True origins of the Illuminati.....

hmmm... for some reason my post isn't showing up!

I can see it here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

but when I check there's no page 6. Weird...

I have no need for frustration nor anger. I simply state the true nature of things, as i have seen them. If one wishes to inquire further i welcome it, if one wishes to depart this conversation because of "lack of evidence" i welcome it. I try to provide as much detailed information as allowed by my Shard, in hopes of (pardon the pun) shedding light on our true nature, and the global circumstance.

If anyone possesses any questions, please feel free to inquire. I check this thread every now and again.

reply to post by Maban

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Are there any art pieces, whether paintings are music that is of certain importance to the order? For example Mozart and Goethe were Illuminati, anything of special significance?

What traditions would you say were kept from the original Bavarian Illuminati?

PS: you should probably make your own Q&A thread as we could possibly derailed this one since it has little to do with the OP. (Illuminati pre-dating 1776) There's a Secret Society forum on ATS.


[edit on 22/3/08 by ConspiracyNut23]

reply to post by Maban

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You have responded with much accuracy. My question is this. Where do you fit in with the grand confederations of 1939 and 1940 that encompassed North and Sough America as well as Europe?


[edit on 22-3-2008 by Illahee]

reply to post by ConspiracyNut23

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Honestly to the best of my knowledge i don't think we posses any. The Icelandic Shard may possess such "traditions" being of closer relative descent from the "original" Bavarian Illuminati, however even then i highly doubt it; if there where any "significant ones" I could only speculate they have been lost to the testament of time. Adolph Knigge was quite disgusted with Wisehaupt's hypocrisy and therefore most likely abandoned most "original traditions" citing them as hypocritical or anachronistic in regards to the future form of the Shards. Even my shard doesn't hold a great deal of information about Knigge. However, we do know he was one who was headstrong in developing better ways, even if good ones already existed. Whatever "traditions" he may have created where later changed, or simply disregarded (most likely of probabilities.) I will attempt to contact a friend who is apart of the Icelandic Shard, but it may take sometime for him to respond. I will need to use internal secure communications because he is not publicly speaking like I. However because this is obviously not a "priority" message, it may take some time before he receives, and then responds to my message.

-p.s. I have considered starting such a "thread," however have found it... ill advised; given it will be prone to abuse, harassment, and infighting. Undoubtedly many will mock, ask unanswerable questions providing "proof" that what i represent is "illegitimate," and even other minor shards inserting misinformation for their own means, or simply for amusement, or even to detract form what i am voicing. We have dispensed with those shards that have either deviated from Kinigge's path, or continue to follow Wisehaupt's mentalities, we have found them to be disruptive, and sometimes downright violent. As i stated earlier, we have not "reformed" because of different points of views, and the inevitable infighting this causes. Thus, i remain in the background interjecting useful information to those willing to listen, think, and possibly reconsider their conceptions of our "existence." However, i will consider your proposal and discuss it with my fellow Illuminons; thank you for the idea, and unbiased support.


[edit on 24-3-2008 by Maban -To add the p.s.]

[edit on 24-3-2008 by Maban]

reply to post by Illahee

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I am attempting to understand to what you are specifically referring? The: "Universal Confederation of Orders, Societies and Fraternities of Initiation" or the historical "Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union." Or something entirely different? I apologize, but historical information is not kept readily on hand, we do not "honor," "traditions" or "origins" like most of the world has come to believe by one means or another. Illuminons are typically operating in the present with their every effort and focus on the ever evolving nature of the future, rather than the unhelpful nature of the past. We have taken the lessons from the past, internalized them, and move ever vigilantly into the future armed with those lessons. Regardless though, i will do my best to use all the resources at my disposal to answer your questions because for far too long has the Illuminati Shards been cast into an unfavorable and fraudulent shadow, one from wish i hope to help illuminate us from; excuse the pun if you will.

Well, so far I’ve not read absolutely anything in specific, practically or reasonably for existence!
First, thank you for posting here and sharing some personal info, no matter what your motives are. But you Sir, somehow disregarded so much “history” facts, other “spokesman” rather than whistleblowers, and pictures as well.
Unfortunately, I am short of time, and cannot expand my thoughts right now and I’ll shoot my Qs. Although the general user kind of get annoyed with a longer posts.

