Thanks for the info, I am learning a lot, we should do a forum on ancient myth starting with the simerian tablets and do you know that the symbol for medicine and the genetic code was found on the simerian tablets very interesting.

Originally posted by marg6043
Thanks for the info, I am learning a lot, we should do a forum on ancient myth starting with the simerian tablets and do you know that the symbol for medicine and the genetic code was found on the simerian tablets very interesting.

We already have an ancient mysteries forum... some topics tend to cover more than one topic area though and it gets kinda iffy as to where you should post it... but I think that a thread on ancient myths would fit in well there, that is if one like it doesn't already exist in that forum... we might try the search function

[Edited on 19-3-2004 by NephraTari]

OK, I WILL LIKE THAT VERY MUCH IF SOMEBODY STARTS ONE I WILL LIKE TO CONTRIBUTE.

We should make this into a research project.

Originally posted by mcs1627
We should make this into a research project.

Yes that was my thinking as well. A full blown research project with a team of at least 3 or 4 people working on the history of the illuminati and tracing back an previous affiliations or possible aliases they went by prior to the 1700's

Consider the possibility that almost all conspiracies are bogus, with the intention to mislead and disinformation. I count UFO's, the New World Order and just about any thing else on the fringe as mis information.

In order for me to come to this conclusion, I am guided by one principle: Any real conspiracy would not reach the light of day in the media, nor on the Intenet, for that matter. The government controls the whole thing!

So...the big question for me is why the government allows and in some cases sponsors chaos in thought?

The only thing I can come up with is diversion. In my opinion the governent is trying to hide something that would be so devastating if it was made known; for example, devastating enough to cause civil outcry and didobedience.

Type in David Booth in google and see what he has to say. Also check out wormwood. Wormwood is a multy nation group watching the skys for the sign of meteorites.

Originally posted by JoeK
Consider the possibility that almost all conspiracies are bogus, with the intention to mislead and disinformation. I count UFO's, the New World Order and just about any thing else on the fringe as mis information.

In order for me to come to this conclusion, I am guided by one principle: Any real conspiracy would not reach the light of day in the media, nor on the Intenet, for that matter. The government controls the whole thing!

So...the big question for me is why the government allows and in some cases sponsors chaos in thought?

The only thing I can come up with is diversion. In my opinion the governent is trying to hide something that would be so devastating if it was made known; for example, devastating enough to cause civil outcry and didobedience.

Type in David Booth in google and see what he has to say. Also check out wormwood. Wormwood is a multy nation group watching the skys for the sign of meteorites.

Interesting post. The government can control many things but personal will and thought is yet beyond their reach to my knowledge. Bits of info have indeed surfaced though often in the form of fiction which is how I believe it slipped through the cracks unnoticed to begin with or was allowed... later people linked the reality of the topics together to realize that there was some truth in the fiction and thus a conspiracy is born.
As for the Wormwood group I find that very interesting because there is a comet due to come close to us in 2012 named wormwood as well as the fact that the bible mentions a star falling called wormwood that will poison the water in the book of revelations in the king james version of the bible.

Yes I have done a bit of research, and yet I cannot dismiss all conspiracy theories by logic that the government would not allow it to leak.. leaks happen all the time my friend.

i strongly believe that the illuminati are much older than the weishaupt thing.

a lot older thant the knights templar thing, as well.

the illuminutties go back to the days of Mystery babylon school, or al-qaeda of secret societies. you like that tie in? I did.

the illuminutties go back to the days of Mystery babylon school

That's highly unlikely (actually it's impossible). The Illuminati were founded for the purpose of gathering men who accepted the Enlightenment, which did not occur until the 18th century. Even the very name "Illuminati" refers to the Enlightenment.
The Babylonian Mysteries were a much different story; they too accepted the principles of science, but their doctrines were much more primitive and superstitious.
As an aside, the most famous priest of the Babylonian Mysteries was actually not even a Babylonian; it was the Hebrew prophet Daniel (see Daniel 5:11-12).

Fiat Lvx.

[Edited on 22-3-2004 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by Masonic Light

the illuminutties go back to the days of Mystery babylon school

That's highly unlikely (actually it's impossible). The Illuminati were founded for the purpose of gathering men who accepted the Enlightenment, which did not occur until the 18th century. Even the very name "Illuminati" refers to the Enlightenment.
The Babylonian Mysteries were a much different story; they too accepted the principles of science, but their doctrines were much more primitive and superstitious.
As an aside, the most famous priest of the Babylonian Mysteries was actually not even a Babylonian; it was the Hebrew prophet Daniel (see Daniel 5:11-12).

