, unless Bush declares martial law, then it still gets ugly. Good Lord help us!

If this is so important, why isn't it slamming the front page of everything, like CNN, CBC, Russiatoday, BBC, or even Digg? If the world is about to collapse tomorrow, I think everyone should at least be aware, panic or not...

I remain optimistic.

I do believe that the market will bottom out in a few weeks and will rebound to record levels within few years.

Those who stay in the market will fair well.

Those who bail out, will suffer.

This is going to hurt, but it is not the end.

reply to post by SuperSecretSquirrel


I agree, it pains me to say it, but any Canadian who does acknowledge our dependance on America is living in a dream land, the fact is we as Canadians allowed our government to become so dependant on American exports that even when other countries come in to get a piece of our "pie" all we ever do is shoo then away because we dont wanna anger our big brother to the south.

It's really upsetting that it has been allowed, but in the end all countried worldwide are so intermingled with each other economically speaking that everyone is screwed one way or another, i mean come on,realistically if the US goes down, good luck showing me one country that is self sustaining enought to ride the coming storm that would ensue.....I cant think of one, save perhaps Isreal

reply to post by TH3ON3


From my understanding the trading has been suspended. I don't know how long they leave it that way. I think an hour before they reopen after suspending.

reply to post by Relentless


I really don't think we should worry,do you?I mean we still have that bright shinny indian head penny in the bottom of the vault at Fort Knox.
Some people say there use to be gold in that vault,till our government sold it all to China.Sarcasm over.
Trillions of dollars lost looks to be the starting point.If all these markets follow the trend....we have a hard road ahead.History shows again and again that bad economic situations start wars.

reply to post by iggster


Hey Iggster, don't we suspend also in event of 1000k fall?

reply to post by Jemison


It is a panic situation at this point. People have been calm and it's gotten us no where.

We watched as CONgress got the message to not vote for the bailout - the constiuency was overwhelming them on a 3 page bill that was released on a ?Friday night to be voted on Monday morning. Then we saw the Senate backdoor the bill (now hundreds of pages long) after it failed, all the while being told by a MAJORITY of their constituents not to do it. They didn't care. (Their offices were even hanging up on people who called in).

They did it anyway, they failed, the Country is failing (the reports coming in on this thread tonight show the world failing) it may already be too late. If we calmly wait this out when the hourglass is empty already instead of barraging them with pleas for sanity (that they will probably ignore too) is that going to help? I don't think so.

Will anything work now? Where is that thread of Loam's....ah - here ya go

www.abovetopsecret.com...

This is what we need now.

Originally posted by Jemison
Don't you think that in addition to asking people to write/call/e-mail everyone and their mother and making demands, Denninger should have said something to CALM people rather than incite near hysteria?

Jemison

You might have a point had not Denninger (along with a few others) been all over this while everyone else was saying "nothing to see here move along". It's gotten far worse than even his initial projections (1070 on S&P, and alot of everything else that has happened to date). Why the hell should he be trying to calm people down when his worst case scenario has been happening in real time here lately.

Originally posted by juniperberry
Even if the economy tanks, how is it you lose your country? Are you not still in it? Does it suddenly disappear with the car keys?

What does he mean by this? Is he suggesting that someone will invade? But everyone is in the same boat. I don't get it.

I'd like to re-post something I had previously posted on another thread on October 5/6, 2008. I believe the section I've bolded will answer your question.

But I also believe that the rest of the post has some significance as well, especially in light of more recent developments:




We are at war.

It has not been declared, publicly, as of yet.
Pray that the need to do so can be avoided.

If such is eventually declared, the result will be akin to, if not in fact, a third World War pitting the US against Russia and China.

In some sense, this is a "payback" for what the US actively percipitated within the USSR in the 1980's. The outcome, for the US, this time around, will more than likely, be no less wrenching for the structure of the US.

US officials are currently working feverishly just to maintain a degree of "containment" of the crisis foreign exploitation of our financial system allowed.

At this time, there is no guarantee that our "emergency" efforts to recover will be successful. In fact, even, and especicially amoung those advocating for the most panic-driven reponses (Bernake, Paulson, et al), there is the palapable fear that we are too late with far too little to effect the salvation of our nation.


Did you see the fear on their faces? Did you find it strange that our representatives in Congress were being asked to take measures rapidly, without question or debate? Did you find it odd that Both presidential candidates emerged from that meeting with the President and then voiced thier support of the basic plan (if not the "ornemants")?

Despite all the hype and spin, (I believe) this "Economic Crisis" has little or nothing to do with "Wall Street bankers": that is just a government-generated "spin" offered to the media (as) a distraction from the real truth.

As the "lesser" of two evils, so to speak.


Wall Street's perturbations are merely the "bullet" that has been fired into the heart of the US: the "Gun" is China, who supplied the capital. The "Assasin" is Russia, who supplied the plan and will pay off China in the form of cheap energy supplies in the Sino-(New)Soviet dominated future.


For a sense of what may very well be to come, review the opening ceremonies of the 2008 Olympics in Beijing. Pay particular attention to the exchange between President Bush and former President Putin.


More than the troubles in Georgia were discussed, you can be certain. And Mr. Bush comes away none too happy.

I believe Mr. Putin gave Mr Bush a "Final Warning", which was not heeded. And now, Putin has made good on his threat.



We are at War, and we have been hit with what may very well turn out to be a fatal blow.


Destroy an nation's economy, and you've destroyed its ability to influence the rest of the world; you have thus, effectively, in today's world, destroyed the nation itself.

Without actually firing a single shot.

"Wars" are not fought the way they used to. We've become much more sophisticated than that.
And so have our opponents.

What I don't think people are grasping is that IF this crash deepens, IF the US officially goes bankrupt (it has been for a long time, just not officially), and this goes for other countries, like Canada, the first things that will happen, ONCE IT'S OFFICIAL is:

Any government subsidized programs will cease. This includes educational grants, social security, food stamps, welfare, government subsidized medicine (medicare/medicaid here in the states). I don't know what else is subsidized in Canada, but here in the US we also have housing subsidies and others that just are not coming to mind right now.

Just like in the Great Depression, Gold will probably be confiscated. That means if you have used gold as a security, and they can find a record of the purchase, the government will order it to be turned in under penalty of law.

If you have an investment for retirement, 401K, Roth, IRA, etc which is held by the banks or the markets, if there is any value left to it, it will probably be confiscated by the government. They won't call it that of course, they will say something soothing, like, we are converting all your saved assets over to Government Bonds that will pay you when they mature. Then you get to hope that they do mature.

And a worst case scenario that many people are not considering, we may be attacked by a foreign nation on OUR OWN SOIL. The US still has lots of natural resources and a huge amount of land for growing food. It is not out of the realm of reality that another country, using war to pull themselves out of depression, will attack us HERE. Believe me when I say that we are not well loved in the world, even less so right now.

These are, of course, all worst case scenarios. But a wise person taught me long ago, prepare for the worst and hope for the best. You may choose to not believe that a very rough time is ahead, and that is your right. But please, at least have the sense to prepare, just in case all the "doom and gloom"ers are right.