What is the general concept of being “illuminated”, as you pointed, it is knowledge, peace, philosophy, and everything concerned in common well. Well, isn’t it this found in every sacred book, movement, political and not such structures, doctrines and so forth? Basically, it is one of the most exploited human genomes or “weakness” in order to take your brain and approval! A simple psychology.

You somehow disregarded, or more accurately have not mentioned nothing about the esoteric, “sacred practices” (magic if you wish), the Symbolism, the source and the reason! How can you be an illuminated on, based on these states of yours, when not acknowledging these?

You simply cannot delimit the Illuminati form the points above. And the word “illuminati”, well how come the audiences go after this misleading word! Friends, look at all the movements, and secret societies (why still call them secret, when we tend to speak everything on them!) It is another des. therm like NWO, like the actual Bilderberg or Priory of Sion! Do not go after these obsolete meanings, arisen form a few jewish and european “historians” and religious leaders!

Ok now, back on subject. In all religion, philosophical movements (there aren’t any left though, now days, they all have dogmas and structures, regarded in the dic. as religions)
You can see absolutely the same symbolism; form the down of the human marks, to present day society. And they trend to interpret and implement differently into different religion and periods of time. And symbolism is directly and indirectly connected and bound to our existence and matter.
Moreover, the astrology, the sacred geometry, and all the knowledge, kept unimaginably far from the critical masses. You cannot be illuminated, you cannot develop or see beyond the factual realm if you are “ignorant”. And we are all ignorant.

There is such a vast stream of available information, some of which real, some disinformation. You can go into every church, afterward any public library, and get the idea of the human patterns.
I don’t know where I’ve gone whit this so far, out of order text of mine (I apologize). I’ve actually wanted to ask you some questions, and simultaneously to show to the fellows here a point of view.

About the “secret structure”, the only reason they are in such a form is namely not to keep the general public out, rather than its members/brothers. Reed the Plato! The triangle structure can be found everywhere in every company, organization, sports club, coffee shop, or government. Its purpose is only one. Otherwise, hypothetically/mathematically looked, to keep the humans out/in dark, first it is a mere waste of recourse, subsequently time and human destinies, and not lastly it’s in great contradiction with your agenda, doctrine etc. Doesn’t make sense!

Guys, all the hierarchy originations, clubs and so on, are corrupted believe it or not. You can trace it by reading an ex-masons blogs, ex-rotarians’ memoires, and every single person, dared to brake the “brotherhood’s” orders and dogmas. Come on! Do not have time to provide some links, but there thousands.

So , Maban, with all due respect, but you are either kept at the bottom, or deliberately follow your concepts! Cause, the Illuminati ARE satanic (in modern encyclopedias, I do not like these labels though, they start a mechanism in human’s perception) , the Illuminati ARE part and TOOL for achieving not a single goal, not a world domination, a knowledge- yes, but with all means. Which is not bad, apart from the “bad” rituals and practices, which tends to be harmful!

The ARE accessed and exploited by not one political figure and so one. So fellas, the word still remains “dirty”. They are nothing more than tool and a method. The concept and the lineage of Illuminati derives and dates prior the Egyptians, so please! But as I’ve said, they are a tool, like all other societies, used by the very same people, doing the very same thing, and obeying the very same dogmas!

There is a mountain of knowledge, which could change our lives and existence, not in a material, technological way, but in such to where we all can BE and DO. Not GODS, we are never to become such, and never ought to strive, that’s the line crossed by the illuminati and the rest. God is one! For me personally, it is still hard to find him, but I do my best, or think so, to feel and build for it..

Now, what Leo Zagami said.. YES, this man has provided us with a lot of traceable facts. Yes, he lies with his purpose, as he said (and the early CIA leaked MK docs on hte subject), it’s sufficiently just to let them “taste”, give them a tiny bit, in order to confuse their perceptions.

If you are familiar with his articles. He definitely miss and skip so much of the puzzle , and so called “Big Picture”. But not due to lack of understanding or some restriction, rather than deliberate intentions. Why, just look at his way of thought, logics, ample point of view and access, and regardless of his “personal characterization” , he denies every other aspect of “what could be going on, or have been so” apart from his testimony. This is in total controversy with him!