Fiat Lvx.

[Edited on 22-3-2004 by Masonic Light]

That accepted history is precisely what I am calling into question with this thread. I do not buy into the idea that Weishaupt invented the illuminati all on his own nor that they were NEW in the 1800's I believe that their history dates back much farther, they just weren't discovered openly until then.

Originally posted by marg6043
Thanks for the info, I am learning a lot, we should do a forum on ancient myth starting with the simerian tablets and do you know that the symbol for medicine and the genetic code was found on the simerian tablets very interesting.

Also, the "Helix" is a product of careful observation and positional recording of the movement of the Sun. The winding shape is the source of the "snake", c4000BC - Megalithic. Recall Caduceus.

The true "origins" were (literally) cemented in Sumer. The first initiates had cognition of the prime numbers and the significance of the triad, especially the summation of the powers of 3:

1 + 3 + 9 + 27 + 81 etc.

Note the importance of 13, 40 etc. Also the square (11^2 = 121). Following the sequence, the 364 sum should be recognisable to those who have studied (ancient) astronomy (the Sun).

The triad also offers an important formulaic relationship with Golden Ratio and sacred geometry.

[Edited on 30-3-2004 by Simerian]

[Edited on 30-3-2004 by Simerian]

As for the Wormwood group I find that very interesting because there is a comet due to come close to us in 2012 named wormwood as well as the fact that the bible mentions a star falling called wormwood that will poison the water in the book of revelations in the king james version of the bible.

The King James Bible should be discounted except for a cursory reference to Biblical texts. You would do well to find an antiquarian Greek or Hebrew version so that translations can be checked with a knowledgeable source. It is surprising to see so many assumptions about the supposed text. For example of the New Testament, "Carpenter" is written no-where. Check the Greek and be prepared for a new route of learning. Remember that "Revelation" is a sub-set of the entire text and taken out of context. However, the W.O.B. *may* be an allegorical reference to the rise of Paganism and the preminence of the Morning/Evening Star, representing the cult of fertility since the dawn of recorded time (c5000 years).

Lat: artemisia absinthium, that is, "Wormwood", as an emblem of poisonous bitterness. Comets were regarded as harbingers of doom and pestilence.

[Edited on 30-3-2004 by Simerian]

Originally posted by valnrick
has anyone read the illuminatus trilogy. books:
The eye in the pyramid
The Golden Apple
Leviathan

Good ol' Robert Anton Wilson! Great stuff, brilliant spoof.

If the Illuminati are a group of people who are in near total control of the world why is it that they would let their secrets escape to the general public? That my friends is a poor way to run an uber secret new world order. My other question is if these people are in control behind the scenes why do they not take full power and run things? Your theories about their existence are sketchy at best It isnt that I do not believe there are high level Masons in positions of great power as is most of the brotherhood, but I dont think we know who these men are save for those in public view. I ask again, how could such a secret powerful orginization let their most important secrets filter into public record. Seems far fetched. good luck in your studies and if you were to find some hard evidence it would be great for the world.

Fruor veritas est fruor opulentia

"That my friends is a poor way to run an uber secret new world order"...

in vino veritas

Aero is, of course quite correct. Just as it is not possible to define Freemasonry as a single homogeneity, so the concept of a unified "Illuminati" is irrelevant.

The fact is, any group under discussion within these message boards is by definition "not" secret, irrespective of the lack of definitive knowledge about them. The "Illuminati" as discussed is just a convenient metaphor to describe a membership of politically (in the general sense) motivated individuals without recourse to conceptually democratic election or control.

The question, perhaps, should be concerned with whether these groups were "Illuminati" prior to gaining positions of power, or whether they merely assume alliances with like minded groups and individuals to maintain power once gained.

The 2nd scenario is most likely and simply denotes a continuance of human endeavour at ALL levels of humanity. Golf clubs can be considered as "Illuminati" since they foster restricted access to like-minded individuals.