So, do not put the line just to his deployment of facts and structures, but you hardly can construct and expand to something more, with lack of information, a solid cornerstone. Be aware of false prophets, kings and fellas (the Bible /paraphrase).

There it is, my current mood expressed, I will try to participate in this thread as well.

Regards
ivo

(please, do except my apology for possible misdescriptions and nonsense, written due to my understanding of English)


[edit on 3-4-2008 by fisk]

reply to post by fisk

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fisk, I welcome skepticism and even criticism, but I am at somewhat of a loss to fully interpret your dilemmas with my ideology, and or comprehension of the Illuminati organization. I feel it necessary after condensing your posts to the "gist" of them, to simply conclude that you question "historical" evidence, and the "true" motives of the Illuminati.

Therefore, I wish to reaffirm my, as well as my Shard's stance in the global environment, and in historical contexts. The "Illuminati" as most people see it is an archaic and in most cases dark, devious entity whose ultimate goal is ubiquitous control of commerce and the populous in whole. This notion is derived from two sources; "historical" evidence, and that of slanted/jaded testimonies. One must come to understand the "true nature" of the "definition" of Illuminati before reasonable conclusions can be drawn, any preconceived notions assumed about the entity in whole would as a result, be in most entirety inaccurate. The Illuminati does not exist as many think it to, it is not one all powerful "secret society," and is in no way "unified." To aptly state the Illuminati exist in many pieces, with many doctrines, many opinions, many points of view, and many good and ill intentioned people. Once one identifies the great deal of diversity between these multiple “Illuminati” organizations, does the "whole picture" become more clear, and apparent. I am of a Shard, of the Canadian Shard, of the Icelandic Shard, who ties back to the Original Bavarian Illuminati; all by means of a man whose discontent, and disenfranchisement with the "Original Illuminati's" ideologies widely differed from his own. This "splinter" ideology was then carried to another generation before passing from one continent to another and in turn evolving over time. As time continued the "Shards" that evolved from this re-envisioned though process radically differed from its more ridged and archaic brethren the "remnants" that remained in the seat of Europe. As the Icelandic Shard's Ideologies radically evolved over the next hundred years many Remnants passed in and out of existence, and public consciousness. Organizations like the Spanish and Italian Illuminati are in all actuality of fact, not related to the Icelandic Shard at all besides the fact that they both differ wildly from their "Original" Bavarian roots. Many of the "Illuminati" organizations state implicitly that they are one "all seeing" omnipotent entity that will in one fell swoop (or over time) come to control the whole world. Well in fact this is what many could call "the deadliest form of lies." Born of half truths and twisted facts they do agree with historical evidence, and in turn create evidence of these interpretations. I would whole heartedly agree that indeed these "Illuminati Organizations" have devious intentions at heart, and do wish control (the truth), however they lack the capability and organization needed to fully do so (the lie). They are again Remnants, and per our definition pieces of the original Wisehaupt Illuminati that has remained "in-line" after some fashion or another, with the "old ways." Whereas, the descendants of the "Icelandic Shard" virtually abandoned the "Old Ways" nearly 170 years ago. To simply state, this Illuminati, is in a form not truly known to the majority populous of this world, and only those whom wish to insight fear and conflict, further these extremist and dark views. I most certainly do not condone, nor support these Remnant actions, or beliefs of either of these alleged “Illuminati” organizations. In all duality of fact, the Icelandic Shard, and its Shards work to disarm overly powerful or dangerous Illuminati Remnants.

[continued]

For a long while we have ignored as well as neglected the oversight of these "adolescent deviants," but have in the last three generations redoubled our efforts to bring them under control or disbandment, with moderating degrees of success.

Now I wish to fully address your "misgivings" about our "doctrines, dark magic, faith, and satanic beliefs." Do the Illuminati believe in and practice these things, yes... and no. Again one must consider the definition of Illuminati. The Remnants do, the Shards do not. The Remnants embraced the more historic, and in many cases darker aspects of the Illuminati Order. In some internally documented cases utterly twisting Illumination into what could only be described as a Void of Darkness. As the Remnants embraced the ritualistic and "traditional" Illuminati practices, the son of Knigge who was force to flee Europe (as far as historical documentation goes) by persecution of the catholic church for his scientific endeavors, He became a man of knowledge like that of his father and upon his father’s disenfranchisement, family disgust grew with the religious community (Catholic) and then fled to Iceland; where upon where the "true" form of the Illuminati was re-envisioned, rebuilt, and the light of illumination (true illumination) rekindled. Taking major portions of the Buddhist ways into practice alongside scientific discovery and evolution to further progress understanding. The Icelandic Shard continues to retain that name to this day, as a testament no to the struggles of the past, but to its failures and darkness and how ever present vigilance and oversight is necessary to ensure that true Illuminism is never mutilated again. Thus, the Icelandic Shard does not use the title "Illuminati" as one would however our ties to relate to the original Bavarian Illuminati, but does not reflect its shape nor values; if anything has purged all but the brightest of them. The reason upon which we still retain the ideological name "Illuminati" is by reference to the original Bavarian Illuminati origins, predating the actual formulation of the Bavarian Illuminati, and the ways of the Buddhists; so in whole the keepers of the Icelandic Shard and all its Shards are referred to as "Illuminons".

The Icelandic Shard and its Shards are mostly comprised of scientists, and then businessmen, and finally freethinkers and philosophers and the like. Regardless, the Icelandic Shard mainly plays host to the furtherance of scientific and business ideas and goals. One may ask how the Icelandic shard came to be the most powerful and influential? I would lovingly like to state by elegant and ingenious means, but it was in all actuality quite the opposite, and truly occurred by chance.

After about four generations (80 years) there was great discontempt amongst the ranks of the newly re-envisioned Illuminati, so to the point where minor infighting occurred, therefore the two leaders in major opposition agreed to go their separate ways. The first remained in Iceland, and the second remained in a sort of "nomadic state" mostly migrating through East Coast America for a short while before finally settling in the area of what is known now as Toronto, Canada. After a time the Icelandic shard become greatly disorganized and was near collapse, and the more nomadic Canadian Shard was too gasping its last breath's. In means of ensuring survival the two Shards reached out to each other sending emissaries to meet in America to discuss how to save their priceless ideologies. After a while it was determined that the risk of establishing new Shard's within the somewhat recently formed United States would be of far less risk than to attempt gaining support from an all ready "anti-Illuminati" Europe whose financial security was assured. Therefore all bets where hinged on the survival and success of the newly risen State of America.

[continued]

Over the next three generations or so America began to flourish both in influence and wealth bring much needed support to the Icelandic Shard and the Canadian Shard. The following generation spent a short time vying for power arguing that due to the solutions proposed by the Canadian Shard they could gain control of the newly re-re-founded Illuminati. However, discontent voices argued the ties to the original Bavarian Illuminati, the Icelandic Shard’s founder, and being the originator for the Canadian Shard itself it should maintain control. After a time agreements where made that the Canadian Shard would manage and oversee the three American Shards, and manage economic and political efforts, while the Icelandic Shard decided which organizations threatened the continuity of society (COS), globally that is and would bring economic and political pressure on them, to either change their ways for collapse them from within. The Icelandic Shard and its Shards maintain the precepts that noninterference is key and to only act when other organizations or individuals wish to adversely affect global stability or continuity. This is the point where is must emphasize our severe evolution beyond the “Old Ways” teachings of the original Bavarian Illuminati, almost entirely abandoning rituals, traditions, and out dated ways, for new and more effective ways to not control, but help a populous. Many are not aware but major philanthropic individuals in the world this very moment are members of this organization contributing major efforts in a aim to alleviate the world problems atop of maintaining stability. Our major ability to not only survive, but to flourish and help others is our ideological structure of noninterference, humanitarian aid, and corporate financial/influential support; has granted us untold advantages over more extremist and out dated Illuminati Remnants whom are unable to weather such ever evolving times.

I hope this helps better explain our origins/motivations/aims to better inform people who wish to seek better understanding about the "True Nature" of the Illuminati.

fisk, may i suggest a pre-writing of your posts to placate assistance in both your questions and counter arguments, therefore i can better provide a relevant answer, it is a method I ofter defer to, to ensure conciseness and accuracy. However, in the interim i will simply reply to that which I am sure you have questioned.