A supposed "secret" society has one specific trait that separates it from mere social networking (however politically radical it may be). That is: "doctrine". One a doctrine is perceived and proven, then you have evidence of a "grand plan", possibly promoted by a secret group. This does not constitute evidence of a single author though!

caveat emptor

Originally posted by Aero
If the Illuminati are a group of people who are in near total control of the world why is it that they would let their secrets escape to the general public? That my friends is a poor way to run an uber secret new world order. My other question is if these people are in control behind the scenes why do they not take full power and run things? Your theories about their existence are sketchy at best It isnt that I do not believe there are high level Masons in positions of great power as is most of the brotherhood, but I dont think we know who these men are save for those in public view. I ask again, how could such a secret powerful orginization let their most important secrets filter into public record. Seems far fetched. good luck in your studies and if you were to find some hard evidence it would be great for the world.

Fruor veritas est fruor opulentia

Tell me what would be considered "HARD" evidence.
when you really think about it, we live in a world where there is no such thing. Anything can be manufactured, so I ask you what you honestly think would convince you.

For me, it is a gut feeling. that is my hard evidense.
You can sense when something is true. My gut tells me that the society is very real but we do not know the truth behind them or their intentions. Not even close yet.

scream illuminati when you not even illuminated

-cage "muppet show"

wouldn't it make sense for the illuminati to let information about themselves slip out? what better way than to have this outlandish story of a one world order slip to the public? of course no one would buy said story! a one world order? not in a million years! and that's where they have you...standing naked in the shadow of their covert and overt empire, as you seek salvation, but through what? their empire, of course! they shall take everything that that we hold sacred and use it against us, to coerce us into the corner, until the only fight left in us is in our words...obviously, the "illuminated ones" will not be outright in their acquisition of power , which if they were foolish to do that, without any catclysmic event to occur or coincide with said seizure of the "throne," people would uprise...hopefully. of course, in recent years, any one with a vision and that extra dollar to bring their dream into focus are said to be a public abberation, and should be treated as such..."basketcase." they claim the support of diversity, all while disseminating hate through their other various public soapboxes...ever question the double standard that exists? but as long as the public has their mccrappy meal and the oh so real contrived melodramatics that exist within the "dedlite," not a single thought shall be put into the possibility of life outside the box that they themselves have put up in their mind .

How old is the Illuminati? Well, by looking at it from a biblical perspective, as I always try and do, we are talking about several millenia. Now, not that they have always been KNOWN as the Illuminati, or called that, but they have been around.

In the bible, in different parts throughout, it speaks about nations and leaders that are really run by someone or people "behind the scenes." Kings and leaders would be the apparent figures of their respective nations, but those who are behind the scenes are responsible for pulling the strings and calling the shots. However, those responsible for this are not just people, but supernatural. They are fallen angels and members of satan's host. Angels can appear as humans, so they could be advisors to these leaders with huge influence like on a mind control level, or they could simply appear to some leaders as their actual selves and scare the crap out of them and tell them what to do. For those of you who have read the WOT series by Robert Jordan, you could think of it kind of like the Forsaken who get themselves in positions and manipulate the different nations. Those who believe in what the bible says, or those who are familiar with it know that satan has been tampering with humans, and sabotaging what God intended for us since day one. And just how satan tempts us and influences us on an individual level, he also does on national and societal levels. Satan's goal has been to alter our intended course and to shift it to one where he can do the most damage, basically with a world government through the figure known as the antichrist. And he will realize his goal at some point, as revelation tells us, so it seems it is inevitable. It makes sense since he is known as the prince of earth and so he can exercise all his influence and can direct world events. Not completely, but enough. Also, he knows he's going to be destroyed in the end, as revelation also points out, so he's like an animal backed into the corner. He has nothing to lose and all he can do is bring down as many of us with him as he can.

Not all nations are under sway of the fallen, but only those that are key. Nations that can affect the course of history. So the U.S. right now probably, well, almost definitely is being affected right now, and many others I assume too, just as many of the past have. Not to say that the whole life of the U.S. or other nations were controlled, but at a certain point. I would say though that our country is a bit tougher to direct, just because of the different branches and levels of government we have.

So the group known today as the illuminati is a brain-child of satan's. I'm not saying they are all fallen angels, I would bet that most are actual people. They are a society of elitists and of those in power. They are probably of the occult and worship satan. Or, possibly, they have no idea that they are actually doing satan's work. But most likely they do. At first, it seems very hard to believe that a society of people throughout centuries could be so successful at maintaining power and directing the course of the world. Actually, it seems impossible. But it becomes feasible when you realize who's behind it.