- Maban

Let's look at the word, that will be our first clue as to who they are and where they started. It means "illuminated ones" (not Inlightened ones), from the best of my knowledge. Now is there any other people known as this, or possibly a name for individuals similar to this? Yes all through out the history of mankind there have been people who "glowed" that had a presidence over others. Queztacoatl traveled with "mighty soildiers" and "Shining Ones", the book of the dead talks about one of the egyptian gods (Osiris I believe) going into a disk and the disk taking him into space where he talked to "Shining Ones". They appear throught history and they always the gods of the "gods". So where do they come from and what are they? Well they originally came from Heaven, but they fell from grace. they are Fallen Angels. There goal is to have mankind worship them and for us to serve them in a battle agianst the creator of all things, God/YHWH/Elohim/Yeshua. That is who the anti-Christ will be and his mission, to have the image of God (mankind), fight against it's creator.

So there ya go, that's the short version lol.

-Jimmy

reply to post by jimmyjackblack

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You may in fact be right, but it bugs me when people state their personal opinions as facts, especially when they don't present much evidence. Please don't do that.

reply to post by whitecastle

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Well most personal opinions are stated as fact on this forum, we don't have any solid showable proof of anything, "they" have made sure it doesn't get out in the public. All I can do is show what I have learned from my own personal research.
Plus I don't think I've really stated my own opinions as being fact, have I? If I did, sorry, but I didn't realize it. I don't know these things to be %100 true, but I'm pretty sure they are, so in the long run all I can say is that it is my personal opinion and you can take it as fact or not, you have free will, but I believe we can at least get the ball rolling on getting the truth out there more than what we are now by using the previously stated plan.

reply to post by jimmyjackblack

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I was under the impression that the Illuminati came from the Enlightenment period of the 16 - 17thC.

Age of Enlightenment

Its actualy talked about in a lot more detail in Stan Deyos two books The Cosmic Conspiricy and The Vindicator Scrolls.
But yea apparently it came about in these times and they were made up of: Royal Family members, Bankers, the Rich, Masons, Politicians etc...

But yea, theres no evidence that I have on the subject at the moment. But if I find some I will post.

-fm

Now Maban, tell the truth, its 50/50 light and dark each keeping balance and the other ideology in check. Am I not correct?

I am at a loss to finding a stable definition for the word ' Conspiracy'.
The majority of the information I have seen so far ( not as much as I need yet...) Is far more fact than fiction, and as an Old Frat, a witness to
much I know just by accident is enough information ... another You had to be there stories. Maybe, unless your the one remembering things.
I am a remember-er. I think I am in the early stages of Alzheimer's crap.
My Brother is also a remember-er. He is ten years younger than I.
We don't stand a chance.. It gallops in our family. Everybody gets it. I have trouble with near time but crystal clear long time. So does He.
My brother turned me on to 'Above Top Secret' Where I first heard the name the illuminati has not bothered to hear or react to in any way, The Bilderberg Group. There are few facets of our world that is not only owned by this group, they are used by this group to play with our lives, our government, our very existence is controlled. WE MUST START LONG AGO. Every adult should be exposed to this information. I fear that there is no way to stop them now and I pray that they can be ended.

reply to post by funky monk

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It is true the "Bavarian Illuminati" started in this period; If anything is "generally accepted" about the Illuminati, this is it.

reply to post by Illahee

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Even within my own Shard, some agree some disagree. Some argue universal balance is necessary, if not inevitable. Others argue that the light will prevail no matter the future circumstance. I personally endorse the fading darkness ideologies given some of the "root" beliefs, as well as evidence from pre-foundation (Pre-Bavarian Illuminati) times. I will say one commonality amongst Illuminons is the teachings of the past, rapidly colliding with the subtle and sweeping changes of the future; balance is a great idea. However, in observation it is more of a pendulum, extremely evil at one point, and extremely good at another, slowly working it's way towards a result (i.e. light/enlightenment or balance). So coming from the "all seeing" Illuminon, I don't know; none of us really do for sure. We are merely stewards, we do not hold all the answers, only those necessary for our survival and the fulfillment of our duties.

-edited for typo

[edit on 6-4-2008 by Maban]